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Xifio;3662939 said:lol, yes! actually, since NM only have one stadium, I'd say dump 'em ... announce that Toyota Stadium (Frisco) will be expanded, and call it Texas 2022 ...
Bobby;3663185 said:Maybe I'm desensitized to commercial stuff but I'd rather it be paid for privately than out of the public coffers so I'm totally fine with that.
you seem to have changed your pathetic, sorry, apathetic disposition ... why? what prompted this?Mandieta6;2960214 said:the only thing I care about regarding the stadium is the action in them.
Xifio;2959678 said:haha, some of the negativity is hilarious ... but then again the 2022 World Cup is next week, right? if only Qatar had a decade or more to develop special policy strategies to deal with the alcohol-inclusive festival mentality that foreigners will be willing to shell out bags of cash for ...
Xifio;3663485 said:and looking through the thread, I'm surprised you are even interested in "the issue at hand":you seem to have changed your pathetic, sorry, apathetic disposition ... why? what prompted this?
Xifio;2960021 said:as for bashing Qatar: please continue ... I think it's great they have a chance to prove doubters wrong ... there's a long way to go to do that; so, by all means, have your fill during that time ...
Xifio;3663476 said:let's not pretend every prosperous nation wasn't/isn't built on slave labour ... if a nation has the capacity to host a World Cup at a moment's notice, it's a luxury built on the backs of hundreds of thousands of slaves who gave their lives ... no prosperous nation has any moral high ground on the issue ...
SOURCE1,000 Indian workers die in World Cup host Qatar in 4 years
Almost 1,000 Indians have died in Qatar in the last four years, with over 500 workers dying in the past two- and-a-half years alone, according to an AFP report. Qatar is the host of the 2022 football World Cup.
While some human rights groups have latched on to the figure to highlight Qatar's allegedly abysmal rights record, the Indian embassy said there was nothing abnormal about it considering the large Indian community there and the fact that many of these deaths were due to natural causes.
The Indian community in Qatar is the single-largest expatriate group. According to the foreign ministry, at the end of 2012, the number of Indians there was estimated at close to 500,000, approximately 26% of Qatar's population of 1.9 million. The majority of Indians in Qatar is engaged in unskilled and semi-skilled work and belongs to low or lower-middle income groups.
The information was obtained by AFP through an RTI plea filed with the Indian embassy in Qatar. The report quoted an official of the International Trade Union Confederation as saying that the data showed an "exceptionally high mortality rate". The Indian embassy, however, said it was inappropriate to use these figures in a distorted manner, even praising Doha for taking care of the interests of Indian workers.
"Further, considering the large size of our community, the number of deaths is quite normal — 233 in 2010, 239 in 2011, 237 in 2012, 241 in 2013 and 37 in 2014. Most of the deaths are by natural causes," the embassy said.
"Qatar's human rights record is under scrutiny like never before as it cranks up building work ahead of the 2022 World Cup, most of which will be done by migrant labour from South Asia," the AFP report said. "Amnesty International said in November that workers were being treated like 'animals', and urged football's world governing body, FIFA, to press Doha to improve conditions for foreign labourers," it added.
Xifio;3663496 said:the technology development, as needed, has had 3 and a half years from the bid decision, and thus 8 and a half years to go ... it's stupid to suggest any conclusion is apt so prematurely ...
distant past, recent past, both relevant when the fruits of any slave labour are still being enjoyed ... not, it turns out, that it applies to Qatar (recent past) as it does to the Colonials or the US (more distant past) ...Mandieta6;3663549 said:The fact that prosperous nations WERE built on slave labor is irrelevant.
wow, did you even read the article? 1000 people died in 4 years, and they happened to live on a work visa in Qatar, which happens to be a World Cup host ... it had nothing to do with anything sporting reason; the story spun it as such ...Mandieta6;3663549 said:At this day and age, 1000 people dying for sporting reasons is ridiculous. You're legitimising those deaths by saying there have been 1000s of deaths in other places, too. OK, does that mean there shouldn't be an outcry when that happens now? Your point is stupid.
I said apathetic ... the preceding "pathetic" was a facetious prod at your general patheticism -- though, as noted, not pertaining to your initial apathy ...Mandieta6;3663549 said:It also doesn't address my point that you're just misrepresenting what I said. I specifically asked you tell me why my stance in the post you half-quoted was pathetic, do you have a response? It seems I need to explicitly ask you to address an issue or else you avoid it.
your view comes from an outdated stereotypical view of the region ...ShiftyPowers;3663558 said:They are obviously not going to come through on their technological promises as the technology still does not exist and this is why the World Cup is being moved to the fucking Winter. Plus we're now down to 8 stadiums instead of 12. 8 years out and they've already backed off nearly everything they promised. We're going to be left with a joke of World Cup in a backwater Middle Eastern dictatorship that cost thousands of lives and is in fucking winter. Legacy of the worst major sports competition host ever, perhaps.
