Manchester United Thread [2011/2012]

[Sir Calumn]

It makes sense though because the Man Utd bias in English sports journalism is ludicrous, I bet they were all spitting blood at having to vote for van Persie and wishing they could think of just one excuse to say Rooney instead...

 

[Sir Calumn]

Defense was not a big problem this season TBH. We have the 2nd best defense in terms of goals conceded I think. De Gea ****ed up in a few games but he played very well and made up for it. Great buy. I can't think of anyone else we could've bought.

Really? That surprises me, I had assumed United fans were still fuming about De Gea?

The three differences between this season and your title winning seasons seems to me to be a) Ferdinand and Vidic past it and too injury prone with those taking their place not nearly as good b) the worlds most reliable goal keeper replaced with one of the most unreliable c) the aging midfielders and lack of replacements.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Well, Hargreaves did the holding midfield role for half a season only.

If it makes you feel any better, we spent that lovely gift of money you gave us on Franck Ribery

 

[Pogba4Now]

Really? That surprises me, I had assumed United fans were still fuming about De Gea?

The three differences between this season and your title winning seasons seems to me to be a) Ferdinand and Vidic past it and too injury prone with those taking their place not nearly as good b) the worlds most reliable goal keeper replaced with one of the most unreliable c) the aging midfielders and lack of replacements.

Last time I checked (few weeks ago), we were the second best defense with City being first. Vidic's absence was obviously felt but Evans/Ferdinand did surprisingly well and De Gea even won the United player of the month in March voted by United fans. Would definitely not call him the "world's least reliable". He is still bad in dealing with crosses but he saved our asses off with fingertip saves several times.

Problem was not defense this year. The problem was lack of hunger and lack of creativity in the center. I agree with (c). Definitely one of the reasons of our failure. Scholes has really been great but Giggs has sucked big time.

EDIT: Just checked. We have conceded 33 goals this season and only City has conceded less (27). So as the stats indicate, our defense and GK did well.

If it makes you feel any better, we spent that lovely gift of money you gave us on Franck Ribery

 

[Sir Calumn]

You make a fair point, I actually didnt realize that you have let in less goals this season than last. I dont know, maybe your defence doesnt seem as solid. It seems to me that, whereas in recent past seasons you have had a world class defender in every position (except maybe right back) as at least your first choice, this season even your first choices are either aging and injury prone or young and unproven. Afterall, defensive stats are relative. I have been less impressed by your defensive performances and I think the team has less confidence in the defenders. Certainly, I used to covet your defenders, now I dont at all, even considering what we've got.

Goalkeeper, well, he may not be the most unreliable in the world but it must be a big shock for a team to go from 6 years of knowing they can rely on their goalkeeper 100% to being more than slightly unsure.

 

[Help?]

This always happens when you lose a world class keeper however. How many players on the level of VDS are out there? He was probably top 3 keeper, top 5 without any arguments. De Gea will only learn and get better and despite a rocky start, the second half of the season he has been outstanding, bailing us from a lot of situations.

Our defense has indeed been weak, but that is really because we lost our captain Vidic. I would see similar problems at Chelsea or City if they lost Terry or Kompany for the second half of the season. This has definitely been a transition year as we virtually lost half of our team and in reality have been losing players for the past 3 years. But the young guys we have are as good as any youngesters out there, then problem is they don't have a central midfielder that can play 2 full games every week and dictate the games. There is nothing new, our defense is fine, wings are fine, forwards are fine, but the most crucial - midfield is just terrible (given that Scholes can't carry the team every single game of every single week).


Just compare us to Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal who in the past tended to be somewhere near United. They found dealing with City much much tougher, so we are not THAT bad and losing the title on GD with 89 points to someone who outspent you by so much is very respectable I'd say.

What's not respectable is to **** it all up and throw an 8-point lead with 6 games to go in a schedule that is seemingly easier than your rivals and for that alone this season has been a huge failure.

 

[Help?]

So apparently in the last 5 years, Stoke City has higher net spending on transfers than we did. Chelsea outspent us three times over...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

What about arsenal?

 

[Pogba4Now]

Arsenal has won nothing in the last 8 years.

 

[Help?]

What about arsenal?

Manchester City are top, with £418.9m. Then come Chelsea, on £155.9m. Liverpool's outlay is £83.3m, Tottenham Hotspur's £66.7m and Manchester United's 51.6m. Arsenal? They are one of only four clubs who have actually made a profit, in their case £31.4m. It is no wonder their fans can sometimes be heard imploring the board to spend

 

[ShiftyPowers]

So you're even with the other non-sugar daddy clubs. What do you expect? This has always been resentment that you can't be Chelsea, jealousy over the City situation. Pathetic. Did you hear the global economy crashed in the last five years?

