The Official Oranje Thread

[RobbieD_PL]

So it's as if rather than passing to RvP, they'd (Wesley Sneijder and Arjen Robben) prefer to shoot past him and score themselves?

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Yeah. It does seem to happen a lot, particularly with Robben.

 

[poet11]

Read an article the other day about how frustrated RvP is playing with Sneijder and Robben because they always look for their own glory instead of playing as a team. I do almost wonder if Holland would be a better team if they played

RvP
Affelay-VdV-Kuyt

I read somewhere that in the WC Wes passed forward to RvP 5 times.....5 ******* times and they played in the final. Sneijder is great as in his accuracy is stunning and is two footed but I don't rate him much as a "playmaker"....he doesn't actually link a move together but releases players with first time passes or glory hunts himself. VdV I think is better in tight spaces and has better off the ball movement to help strikers(or had as I haven't seen much of him recently) and also can link a move together with a few players higher up the pitch. RvP isn't a natural striker who stays near the defenders all the time or in the box and starts moving towards danger areas as the move starts or near its completion most of the time. He also struggles if he has nobody to link up with to build moves so I think Affelay and VdV would be great for him. Don't know about Kuyt but he might be useful to defend from the front and run a lot which none of the forwards can do.

 

[Xifio]

Read an article the other day about how frustrated RvP is playing with Sneijder and Robben because they always look for their own glory instead of playing as a team. I do almost wonder if Holland would be a better team if they played

RvP
Affelay-VdV-Kuyt

Yeah. It does seem to happen a lot, particularly with Robben.

So it's as if rather than passing to RvP, they'd (Wesley Sneijder and Arjen Robben) prefer to shoot past him and score themselves?

and they're better players, so why bench them? the real solution would be to drop Robin, and play Raffie and Wes in a double false 9, with Affelay on the left, and Arjen on the right ...

apart from being a far better system, I'd love to see the top scorers of Germany and England not be able to get a spot in the XI based on tactical merit ...

 

[4ndr3i]

No way either Sneijder or Robben are better than RvP, not at this moment anyway. To drop van Persie would be a really stupid idea.

 

[Xifio]

for Holland? you must be joking ...

 

[4ndr3i]

Yeah, I was joking..

 

[Xifio]

oh wow, against Northern Ireland? damn ... and he was better than Wes and Arjen too for sure ... forget what's tactically better for Holland in the Group of Death, that match settles it ...

 

[4ndr3i]

Hahaha.. Yeah, because you know what's better for Holland from a tactical point of view.

 

[Xifio]

of course ...

 

[Mandieta6]

Do Wes and Rafael have the energy for a doyble false nine tandem? Not sure.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

**** no they don't. They're both lazy.

 

[Xifio]

Raffie played the position for Ajax in 02/03, and he did well ... Wes hasn't, but he has the skill set for an advanced tandem ... with a team like Holland, they can let the ball do the work, so they don't have to expend too much energy ...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I don't think they can trade goals with Portugal if they don't have RvP or Huntelaar. And that isn't saying much.

 

[Mus]

Has anyone recently played a double false 9 with neither player a known striker?

 

[Jaboldinho]

No, BUT THEY SHOULD!

 

[poet11]

@Mus-Probably Barcelona with Cesc and Messi......if you don't consider Messi a striker that is.

I don't think its a good idea because I think it creates confusion for your own team as well. We used to do that at times when Cesc was at Arsenal and RvP was fit in the sense that Cesc and him used to switch positions by RvP moving wide or midfield while Cesc played the false center forward. It does help to increase the influence of some individual players(sometimes negates it as well depending on player who should face towards to the goal more often as they are slow or physically not very flexible) but confuses other teammates who aren't on the same page so seem to be caught out of position.

There was this game against Bolton I think where we were losing 1 nil and RvP and Cesc weren't able to influence much till the 2nd half when RvP dropped very deep and Cesc was the furthest forward but still in an offensive midfield area.....RvP then scored the equalizer combining with Cesc coming from deep and then played a through ball from the half way line to Nasri who made a run exploiting the space created by not having a cf only to miss it without any shame...the gutless chinless cvnt that he is. It was great to watch but what happened is the shape in midfield was lost and it was all panic with 2-1 to Bolton at the final whistle. Its not that it was the exact reason to lose games but it creates panic and doubt for players to lose discpline.

I disagree with the thought that one has to complicate a system too much to make it look innovative and certain players better if the team doesn't benefit. And anyways Sneijder isn't very good without the ball and can't stay away from it to play a false 9. Also his strengths point to the idea that he should be looking forward towards the goal rather than away. And no way is he a better player than Van Persie. Not him and not Van der Vaart. Absolutely no way.

 

[Zlatan]

Van Persie by himself isn't a true striker, either. Just made into one. I still believe his strongest position is just behind the striking position supporting the main striker (Huntelaar).

My ideal Holland forward lineup

--------Huntelaar-----
-Robben-RvP-Sneijder--
----Bommel-De Jong---

And than depending on game and form maybe Raf instead of Robben. But we'll have to see about that. Sneijder and Van Persie could swap position from time to time to keep things interesting for the opponents defense.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Yeah, that seems right. I think keeping Robben on the left minimizes his selfishness too.

 

[Xifio]