Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
Where did he say he smiled because they were beheaded?
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Beheadings in Saudi Arabia...
- Thread starter Elder
- Start date
Where did he say he smiled because they were beheaded?
USA Supporter
Reserve Team
I'm pretty sure we do have gas chambers in some states, but there are no hangings. Also, we only use the death penalty when someone actually kills someone. Also, the death penalty isn't even used for most murder convictions as punishment. Some states don't use it, and the death penalty is pretty much only used in extreme cases, although I do think it is used too much in some states (Texas is a good example of this).
As for Islam, they practice Wahhabism (sp?) in Saudi Arabia which is not peaceful at all. Islam is peaceful, but Wahhabism is not. I know quite a few Muslims and they are some of the nicest people I know. I have no problem with Islam, but I do have a problem with those who misinterpret it and think that they should kill innocents.
As for Islam, they practice Wahhabism (sp?) in Saudi Arabia which is not peaceful at all. Islam is peaceful, but Wahhabism is not. I know quite a few Muslims and they are some of the nicest people I know. I have no problem with Islam, but I do have a problem with those who misinterpret it and think that they should kill innocents.
The_Knight
Senior Squad
That won't be a long reply.. it cud be sarcastic i won't make any promises
1- So you FRANKLY SAY that you have no problem with drug dealers. I can totally accept this concept from your sick mind. Now for the rest of the 'sane' members here's the story of drugs:
-You have the money, you go get the drugs... Drugs cause extreme euphoria... After usage of drugs your body becomes dependant on them and start having attacks of depression.... You keep on buying the drugs with all the money you got.... euphoria is priceless.... Now your out of money..... You have lost the human advantage of the 'brain'..... this is worse than drinking.... You start thinking of any ways necessary to get the money to buy the drugs.... stealing... murdering.... esponiage.... (world war 2 history: Not sex, nor money, drived people to betray their countries.. it was drugs)... You name the murders..... Teenage killing his mother? So common.....
To say that: "a drug dealer, who isn't harming anyone personally".... IS THE MOST NAIVE AND STUPIDEST SENTENCE EVER WRITTEN IN THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You may have a better view if ur mother- father or wife was a drug abuser..... You don't even need that to imagine or understand where I'm going.... You are insanely stupid.. I'm sory to say it that frankly but I can't help it.... Let me put it to you this way from my personal experience with toxicological studies:
Drug-abuse leads to either: DEATH or MURDER.
Drug dealers don't directly harm people? It's like saying "Selling weapons to Bin Laden doesn't directly harm people!!" how stupid does that sound like to you... stupid.
2- Ladies and Gentlemen I present to you Elder... whenever stuck, he brings up the Israeli-Palestenian conflict into the discussion... even if the thread was as irrelevant as drug-dealers...!! I won't drag myself into that.. i don't need to save myself, unlike you.
3- What is that BULLSH*T ur saying about the Islamic schools? Stop spreading rumors... anyway u can't get any lower. This has nothign to do with Islam... in the Unites States after 9/11... muslim women were terribly abused and a fatwa was issued that allowed them to walk without their head-scarfs to escape the offending acts... talk about a BURNING SKOOL? Boy r u low.... U have to start DOING HOMEWORK before starting to babble on... yeah drugs are for the benefit of the soceity.. GET A LIFE.. or tell you what.... keep on saying what ur saying... it's helping me make my point that u r full of crap... plz write a second post.. PLZ DO.
4- These Saudi drug-dealers weren't ordinary dealers... They were from the POLICE force... USING POLICE vehicles...They were the gaurds who the people trusted for protecting their soceity from this sort of harm, and instead they are spreading it... they are the lowest of the low drug dealers.... oh but what am I saying... drug dealers aren't harming the soceity... they aren't dangerous... Murder for drugs? Never heard about it... I must be living on another planet or it's you who hasn't got off the toilet seat...
5- Plz write another post... ur 1st one said that the Saudis were terrorists for executing drugdealers... in the 2nd one you said Drug-dealers don't harm the soceity... I won't try to imagine the 3rd... I cudn't have imagined ur 2nd reply anyway.... Keep it up
PS- Try stuffing words like 'Islam' and 'Islamic' into ur reply.... along with words like 'terror' and 'frightening'... it really is useful for the propaganda... although the outcome will make absolutely NO SENSE... but what the hell d'you got to lose? A messed-up brain...