 

[rony31]

I'm sick of hearing United fans turning to our spending when just admitting that they **** the bed this season isn't an option for them. Ferguson goes out and says teams like City have changed the face of the transfer market and all their fans jump on his dick and start saying the same. Newsflash, you lot have spent a ****load of money as well and wouldn't have been able to sustain your success without it. Yes, you created a ****load of talent out of nothing ala Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, etc. You've also spent a ****load of money over the years. Us getting taken over by Arab billions isn't far off of you getting put out into the public market back in the 90s and having people invest in your club. That was also an injection of cash flow.

Of course, I cant come out and deny that City have spent a ton of money, because we have, but United fans need to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting all high and mighty like you've never spent a bloody dime.

GK: De Gea (18M)
DR: Jones (17M)
DC: Ferdinand (29M)
DC: Vidic (7M)
DL: Evra (5.5M)
MC: Scholes (0M)
MC: Carrick (18M)
AML: Young (20M)
AMC: Valencia (16M)
AMR: Nani (22M?)
FC: Rooney (26M)

Total: 178.5M

Not to mention Berba's 30M on the bench, and Chicharito and Smalling were each about 10M.

Turn to City's typical starting XI:

GK: Hart (0.6M)
DR: Richards (0M)
DC: Kompany (6M)
DC: Lescott (22M)
DL: Clichy (7M)
MC: Barry (12M)
MC: Yaya (24M)
AML: Nasri (24M)
AMR: Silva (24M)
FC: Tevez (25M)
FC: Aguero (38M)

Total: ~182.6M

Granted our bench is stacked, but in reality, what right do any of you have to complain? Even with adjustments, our best XI is probably at most 20-30M more than yours, which isn't nearly as much as one would assume given your bitching and moaning.

Are we rich? Yes. Do we spend because we are? Yes. Are you rich? Yes. I really hope we don't cock up against QPR so I can start parading around about how money CAN and did buy success.

Edit: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...t-manchester-city-buying-glory-now-thats-rich

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Oooh, that's fun!

GK: Neuer (22m)
DR: Lahm (0)
DC: Badstuber (0)
DC: Boateng (13.5m)
DL: Alaba (0)
MC: Kroos (0)
MC: Schweinsteiger (0)
AMC: Muller (0)
AMR: Robben (24)
AML: Ribery (25)
ST: Gomez (30)

Total: 114.5m

Hummels (0)

Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, United have whiffed on their youth in the last 5-10 years and that's their biggest problem. When you fail to notice the few exceptional youth players each club is gifted with it creates a knock-on effect where you have to buy players for the positions those promoted youth players should have held. How much better would you be with Pique and Rossi? Bayern's biggest problem for the past 2 years has been the defense, and we finally spent a **** load of time and money tapping up Boateng last summer to solve the problem although the defense could still be better. Mats Hummels was a product of the youth system that Klinsmann sold who would have solved those problems at no cost. He's on his way to being one of the best defenders in the world.

 

[adedawson]

I'm sick of hearing United fans turning to our spending when just admitting that they **** the bed this season isn't an option for them. Ferguson goes out and says teams like City have changed the face of the transfer market and all their fans jump on his dick and start saying the same. Newsflash, you lot have spent a ****load of money as well and wouldn't have been able to sustain your success without it. Yes, you created a ****load of talent out of nothing ala Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, etc. You've also spent a ****load of money over the years. Us getting taken over by Arab billions isn't far off of you getting put out into the public market back in the 90s and having people invest in your club. That was also an injection of cash flow.

Of course, I cant come out and deny that City have spent a ton of money, because we have, but United fans need to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting all high and mighty like you've never spent a bloody dime.

GK: De Gea (18M)
DR: Jones (17M)
DC: Ferdinand (29M)
DC: Vidic (7M)
DL: Evra (5.5M)
MC: Scholes (0M)
MC: Carrick (18M)
AML: Young (20M)
AMC: Valencia (16M)
AMR: Nani (22M?)
FC: Rooney (26M)

Total: 178.5M

Not to mention Berba's 30M on the bench, and Chicharito and Smalling were each about 10M.

Turn to City's typical starting XI:

GK: Hart (0.6M)
DR: Richards (0M)
DC: Kompany (6M)
DC: Lescott (22M)
DL: Clichy (7M)
MC: Barry (12M)
MC: Yaya (24M)
AML: Nasri (24M)
AMR: Silva (24M)
FC: Tevez (25M)
FC: Aguero (38M)

Total: ~182.6M

Granted our bench is stacked, but in reality, what right do any of you have to complain? Even with adjustments, our best XI is probably at most 20-30M more than yours, which isn't nearly as much as one would assume given your bitching and moaning.

Are we rich? Yes. Do we spend because we are? Yes. Are you rich? Yes. I really hope we don't cock up against QPR so I can start parading around about how money CAN and did buy success.

Edit: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...t-manchester-city-buying-glory-now-thats-rich

Your missing the point, we got our money through business and success. The United branding has been built and built upon over years.

Yours was overnight. Not that I care, with UEFA Financial Fair play rules coming into effect this year it will matter not across Europe. Couple that with the fact the spending will balance off over time as it did with Chelsea.

