Screw Konami

[tracertong]

Its putting people off buying the game to, let my mate play my copy on my computer last night for the first time, after seeing the ridiculess fouls, the way the ball always bounced to the CPU players, and the way even Rhonaldino would lose control 5 yards out for some unknown reason his words to me where “Thanks for letting me play this, I wont bother buying it now, I’ll stick to fifa as at least the Ref’s in that have not been paid off every game”, its so stupid if the amount of decisions went against one team in real life, Fifa would be launching an investigation into the Ref.

Learn the engine you noobs , I can play a whole match sometimes not fouling once , at the most I get 2 or 3 fouls per game now.

I suggest you amateur's stick to Fifa.

 

[Swanseajack]

Learn the engine you noobs , I can play a whole match sometimes not fouling once , at the most I get 2 or 3 fouls per game now.

I suggest you amateur's stick to Fifa.

Pr!ck

Was waiting for a reply like that, blah blah blah why dont you go and support man Utd or somthing.

 

[kschoice]

Like what? We already had to lose the crowd because the PS2's CPU could not compute that along with everything else happening on the pitch.

I don't need the referee on the ground, for example. I would have traded all the graphical improvements on player models from one of the PES to the next for AI improvements. Keep in mind that there have been 5 PES games on PS2, and where each one has significantly increased graphically over its predecessor, there has been almost no AI improvement. Take PES (1) and PES 5, compare them in terms of graphics and animation and try to estimate the difference of CPU power exploitation between the two. Don't you think a fraction of this could have been used for AI ? Of course, but it's much easier and profitable to improve what pops immediately to the eyes.

And about crowd effects, although it's a pity for people who own hardware that is more powerful than the PS2, it's up to the player to decide what he wants the most, a nice technical demo that he can watch, or an actual game, which he takes part in. Of course, if video games customers prefer aestheticism to gameplay, then my whole point is dull. But it makes sense to me that a game is about playing.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I don't need the referee on the ground, for example.

I would disagree on this. In real life, the referee is there so he should also be there in the game. Don't forget that many people play this game against other humans. When I am playing and the ref is in the way of play, thats realistic. I wouldnt want to lose something that is there in real life just so when I play against the computer, they have better AI. There is a reason why online play has become what it is today

 

[tracertong]

Pr!ck

Was waiting for a reply like that, blah blah blah why dont you go and support man Utd or somthing.

ROFL - Nothing worse than Fifa Chavs.

"mummy the nasty referee keeps giving me fouls on pes5"

"dont worry son , we got you Fifa 06 for xmas "

"oh thanks mom , Fifa is the best !"

 

[kschoice]

I would disagree on this. In real life, the referee is there so he should also be there in the game. Don't forget that many people play this game against other humans. When I am playing and the ref is in the way of play, thats realistic. I wouldnt want to lose something that is there in real life just so when I play against the computer, they have better AI. There is a reason why online play has become what it is today

If you think that having the opportunity of having the ref in the way when playing with a friend is worth screwing the AI, it's your choice. I don't see the point of the "ref being on the ground"-realism when around him, CPU controlled players run away from the ball, run directly outside of the ground with the ball, make 1-minute-long runs keeping the ball without gaining any ground and do many other things that ruin realism bad.

It has already been said that the next-gen hardware will allow to keep track of every blade of grass on the ground. Do you think it should be done before or after the AI ?

 

[deftonesmx17]

If you think that having the opportunity of having the ref in the way when playing with a friend is worth screwing the AI, it's your choice. I don't see the point of the "ref being on the ground"-realism when around him, CPU controlled players run away from the ball, run directly outside of the ground with the ball, make 1-minute-long runs keeping the ball without gaining any ground and do many other things that ruin realism bad.

I dont see these problems when not playing against the computer. Playing against the computer ruins realism bad. AI will never be anything close to playing agaisnt another human. A human is 100% random and free thinking, the same can't be said about "game AI" anytime in the near future or ever. Once a computer can fully think for itself, you might not want to be in this world.