And finally, I would like to 'urge' the Saudi government to stop 'terrorizing' the drug dealers, let them live and prosper, WHILE punishing the 'bad guys' who mis-use drugs (sounds like Disneyland)... and use more painful methods of execution and world peace will prevail.
Stop Terrorizing Drug-Dealers.... The message is clear (and funny too, you can't deny that)
Reply quickly I can't wait.
Salam (Peace)
The_Knight
Senior Squad
Originally posted by rhizome17
I think the death penalty is wrong, regardless of who is practising it, what the person has done, how it occurs, etc. etc.
I understand what you mean. Killing a muderer won't get anybody back from death. The concept of punishment is not for 'revenge' as many may think.
The concept of punishment is to eliminate a certain behaviour (murdering) from the community. When a murderer knows the the punishment of his crime is death, he shall think many times before committing the murder. This is for the well-being of a soceity.
The movie 'Minority Report' brought this concept clearer... when people started to realize that muderers are being removed from the soceity into some sort of isolation... thinking of committing a crime has tragically decreased. The aim is not revenge, it is to eliminate this behavior from the soceity or tragically reduce it.
The death penalty should be with the least pain induced. There was a time in American history -and noone can deny that- when electricution was used as a method of execution. The cause of death was simply: Sympatheic shock from extreme pain. It is a relief that it has been removed.
But this thread isn't talking about the death penalty forsay... it's talking about a 'foolish' government 'terrorizing' drug-dealers... Is anybody working here for the DEA? Well come on cops we're on for a good laugh.
You still haven't posted anything Elder, plz do... don't you disappoint me and close the thread.. I'm saving the best for last, and I'm sure so are you.
Elder is the name, propaganda is his game. keep it up.
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
That may be the aim, but the problem is it doesn't work. Janet Reno said she spent her adult life looking for evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent, and she never found any. Statistics have consistently bore that out. Why is the murder rate so much higher in the U.S., a country that has the death penalty, than in countries that don't? The number of homicides in California went up after they reinstated the death penalty. Many such examples can be found.
The_Knight
Senior Squad
Here's my reply to that and I hope you find it reasonable:
Murder rates depends on a various number of factors such as 'racist' problems, economical standards, and difference in economical standards of living between various groups of the soceity. A soceity like the United States has many of these factors incroporated being a multi-cultural soceity. Add to that, most people in this soceity are Type A personalities. This adds up to the factors affecting murder rates. And here is the point I want to make: For the statistics to be valid, they have to be done within the same community, at a close interval of time, and with nearly the same factors to reach an accurate conclusion e.g. rates of muder in a certain state while practising the law, and the rate of murder in the same state without practicing the law. Providing that the time interval and period is sufficient to produce a proper hypothesis. Even if the results of comparing the United States to a European country were in my favour I wouldn't consider them valid... There are numerous factors we have to keep in mind.
Anyway, and that's for Elder, here's what the Qur'an says about punishment:
"...If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people" (Qur'an 5:32).
Life is sacred, according to Islam and most other world faiths. But how can one hold life sacred, yet still support capital punishment?
The Qur'an answers, "...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151).
The key point is that one may take life only "by way of justice and law." In Islam, therefore, the death penalty can be applied by a court as punishment for the most serious of crimes. Ultimately, one's eternal punishment is in God's hands, but there is a place for punishment in this life as well. The spirit of the Islamic penal code is to save lives, promote justice, and prevent corruption and tyranny.
Islamic philosophy holds that a harsh punishment serves as a deterrent to serious crimes that harm individual victims, or threaten to destabilize the foundation of society. According to Islamic law (in the first verse quoted above), the following two crimes can be punishable by death:
-Intentional murder
-Spreading mischief in the land.
Intentional Murder
The Qur'an legislates the death penalty for murder, although forgiveness and compassion are strongly encouraged. The murder victim's family is given a choice to either insist on the death penalty, or to pardon the perpetrator and accept monetary compensation for their loss (2:178).
"Spreading mischief in the land" can mean many different things, but is generally interpreted to mean those crimes that affect the community as a whole, and destabilize the society. Crimes that have fallen under this description have included:
-Treason
-Terrorism
-Land, sea, or air piracy
Again let's not forget the subject of the thread.. Guyz.. the Saudi government is 'terrorizing' drug-dealers... we must do something about it.... War on Terror? Let's go for it.
