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The English Premier League Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Mandieta6
- Start date
Sir Didier Drogba
Head Official
I agree with this, and the cynical part of me says that he at the least didnt care, preferred to win himself than leave a winning club, and possibly even deliberately left the club unstable.newbie original;3659944 said:
Ferguson was on Charlie Rose talking about coaching and he mentioned Bobby Charlton. He mentioned that he himself was an average player, "could score a goal or two but I was no Bobby Charlton or Ronaldo", he wondered if great players ran into issues in coaching because they couldn't understand average players. I actually wonder if he had that issue here, that he was such a great manager that he didn't quite understand that an average manager like Moyes couldn't handle that squad.
newbie original;3659944 said:
They are not average ffs. This team should not be 7th place. They should be top 3. Yes, there is rebuilding work needed, but Moyes has made an absolute abortion of the job. He's making the squad look one million times worse. There's no gameplan. No motivation. Nothing.
Seán D;3660254 said:
Hm, let's consider. According to Whoscored, you most-used, best-scoring 11 has been:
De Gea; Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra; Carrick, Cleverley; Valencia, Rooney, Janujaz; van Persie.
Let's compare that with the other top sides:
Hart; Zabaleta, Kompany, Demichelis, Clichy; Navas, Yaya, Fernandinho, Silva; Dzeko, Negredo.
Mignolet; Johnson, Skrtel, Sakho, Cissokho; Allen, Gerrard, Henderson; Sterling, Suarez, Coutinho.
Cech; Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Azpilicueta; Ramires, Lampard; Willian, Oscar, Hazard; Eto'o.
Sczeszny; Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gibbs; Arteta, Ramsey; Walcott, Ozil, Cazorla; Giroud.
Howard; Coleman, Distin, Jagielka, Baines; McCarthy, Barry; Mirallas, Barkley, Pienaar; Lukaku.
Lloris; Walker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Rose; Paulinho, Dembele; Townsend, Eriksen, Sigurdsson; Soldado.
I won't get into a subjective analysis of those teams (without even getting into the subject of depth or the validity of Whoscored's stats) but ManU being in the top 3 out of those is very debatable, with or without Moyes. It doesn't help that Moyes is probably the 6th out of the 7 managers of those teams whereas Ferguson was probably the 1st for the last 5 years but I don't think your squad has been particularly good since you had Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo in that front-line.
ManU wouldn't crack my top 4 out of those squads, and it might not even get 5th. Moyes isn't the only one to blame although he's definitely not helped the club progress at all.
A starting team of:
De Gea
Rafael--Vidic--Evans--Evra
---Carrick----Fellaini------
Kagawa--Mata--Januzaj
-------RVP---------------
That's a top 3 team when managed correctly. There needs to be work done, but not as much as has been stated.
Moyes is 99.99% to blame for this.
He can't motivate.
He can't handle the press.
The training is not good enough.
The teamsheets are far too inconsistent.
He can't handle the dressing room.
He can't rotate properly and keep players fit and in form.
He has been useless in the transfer market.
Not one redeeming feature. He has been an abortion.
De Gea
Rafael--Vidic--Evans--Evra
---Carrick----Fellaini------
Kagawa--Mata--Januzaj
-------RVP---------------
That's a top 3 team when managed correctly. There needs to be work done, but not as much as has been stated.
Moyes is 99.99% to blame for this.
He can't motivate.
He can't handle the press.
The training is not good enough.
The teamsheets are far too inconsistent.
He can't handle the dressing room.
He can't rotate properly and keep players fit and in form.
He has been useless in the transfer market.
Not one redeeming feature. He has been an abortion.
Up until this season, won 5 out of 7 titles. The 2 that were not won were lost by a point and on goal difference. 3rd should be a minimum expectation for the team. 4th is a disappointment but not a disaster. 7th is a fucking disgrace.Filipower;3660335 said:
The only points Moyes got from the top 7 are:
4 points against Arsenal
1 point against Tim fucking Sherwood
1 point against Chelsea when they didn't even bother attacking
The focus now should be on getting the right man, getting 4/5 players and getting 3rd/4th.
It's amazing how quickly Moyes has torn down an empire. His biggest trick was lowering everybody's expectations. He's talked down the players so much that rivals believe it. These guys are champions and they will come back strongly under the right manager.
The squad is more than good enough. Moyes sends them out without a plan and poorly trained. He is a stone age manager. He ran them into the ground. Any competent modern manager should be capable of getting Utd top 4. A great manager would challenge for the title.Mandieta6;3660344 said:
Moyes clearly has a ceiling. He's a 60 odd point a season manager at most. Any team who wants more than that should stay clear.
How can you be sure? How can you really say that you're not just blinded by your support for the club and that Fergie took a Top 10 side and made them world beaters? Remember, ManU have been shit in Europe for a few years now and the top of the English league has been shit and filled with subpar managers, too. Without Fergie, with Mou, Rodgers and Maritnez at the helm of good sides, perhaps ManU are right where they should be.
You can say that the side is good enough for a certain Top 4 finish, and we'll see whether you have a point once Moyes is out and someone else fails to live up to Fergie's legacy. But until then there it is just as easy to say that they weren't but Fergie and the circumstances made it look otherwise.
You can say that the side is good enough for a certain Top 4 finish, and we'll see whether you have a point once Moyes is out and someone else fails to live up to Fergie's legacy. But until then there it is just as easy to say that they weren't but Fergie and the circumstances made it look otherwise.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
There's also the argument that for several years the rest of the Premier League improved while Manchester United stood idly by irrationally confident in the same squad year after year.