What a load of bs. People were against a Qatar for a whole range of reasons. The fact they had to build a load of new stadia being one, and being directly related to the working conditions - especially when you throw in their medieval social views, which you eluded to above, but distanced from the issue as best you could.Xifio;3663496 said:wonderful? lol ... people were opposed to the Qatar bid due to their über-conservative political and social views ... you pretending that it somehow included working conditions is hilarious horsesh!t ...
Easy way out. You're really standing firm on this one? Not willing to admit that the bid was awarded based on money and false promises. The whole point is that we don't know what stadium technology will hold, how can Qatar include something in their bid that may or may not exist?? The decision will have to be made well before the 8 years is up too - in fact, these systems would have to be included in the initial construction of the stadiums, so your argument is already invalid.the technology development, as needed, has had 3 and a half years from the bid decision, and thus 8 and a half years to go ... it's stupid to suggest any conclusion is apt so prematurely ...
Xifio;3663578 said:distant past, recent past, both relevant when the fruits of any slave labour are still being enjoyed ... not, it turns out, that it applies to Qatar (recent past) as it does to the Colonials or the US (more distant past) ...
wow, did you even read the article? 1000 people died in 4 years, and they happened to live on a work visa in Qatar, which happens to be a World Cup host ... it had nothing to do with anything sporting reason; the story spun it as such ...
I said apathetic ... the preceding "pathetic" was a facetious prod at your general patheticism -- though, as noted, not pertaining to your initial apathy
your view comes from an outdated stereotypical view of the region ...
if a winter World Cup is more viable, then so be it -- don't resist change ... they can always make indoor stadia instead ... if they can build an indoor ski slope in Dubai, they can build indoor football stadia in Qatar ... why isn't that Plan A? THAT is a good question ...
I'd prefer to see the region given a chance to step their game up ... if they f*ck up AND learn from it in time, then good, they leave a positive legacy ... if not, then they leave a benchmark by which the next nation wanting a chance to prove itself worthy of the opportunity must significantly surpass ...
I call BS on that ...Alex;3663750 said:What a load of bs. People were against a Qatar for a whole range of reasons. The fact they had to build a load of new stadia being one, and being directly related to the working conditions - especially when you throw in their medieval social views, which you eluded to above, but distanced from the issue as best you could.
they volunteered to have the spotlight of the world shone on their nation, which voluntarily destroys any façade they may be keeping, pulls back the curtain on the way they work, and forces them to comply with standards established by United Nations mandate as acceptable standards of living and working conditions ... I'm standing firm on giving new regions the chance to host events of this magnitude, and deliver an amazing experience ... if you've ever been to Dubai, or to the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, you wouldn't doubt that the progressive nations of the region know how to deliver an event with unprecedented pomp and panache ...Alex;3663750 said:You're really standing firm on this one? Not willing to admit that the bid was awarded based on money and false promises.
jesus ... I talked about the moral high ground, and how no "first world" nation has it ... how did these prosperous nations become prosperous enough to already have amazing infrastructure that they don't have to build much new, but just improve?Mandieta6;3663777 said:How am I supposed to be outraged at things I was not alive to witness? The solution isn't to disregard slave labour now but to react to it always. Should the racist taunts of football players not be condemned because worse affronts have taken place in the past? Your stance is ridiculous.
what different sides? it's an Indian publication quoting Indian officials from the Indian embassy in Qatar relating to mortality figures of Indians in Qatar ...Mandieta6;3663777 said:Yes, I did, and I appreciate the fact that the story has different sides to it. While the source suggests the figures are normal, there are others that dispute this. Why should I just take your article as the voice of truth? It is just as reasonable to say that is you and your source spinning the story as mere coincidence. There are no contrasting figures in that article or any reasoning to justify their claims, either.
yeah, coz all leagues play at the same time ...Mandieta6;3663777 said:A winter WC doesn't just go against tradition. It disrupts the leagues (and would disrupt them for several seasons)
ohh, if only they had a few weeks notice to forecast their vacation time ... what? they'll have a few years notice? well, whaddayaknow!Mandieta6;3663777 said:is less comfortable for fans (most people get their largest share of time off at summer)
LOL! you're contradicting yourself ... if the leagues are disrupted, then they'd be running at the same time wouldn't they? but somehow it wouldn't result in less viewers or less money for them, but it would for the World Cup, which everyone will know is coming years ahead of time?Mandieta6;3663777 said:and will conflict with other sports and TV coverage. Less viewers, less money, everybody loses.
no? then their strategy to enforce a temporary change so their region may participate in a system that would otherwise keep them out worked ... have fun complaining about it ...Mandieta6;3663777 said:Had Qatar proposed a winter WC they wouldn't have gotten the WC.