I'm in favor of the death penalty for several reasons. But not with the imperfect criminal system we have today. I wouldn't want to support a policy that would execute a single person for a crime if it meant that one day, one person would be falsely convicted and executed despite his innocence. In Illinois, journalism students from a local college got 13 convicted killers of death row after their own investigation determined that those convicts were simply innocent. Think about that. Illlinois alone. Now image how many innocent people will be/already are exectued around the country. Frankly, I don't want to.
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
Vagegast makes a good point, and I think that's why Ryan changed his mind after looking into the real nitty gritty of the death penalty. And too few people are willing to do that. I personally am opposed to the death penalty; our closest allies are opposed to it and the countries Bush branded as the "axis of evil" as well as other notorious human rights abusers support and use it, just as we do. That's not company I want to be in. But at the very least, even if you support an "ideal" death penalty, it must be acknowledged that the failings in the legal system and in human nature itself make it impossible to apply perfectly and fairly, and that it costs far too much money compared with life imprisonment. As for its status as a deterrent, I trust Janet Reno when she says she's spent most of her life looking for evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent and hasn't found any. But some quick facts I dug up:
- 10 of 12 states that do not use the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average
- Homicides increased in the 8 months following California's first execution in 25 years.
- Oklahoma experienced a significant increase in stranger killings after the death penalty was reinstituted after 25 years.
- A study of nearly 30 pairs of counties chosen for economic and demographic similarities but which differed in application of the death penalty found significantly higher rates of violent crime in counties which used the death penalty.
- Despite the fact that the South accounts for 82% of all executions in the U.S. since 1976, the murder rate in that region is on the rise. It is falling in the northeast, which has accounted for 1% of executions.
- A NYT study in 2000 revealed that states that do not use the death penalty have a homicide rate 48 to 101 percent lower than those that do.
Probably more to come later.
- 10 of 12 states that do not use the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average
- Homicides increased in the 8 months following California's first execution in 25 years.
- Oklahoma experienced a significant increase in stranger killings after the death penalty was reinstituted after 25 years.
- A study of nearly 30 pairs of counties chosen for economic and demographic similarities but which differed in application of the death penalty found significantly higher rates of violent crime in counties which used the death penalty.
- Despite the fact that the South accounts for 82% of all executions in the U.S. since 1976, the murder rate in that region is on the rise. It is falling in the northeast, which has accounted for 1% of executions.
- A NYT study in 2000 revealed that states that do not use the death penalty have a homicide rate 48 to 101 percent lower than those that do.
Probably more to come later.
The_Knight
Senior Squad
Yes that's exactly the problem. Not convicting an innocent person... My uncle is a judge, and he confirmed what my professor of Forensic said. For any person to be convicted of murder, even if he had his fingerprints all over the weapon... even if some people said they saw him do it... even if he had victim's blood all over him... this is all not enough. The only thing that could convict a murderer is a Confession. It isn't easy for anyone to convict a person of murder based on anything else. You could pay people to lie about a testimony. Fingerprints could be planted. A confiction is very serious and every Judge knows that.. over here a confession is the crucial evidence any judge looks for... A Death penalty should be dealt with as serious as it is. To banish it from a justice system is what I consider an 'easy shortcut'... Anyway not every murder is punished with a death penalty... it's a long discussion and I'm not a lawyer to speak about it...
To date in the U.S.A., 45 men have been executed, only to have their innocence proved later on. The fairness of implementation of death penalty laws from state to state is a major issue. Many defendants had neither adequate counsel, nor could they afford a private one during their trials. On the other hand, it is claimed that the rich and influential, black or white, can get away with the crime by hiring the most expensive trial lawyers.
::shinji::
Min
I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong on this one. Hard evidence is a lot more credible than a confession.. There are countless cases of people being forced to confess to crimes, even murders that they did not commit. It's no secret that many police forces use interogation tactics like intimidation, sleep deprovation, and brain-washing techniques to encourage confessions.
The_Knight
Senior Squad
Actually these methods are no secret to any judge and that's why the first thing defense lawyers plead for is that the person was forced to confess under pressure and that dismays the previous confession. I'm no lawyer but the exact words of my Forensic professor were 'Confession is the master of all evidences'. Anyway as for the presence of Hard evidence pointing strongly to a guilty suspect, sentences such as life-prison are issued in such cases. The point I was making is how sensitive 'DEATH' penalty should be dealt with. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that it's either 'death' or 'set free'. My bad.
To sentence a convict to death needs Hard evidence suported with a confession. That is however not the deal with all cases. Sometimes the evidence is too strong to be supported by a confession.