It has already been said that the next-gen hardware will allow to keep track of every blade of grass on the ground. Do you think it should be done before or after the AI ?

after the AI

 

[kschoice]

I dont see these problems when not playing against the computer. Playing against the computer ruins realism bad. AI will never be anything close to playing agaisnt another human. A human is 100% random and free thinking, the same can't be said about "game AI" anytime in the near future or ever. Once a computer can fully think for itself, you might not want to be in this world.


after the AI

Nonetheless, I think there is something between a human player and the crap we have right now, and I think that with some efforts, it will be much closer from the first than from the second.

I took a rather extreme example with the grass, but I am willing to bet that with next-gen, Konami will come up with assistant referees on the ground, substitutes and coach shown on the side, as well as ball pickers, photographers, mega-cool modelized crowds with animated behaviour who will throw papers on the ground which will stay there for the whole game, and react to the players walking on them and fly in the wind, etc, etc... And when the next-next-gen will be about to arrive, they will claim that the current hardware isn't powerful enough for improving the AI.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I took a rather extreme example with the grass, but I am willing to bet that with next-gen, Konami will come up with assistant referees on the ground, substitutes and coach shown on the side, as well as ball pickers, photographers, mega-cool modelized crowds with animated behaviour who will throw papers on the ground which will stay there for the whole game, and react to the players walking on them and fly in the wind, etc, etc... And when the next-next-gen will be about to arrive, they will claim that the current hardware isn't powerful enough for improving the AI.

Are you a console gamer or a PC gamer? Yeah, you are right, in the console world visuals are what sell. The PC world is quite different though and we can't use a port from (konami of all companies with their very poor port history) a PS2 game to justify that game developers make crappy AI. We are talking about a game that is made on a crappy system, yes the PS2 is and always was crap and PR bull I expect the xbox 360 and PS3 to be the same. Any and all major advances in gaming are done in the PC world. Online, yup M$ and its little fanboys act like online gaming is some great new thing when PC gamers have been doing it for many years. The other problem is how console companies have developers by the balls now. They have all jumped on the bandwagon because they see more profits from the avg gamer and not the hardcore gamer.

Of course, if video game customers prefer aestheticism to gameplay, then my whole point is dull. But it makes sense to me that a game is about playing.

Does FIFA outsell PES every year?
You know the answer and you know the reasons.

 

[TristanAbbott7]

End of the day, I'll still probably buy WE9:I for the XBox as it's backwards compatable on the 360 so no slowdown and being able to play on the big screen will work for me.

 

[deftonesmx17]

End of the day, I'll still probably buy WE9:I for the XBox as it's backwards compatable on the 360 so no slowdown and being able to play on the big screen will work for me.

If Konami gets of their arse and adds 16:9 mode for the xbox this time. I would love to use my big screen also

 

[deluxxe]

Learn the engine you noobs , I can play a whole match sometimes not fouling once , at the most I get 2 or 3 fouls per game now.

I suggest you amateur's stick to Fifa.

Although i would have stated this slightly differently, i agree. After a few games, you learn how to play without fouling. In PES5 you can't simply hold the challenge buttons and assume to get possession without a whistle.
If you do this and complain about fouls, you're not playing defence properly.
I have many complaints with PES5, but fouls is not one of them.

 

[pere]

I have many complaints with PES5, but fouls is not one of them.

I agree with that.
Although I have to admit that the referee style in pes5 is probably closer to the italian or german league than to EPL or international matches.
But I like the fact that its not the push of a button that decides whether its a foul or not, but the actual situation, i.e. how a player makes contact to his opponent.

I would really love an option to pretend to be fouled, with every player having a seperate skill to perform this. Its not exactly fair play, but it would be much more interesting to watch the replays for crucial situations, like in real footie matches.

In general there should be much more situations where it's not clear from the beginning what the decision is, to add a more realistic feel to the game. The canceled offside goals are a small step into the right direction, but they are always presented the same style, the fun is gone after you saw it 3 times.

other things would be yellow cards for kicking the ball away after the whistle or for waiting too long with goal kicks in overtime etc.. of course the clock shouldn't be stopped then in those situations.

one could say that konami does't add those things because they want to conserve the 'presentation style' of the series, but i think if they charge for another full game then they should be able to present more new ideas like that and not only one tiny improvement every other year. and those things don't require significant additional cpu ressources. Its probably that the game itself is very decent and has become really popular, lacking alternatives. so no need to worry for konami.
Hopefully the fifa series will dramatically improve, or maybe good ole dino dini finally can release another footie game...

