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Guns, America and the NRA

PhiLLer

Fan Favourite
I had to bring this up again as I was listening to BBC Radio 5 Live last night and they brought up the debate about guns in America because today the gun ban Clinton signed back in 1994, which prevented citizens from owning semi-automatic weapons (think UZI's, AK47's etc.) expires, making it legal for Americans to purchase semi-automatic weapons for whatever they need them for.

They had a woman on from the NRA (National Rifle Association) speaking about how bad this ban was and that it didn't make sense and that Americans had the right to own semi-automatic weapons and how it didn't affect crime one bit etc. The usual bullshit you would expect from the NRA. I could barely contain myself just listening to her speak with such absolute ignorance, I was close to smashing my radio to bits, that's how much she pissed me off.

The arguments she gave in favour of this ban expiring were so bogus. Such as criminals still won't be allowed to own semi-automatic weapons, it's just the law-abiding (emphasising on that) that will be allowed to purchase semi-automatic weapons for hunting, self defence, shooting competitions, collection. Why on earth would anyone need to own a semi-automatic weapon? why does anyone even need a semi-automatic weapon anyway? owning a pistol (which I consider needless and stupid also) is one thing but before you know we'll have "law-abiding citizens" walking around armed to the teeth with UZI's, AK47's and whatnot.
Every criminal used to be a "law-abiding citizen" at sometime in their life, it's not like they were born a criminal and looked up on seeing first daylight. What if you have an argument with someone about a minor accident, it heats up and suddenly one of these "law-abiding citizens" pulls a bloody AK47 on you and shoots you. Yeah, so much for law-abiding citizen now eh!

Another bogus argument she tried to brainwash listeners with was the "what if you walk down a dark alley at night and someone attacks you?" argument. Yeah, first what are you doing in a dark alley at night anyway? you don't need to go there, what a load a crap!

I seriously do not understand what the NRA's (or anyone who supports guns for that matter) take on the matter is. How can you justify it being legal for people to own guns? (other than for sports or hunting purposes only). Nobody needs a gun to defend themselves, if guns weren't legal not many people would have to defend themselves for starters, it really is beyond my comprehension how anyone can support and think guns have a purpose (again, excluding sport or hunting).

The presenter then brought up the fact that in the UK, where guns are illegal, there are a lot less gun crime. She then pointed out that gun crime was on the rise in the UK. Fair enough, it is but nowhere near the proportions it has reached across the pond. She then added that there were a lot less people in the UK. Also true but the gun crime per person ration in the UK is a lot, lot lower than in the US. Also what about countries like Canada, Australia. Large countries but there isn't half the gun crime there is in the US. Why? because of the stupid gun laws (or lack of) in the US and the general stance towards guns by people like the NRA.

The NRA (bastards) go as far as calling the law that was signed by Clinton in 1994 a "political chest-thumping and deceit at its worst".
Read this article and have a laugh at the sheer ignorance these people project.
http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=886
 

Elder

Starting XI
Read the book "7 Myths About Gun Control"

I think that's the title of it. Always remember one thing in regards tothe gun control debate... guns are not responsible for killing people, people are responsible for killing people.

And why wasn't the "ban" made for eternity instead of 10 years? Must nothave been that important to Clinton and the gun control crowd.
 

Elder

Starting XI
Re: Guns, America and the NRA

Originally posted by PhiLLer

I seriously do not understand what the NRA's (or anyone who supports guns for that matter) take on the matter is. How can you justify it being legal for people to own guns? (other than for sports or hunting purposes only). Nobody needs a gun to defend themselves, if guns weren't legal not many people would have to defend themselves for starters, it really is beyond my comprehension how anyone can support and think guns have a purpose (again, excluding sport or hunting).

http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=886


Criminals will always be able to get guns, no matter what law is passed or what guns are banned. People use guns to defend themselves every day from criminals... In the city next to mine, Kennesaw Georgia, they passed a law forever ago saying you MUST own a gun. There has been one murder with a gun there for the past 20 years or so.

Guns aren't the problem, people and culture are.
 

PhiLLer

Fan Favourite
If guns are not responsible for killing people but people are responsible for killing people then how come there would be less deaths if guns were banned?

And isn't someone with a gun a lot more likely to kill someone than a person not carrying a gun?
 

PhiLLer

Fan Favourite
Re: Re: Guns, America and the NRA

Originally posted by Elder
Guns aren't the problem, people and culture are.

Let's rephrase that. People and culture are the problem because of guns.
 