That's exactly right. This goes on in many cases, not just murder. I am quite sure there have been many cases of someone confessing to a crime they didn't commit because they didn't believe they could win the court case for different reasons, and then just do a plea deal to reduce the sentence.
I was trying to point out a very simple thing actually. It's the fact that many Muslim terrorists around the world are fighting, killing, murdering around the world to implement this same form of Islamic Law in certain countries.
Wahhabi Islam is also the form of Islam being taught around most of the world, and it's a very regressive and often violent form of the religion. It's also the official religion of Saudi Arabia... This is where I draw the comparisons to terrorists and the saudi government.
That's all.
Who are they hurting? Is it not the personal responsibility of the ACTUAL person using the drug to take the blame?
This is where the world is going to ****... blame the drug dealer, not the actual user of the drug... blame everyone else but the person who makes the conscious choice to engage in such behavior.
It's sad, but this kind of attitude is what gets many criminals out of jail time... "my mom said mean things to me as a kid, so it's not my fault that i killed her."
The_Knight
Senior Squad
I'm sorry, but again...WHAT??????????!!!
You have two incompatible words in the same sentence... that is so much like u..a propagandist.... 'Islamic Law' and 'Muslim terrorists'.... Have you not understood ANYTHING from this thread or the one before it..... or the one before it or the one before it..... or the one before it.... I can go on forever.... You are making a complete fool of urself with these 'propaganda trails'... Enough said. You are trying to give the impression that Terrorists are implementing Islamic Law when they kill children at a school.. civilians in a building..blablabla... propaganda... Stop making a fool of yourself... I won't get bored of explaining EVERYTHING I said in the previous threads ALL OVER AGAIN...
We have this proverb in Arabic about how hard it is to teach a donkey anything.... if you'll play the 'donkey' then the proverb is well understood.
Anyway your use of the word 'drugs' is very amusing.. and deluding. Anti-biotics are drugs. Painkillers are drugs. Morphine is a drug. On the other hand, Heroin which is di-acetyl morphine is a drug... Cocaine which is cannabinol is a drug. To stop this deluding manner of yours let me tell the 'sane' members on this thread that we are talking about DRUGS that is to say.. Euphoric drugs such as Heroin and Cocaine... etc.
So these spreading these drugs isn't hurting anyone... Mmm... I can't find words to say... I guess the DEA officials and Marshals should feel guilty about their jobs after hearing that from a red-neck like you....
Someone on this thread called you that once... I guess it suits you a lot.. a red-neck. Go on stuff words like 'Islamic law' with words like 'Terrorism'... who are you fooling??
So the Saudi governament is terrorizing drug-dealers.. Oh these bastard Saudis.... let me get the concept of 'terror' closer to your thick head.
It's Thursday, 16th of September 1982... The sun is setting giving way to a relaxing day for the people living in this village. On the horizon a platoon of soldiers are approaching, some are firing special rockets that explode in the air and keep glowing.... The people of the campus may not have understood what's happening.. they just found that the night has transformed to a bright day.... The platoon breaks through the campus... Not a single shot is heard... One may wonder why? Because slaughtering doesn't produce loud shot sounds... Now sounds are starting to be heard... all sorts of screams from women, children, and men.... More glowing rockets are being fired as the sounds of the screams are getting louder...
The operation took 36 hours....
During this 36 hours, Three thousand five hundred Palestenians were killed.... 3500 killed in 36 hours.... with a rate of 100 palestenians per hour....
Some children fled to the Gaza Hospital and the Foreign reporters heard about it... they arrived Friday morning but weren't allowed in before Saturday morning... when they came in the smell from the rottening bodies was shocking.... dead raped women were seen everywhere... some babies had cut off body parts... There was no place for a foot without a dead body occuping it.... The world media was alarmed but later on it went back sleeping...
The General in charge of the attack is called General Ariel Sharon... He resigned from his position after the massacre of the campus 'Sabra' and 'Shatila'.... The Israeli court made him pay a fine of 10 cents and was 'frowned upon'....
He is now the Prime Minister of Israel.
Do you want more examples or does your dickhead narrow all kinds of terrorism to the type of 'terror' governments apply on drug-dealers...
Go on plz do.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/14/news/international/china_banks.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes
China executes 4 for bank fraud
Must say I agree with it - let's go get Ken Lay
China executes 4 for bank fraud
Must say I agree with it - let's go get Ken Lay