 

[deluxxe]

I would really love an option to pretend to be fouled, with every player having a seperate skill to perform this.

that's a great idea. I remember a version of FIFA on the SNES had this. If you had possession of the ball and pushed to L and R trigger your player would attempt a dive. lol. it was pretty funny when the ref called a foul when there was no one near you and you dove.

 

[Snowy]

Although i would have stated this slightly differently, i agree. After a few games, you learn how to play without fouling. In PES5 you can't simply hold the challenge buttons and assume to get possession without a whistle.
If you do this and complain about fouls, you're not playing defence properly.
I have many complaints with PES5, but fouls is not one of them.

I can understand tracer's frustration. Trying to explain that the 'constant fouls' can be avoided if you learn the game engine is simply unacceptable to some of the people posting here. To them, it's simply konami cheating to help the AI.

I am also able to get thru a game with 2-3 fouls and it took me 2 weeks of frustration to learn it. But the thing that kept me going and trying to learn it was because I saw other people managing to do it when they played. So, if someone can do it, so can I. Another choice would be to whine and throw tantrums and accusing the game of being crap. I did not choose that course, because it would have resulted in my own loss of the best currently available footie sim.

This game does have flaws, but constant fouls is not one of them. Nor is the bouncing balls 'attrated to AI player's feets'. I get lots of loose balls now. there is a trick to it.

 

[Jomi]

I have no problems with the fouls system too...It's all about playing without being too agressive...What drives me crazy is the way the referee handles the game...I don't mind having 50 fouls per game but both teams ( mine and the CPU's ) should be treated the same way.
That's the perfect cheat.
In real life, if a referee acts this way, he needs to be protected by the police when the game is over

 

[jatin]

Well...guess like most guys..i too have little probs with the fouls..after i started tapping the X at the right moment and not keeping it pressed unlike PES3/4
However..its the higher AI(..if any) tht present the frustation..like referee decisions...players becoming slow dumb witted passers for a moment or so...like lampard not being able to pass a decent ball coz i was leading with the CPU pressuring for an equalizer..tht just pisses me off.
If the CPU is behind..the computer makes my player attributes less i guess..to change the pattern of the game almost completely..suddenly i m trapped in my penalty area..wudnt mind if this was for a few moments after i score..but there are matches wheer i m under the cush for 70 or so minutes after scoring...even at home

 

[Maichal1616]

The problem is most of the games in PES 5 are dull. Every single team plays this dumb bunker defence + counter attack strategy, which results in those 0-0 draw streaks with the occasional 1-0 or 2-1 wins inbetween. That basically is the main difference between PES 4 and PES 5. And that I guess makes all the cheats so obvious. When the CPU attacked like mad in PES 4 you didn't mind the few fishy deflections all that much. But in PES 5 you often lose games 0-1 because of the single cheap goal which is often their only shot on goal. I'm on top of the league, yet I have scored 19 goals less than the runner up. And I have conceded 10 goals in 29 games. Realism? No, thats just bulls'hit.

I remember times, when games were supposed to be fun. Nowadays they have to be 'challenging' instead.

 

[The_Knight]

Very true...

Most games ARE dull.... I just won the spanish league and cup on 5*.... and still 'most' games are dull...

This game has great potential, I hate to see the CPU strategy bring it to that shape.

 

[Snowy]

If the CPU is behind..the computer makes my player attributes less i guess..to change the pattern of the game almost completely..suddenly i m trapped in my penalty area..wudnt mind if this was for a few moments after i score..but there are matches wheer i m under the cush for 70 or so minutes after scoring...even at home

Another urban legend. When the computer is behind, it's player's get a boost to their stats depending on how high their mentality is. This is explained in the manual and ingame explanation of what each of the stats mean.

If you look at mentality it will say how the players react when going behind.

Teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U have players with high mentality, and when they are behind they run around on the pitch like they are high on something. Playing at home and away also affects the players.