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Screw Konami

Lee C

Club Supporter
deftonesmx17 said:
Let me make this very clear. The more complex the coding, the more powerful the processor needs to be to execute that code efficiently, no matter what type of code we are talking about. :rolleyes:
Don't confuse complex with inefficient.

Efficiently written, complex algorithms will run faster than poorly written simple algorithms on the same spec CPU.

If you have a game that needs to eliminate graphical resources to free up time to process the game mechanics then you have a set of severely unbalanced resources.

Write the game with the required resources and then, with whatever is left, you make it look nice. The only 2 reasons this would ever get reversed is...

1) Your game plays that badly that you have to blind people with eye candy and hope they don't notice.

2) You have so little skill in game mechanics that you rely on the eye candy to hide your inability.

The only way you would get away with either of these is if your QA department lack any kind of gaming competence. Although, as I suspect that Konami don't actually know what QA is, getting away with it would seem relatively easy there.

I noticed you also used HL2 and Fear as justification for high spec CPU's to run the AI and physics. If you lower the graphical detail right down, HL2 is perfectly playable, with identical AI to a 3.6GHz CPU and a 7800GTX video card. What really chews up the CPU is the physics calculations. Bouyancy, collisions, light refraction and reflection, shadowing etc... they're the killers, not the AI.

Good AI with a complimentary set of graphical content is perfectly doable on current hardware, finding the company with the skillset to do it is another matter altogether. I don't think Konami will be able to make use of the next gen console hardware simply because they can't make use of current gen PC technology and lets face it, the 2 aren't that far apart.

15 years ago, I was writing AI on the C64 that was similar in the way HL2 works, threat assessment, route blocking, containment of enemies etc... People assume that when a game slows down, it's the AI when really, it's the bloated graphics acting like a lead weight round the games neck.

As for the game cheating... you'd better believe games cheat. I have seen enough written and helped to write them... Not seen many as bad as a pool game I played last year (Pool Paradise) that actually moved the balls after shots.

www.digital-essence.co.uk\misc\pool1.png

www.digital-essence.co.uk\misc\pool2.png

Oh, I can't remember who mentioned it, but not every computer game is scripted, chess, tetris, pretty much any driving game are examples of non-scripted games.
 

Golaso

Club Supporter
Playing PES5 is frustrating. That's it.
And i don't like frustrating games. Games should be fun. And fair.
SAD, IRREFUTABLE FACT IS: In PES5 computer cheats LIKE HELL.

Just an example from my last match:
ML Cup final.
(And i mean LAST match - just sold my PES5 to a friend because i can't stand games like this one. I JUST CAN'T :ewan: )

I score early in the first half but then "the fun" starts:
-I'm going 1-1 on goal and i get fouled from behind from the last defender. Red card? No. Not even yellow.
Just a free kick.
This happened 4!! times in this game.
Then.. computer had a similar chance and i made a foul like that...sure..i've got red card.
WHATEVER.
KONAMI??!?!?! What the f*** have you done?!?!? :kader:

-I nicely create an open space for my striker up ahead so i just do a through ball and striker is free to score but at that very moment i get fouled. The ball comes to streaker but the refeere stops the game. No advantage rule. WTF?!?!?!??!?!
-This too happened like 5 times in this match. Everytime the same old story - just after doing the final pass and the striker is free to go 1-1 with the keeper i get fouled and the gameplay stops....
KONAMI??!?!?! What the f*** are you doing?!?!? :kader:

Then.. another Konami deja vu syndrome comes in in the last minutes of the game - my computer controlled defender makes a totally unnecessary tackle in my penalty area and.. penalty, 1-1.
I've won this match after extra time... BUT... somehow it just does not feel right. AT ALL.

You know...this game is not bad BUT... like i said i don't like cheating. It drives me mad. I still remember the last FIFA i've brought...long, long ago. With all this talking from their programmers how great the AI this time is etc and then all they did was basicaly just pump up the speed of opponent defenders for like 50%, made computer be able to score from one and only chance and made your team miss like 90% of your chances...... and voila!! "Great, challenging AI" indead. (Sounds familiar?)
Anyway... they fooled me once, maybe even twice before but then i've decided that this was the last FIFA game i've ever bought. I've seen FIFA06, it's not bad at all...but i really don't care. Never again will i spend a buck on ANY EA game.
In short: they lied - not once, not "just" twice - they have really gone too far - so **** em. :ewan:
If only there would be more people like me, eh? Imagine all good games we could play instead of just "adoring great graphics and hoping for better gameplay in next year's version" ..year after year, every damn year.

And i fear Konami is going in the same direction with PES.
All this big talk how perfect their game is. Nope. Far from it.

Because i still love PES series i'm still willing to give next year PES a chance.
I will wait, no problem, i just hope they really make it right this time.
....But somehow i have this sad feeling it will be the last PES i'll ever play and i won't be playing it much at all...
Something just ain't right with Konami this days...