Its not your fault, and the game with evolve to resolve the issues.

 

[adedawson]

United Total: 178.5M
City Total: ~182.6M

You also forget to see that United's spending was literally over decades slowly building a team, using the finances of past success. City's mammoths amounts came over the last few years.

And again that will be rectified over the next 5 years with the new rules. I doubt a team will be able to do it again.

 

[Mus]

Financial fair play will have it's loopholes.. Don't expect it to work perfectley

 

[adedawson]

Financial fair play will have it's loopholes.. Don't expect it to work perfectley

yep as always. with any luck they will plug the worst.

 

[Help?]

I'm sick of hearing United fans turning to our spending when just admitting that they **** the bed this season isn't an option for them. Ferguson goes out and says teams like City have changed the face of the transfer market and all their fans jump on his dick and start saying the same. Newsflash, you lot have spent a ****load of money as well and wouldn't have been able to sustain your success without it. Yes, you created a ****load of talent out of nothing ala Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, etc. You've also spent a ****load of money over the years. Us getting taken over by Arab billions isn't far off of you getting put out into the public market back in the 90s and having people invest in your club. That was also an injection of cash flow.

Of course, I cant come out and deny that City have spent a ton of money, because we have, but United fans need to get their heads out of their asses and stop acting all high and mighty like you've never spent a bloody dime.

GK: De Gea (18M)
DR: Jones (17M)
DC: Ferdinand (29M)
DC: Vidic (7M)
DL: Evra (5.5M)
MC: Scholes (0M)
MC: Carrick (18M)
AML: Young (20M)
AMC: Valencia (16M)
AMR: Nani (22M?)
FC: Rooney (26M)

Total: 178.5M

Not to mention Berba's 30M on the bench, and Chicharito and Smalling were each about 10M.

Turn to City's typical starting XI:

GK: Hart (0.6M)
DR: Richards (0M)
DC: Kompany (6M)
DC: Lescott (22M)
DL: Clichy (7M)
MC: Barry (12M)
MC: Yaya (24M)
AML: Nasri (24M)
AMR: Silva (24M)
FC: Tevez (25M)
FC: Aguero (38M)

Total: ~182.6M

Granted our bench is stacked, but in reality, what right do any of you have to complain? Even with adjustments, our best XI is probably at most 20-30M more than yours, which isn't nearly as much as one would assume given your bitching and moaning.

Are we rich? Yes. Do we spend because we are? Yes. Are you rich? Yes. I really hope we don't cock up against QPR so I can start parading around about how money CAN and did buy success.

Edit: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...t-manchester-city-buying-glory-now-thats-rich

Wow man, you just saw the name City and your eyes went ballistic. As already pointed out, United built their success over time (about 5-10 years) and we assembled our starting eleven over longer time frame than you did.

BUT that's not even the point. I brought up this discussion, because I'm pissed that for a team that used to be generating so much money and COULD go and buy 2-3 stars in one summer, we now HAVE to sell a star to buy one. Not because you, City, came in and fuccked up the transfer values, those were wack since Real Madrid bought Figo, but because we have these owners who instead of giving the ability for the club to buy one world class player a season are paying themselves. Paying off interest and principal also constituets as paying themselves, because in the end, they end up with higher ownership of the club.

If not for Glazers, we would be generating something close to what Real Madrid is doing every season (we WERE the most grossing team in football for 8 years straight before that) and wouldn't care a slight bit about what Abramovich or Abu Dhabis are doing. But thanks to Glazers, the team is on the brink of becoming a 3-4th placed team. This is nothing new, this theme has been around for 3 years now, however we had titles to mask it but now those are drying up and the real numbers are starting to come out.

 

[Help?]

Let me put it into perspective:

In 2000-2002, our run rate for net transfer purchases was about 25 million/year and with that we were still able to churn out a good profit after all these transfers.
Since then not only did real inflation drive up the value of money, but also football and most importantly the premier league itself has astronomically increased in popularity. The prize money, ticket sales, merchandise, revenues are all significantly higher than they were 10 years ago, in some instances double the amounts.

So if our revenue side more or less doubled, then our net transfer purchases budget should have doubled as well to 50 million/year. Instead our current run rate is 10 million/year. So despite the EPL enjoying the best growth it has ever seen, we (arguably the face of EPL) are actually enjoying an equal but negative growth rate.

What happened since then? The Glazers came in. And now they are turning a money-generating giant into a feeder club.

Think of it as a property ownership company (REIT or something similar). You can own some world class properties and not reinvest into maintenance for 10 years and you will make A LOT of money, but after 10 years your properties will be far behid everybody else and will require very very big investments to bring them back up to where they were. Same with United, Glazers have been bleeding our youth dry, acquiring new players only after selling existing players and now the team will require some major investments to get back to where they should be. Its a typical case of an LBO, those used to be very common until 2008.

 

[Pogba4Now]

This terrible jersey has been confirmed:

**** you Nike We haven't had a really good jersey since ages.