Vagegast

Banned for Life [He likes P. Diddy]
People are the problem? Support of this ban for any demographic doesn't get lower than 60%. Even 61% of conservatives support it. It's election-year politics. :(

The Senate succeeded in attaching the renewal of the Assault Weapons ban by 52-47 but the bill died and the House didn't do anything. I remember Kerry and Edwards actually came back to D.C. to vote for it; Daschle actually voted against it.
 

#1 Stunna

The Alpha Mexican
I went out to the desert the other day to shoot off some rounds from a friend's AK-47... no citizen needs that much power. :D
 

LilPlayaJosh

Reserve Team
that ban was just something the govt used to act like they were controlling guns. It's so easy to get a AK-47 or an UZI or any other gun, and it will never change, ban or no ban...
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by #1 Stunna
I went out to the desert the other day to shoot off some rounds from a friend's AK-47... no citizen needs that much power. :D

So the plan to take back Texas is coming along nicely then (H) on my command, unleash hell :p

Anyway, I agree with Philler. But I also agree with Elder when he asks why it wasn't made a permanent ban in the first place. Why make it just ten years?
 

Elder

Starting XI
Re: Re: Re: Guns, America and the NRA

Originally posted by PhiLLer
Let's rephrase that. People and culture are the problem because of guns.

I don't think I can go along with that. People would still kill each other even if there weren't any guns. However, culture, especially in the black community, glorifies guns as a way of solving your problems. You might be able to turn this argument a few different ways and add different groups or subcultures into the mix but that's where most of the problem is at this point.

I wil concede that guns make it easier to kill people... however, no gun law will stop that from happening. I actually don't see the problem with banning such weapons as we really don't need them on the streets... but then it gets tricky when the government is telling you what you can and can't own... we've already seen how the government reacts with guns (ruby ridge, waco) and many people in this country are afraid of that kind of government power.
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
Originally posted by rhizome17
So the plan to take back Texas is coming along nicely then (H) on my command, unleash hell :p

Anyway, I agree with Philler. But I also agree with Elder when he asks why it wasn't made a permanent ban in the first place. Why make it just ten years?

A sunset provision is common for most laws because if something controversial and experimental (like banning automatic weapons was back in 1994) is passed, but doesn't work out then it's not for eternity.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't know why people should be allowed to have guns at all. If I was a hunter maybe I could understand, but I'm not and **** hunting. No more guns.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Ok fair enough, I can see the benefits of such a provision, PROVIDED it is followed up on.

And yeah, get rid of guns.
 

Vagegast

Banned for Life [He likes P. Diddy]
The Columbine kids used one of the guns that was banned (19 in all). It was bought legaly before the ban. Also, three of the four guns used were purchased at gun shows. If anything, the Assault Weapons Ban wasn't nearly tough enough as it should've been.

EDIT: Here's some incidents...
On January 17, 1989, Patrick Purdy killed five small children, and wounded 29 others and one teacher at the Cleveland Elementary School in Stockton, California. He used a semi-automatic version of the AK-47 assault rifle. Purdy shot 106 rounds in less than two minutes.

On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Kleboid killed 14 students, including themselves, and one teacher. Harris and Kleboid also wounded 23 others at Columbine High School. The teenage students were armed with a TEC-DC9, a Hi-Point Carbine military-style assault rifle, and two sawed-off shotguns.

On April 14, 2003, a gunman carrying an AK-47 assault rifle sprayed bullets at students in a New Orleans high school gymnasium, killing one student and wounding three others.
Pictures of different TEC-DC9...



And a picture of it being used.

 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
:|

The thing is, this is more about the type of gun than guns per se. I mean, what sort of hunter needs these sorts of guns? Even for self defence purposes, a simple hand gun should be sufficient. But semi-autos? Gimme a break. They have been banned here for years anyway. But people here prefer to use swords when they are going to kill people. And machetes.

Having said that, it is legal to build a cruise missile in your backyard.
 

USA Supporter

Reserve Team
I don't see why anyone would need an AK47. Still, it has never been proven that gun ownsership leads to violence. Actually, I'm pretty sure a lot of people in Canada own guns, and there isn't a lot of crime up there. In Florida, they made it legal to carry a concealed weapon (with a license of course) and this has caused gun violence to go down. Also, the areas where there are more guns per person are not the areas where there is the most crime. I probably will never own a gun, but I am not anti-gun. If you want to own a gun and you are not a criminal, you should be allowed to.
 

Vagegast

Banned for Life [He likes P. Diddy]
It's legal to carry a concealed weapon in Virginia. Some group carried it in some local restaurants a few miles from here. Owner called the cops and they got arrested. When they find out it was legal, the cops apologized and they were let go.
 


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