KONAMI: GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASS AND FOR ONCE DO WHAT YOU SHOULD AND COULD DO IN PES5 - IMPLEMENT SOME GOOD, FAIR AI IN THE NEXT YEAR'S VERSION, OR ELSE .... :ewan: %&$&#%"#!!!!!!!!!!!

So.. yup.. this year no more PES5 for me. This year i'm going back to Winning eleven 7:I ( :) ) and to - like always when i feel cheated in a computer soccer game - the ultimate, undefeatable champion of (arcade but 100% fun) soccer glory - World of Sensible soccer.
 

niceman

Senior Squad
Golaso said:
Playing PES5 is frustrating. That's it.
And i don't like frustrating games. Games should be fun. And fair.
SAD, IRREFUTABLE FACT IS: In PES5 computer cheats LIKE HELL.

Just an example from my last match:
ML Cup final.
(And i mean LAST match - just sold my PES5 to a friend because i can't stand games like this one. I JUST CAN'T :ewan: )

I score early in the first half but then "the fun" starts:
-I'm going 1-1 on goal and i get fouled from behind from the last defender. Red card? No. Not even yellow.
Just a free kick.
This happened 4!! times in this game.
Then.. computer had a similar chance and i made a foul like that...sure..i've got red card.
WHATEVER.
KONAMI??!?!?! What the f*** have you done?!?!? :kader:

-I nicely create an open space for my striker up ahead so i just do a through ball and striker is free to score but at that very moment i get fouled. The ball comes to streaker but the refeere stops the game. No advantage rule. WTF?!?!?!??!?!
-This too happened like 5 times in this match. Everytime the same old story - just after doing the final pass and the striker is free to go 1-1 with the keeper i get fouled and the gameplay stops....
KONAMI??!?!?! What the f*** are you doing?!?!? :kader:

Then.. another Konami deja vu syndrome comes in in the last minutes of the game - my computer controlled defender makes a totally unnecessary tackle in my penalty area and.. penalty, 1-1.
I've won this match after extra time... BUT... somehow it just does not feel right. AT ALL.

You know...this game is not bad BUT... like i said i don't like cheating. It drives me mad. I still remember the last FIFA i've brought...long, long ago. With all this talking from their programmers how great the AI this time is etc and then all they did was basicaly just pump up the speed of opponent defenders for like 50%, made computer be able to score from one and only chance and made your team miss like 90% of your chances...... and voila!! "Great, challenging AI" indead. (Sounds familiar?)
Anyway... they fooled me once, maybe even twice before but then i've decided that this was the last FIFA game i've ever bought. I've seen FIFA06, it's not bad at all...but i really don't care. Never again will i spend a buck on ANY EA game.
In short: they lied - not once, not "just" twice - they have really gone too far - so **** em. :ewan:
If only there would be more people like me, eh? Imagine all good games we could play instead of just "adoring great graphics and hoping for better gameplay in next year's version" ..year after year, every damn year.

And i fear Konami is going in the same direction with PES.
All this big talk how perfect their game is. Nope. Far from it.

Because i still love PES series i'm still willing to give next year PES a chance.
I will wait, no problem, i just hope they really make it right this time.
....But somehow i have this sad feeling it will be the last PES i'll ever play and i won't be playing it much at all...
Something just ain't right with Konami this days...

KONAMI: GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASS AND FOR ONCE DO WHAT YOU SHOULD AND COULD DO IN PES5 - IMPLEMENT SOME GOOD, FAIR AI IN THE NEXT YEAR'S VERSION, OR ELSE .... :ewan: %&$&#%"#!!!!!!!!!!!

So.. yup.. this year no more PES5 for me. This year i'm going back to Winning eleven 7:I ( :) ) and to - like always when i feel cheated in a computer soccer game - the ultimate, undefeatable champion of (arcade but 100% fun) soccer glory - World of Sensible soccer.

I totally agree on the first part about the AI cheating...

But PES 5 is such an improvement over previous versions. It is much more realistic...but i too hate the AI cheating...getting 1-1 and having 18-4 shots is ridiculous!
 

deluxxe

Youth Team
Maichal1616 said:
The problem is most of the games in PES 5 are dull. Every single team plays this dumb bunker defence + counter attack strategy, which results in those 0-0 draw streaks with the occasional 1-0 or 2-1 wins inbetween.

yep. exactly. this is my biggest complaint with PES5. Playing four 0-0 ties in a row is simply not fun. period. Going through an entire cup tourney without conceding a single goal is, again, NOT FUN. I'm not sure how much longer i can put up with this game.
 

canucklehead79

Youth Team
deluxxe said:
yep. exactly. this is my biggest complaint with PES5. Playing four 0-0 ties in a row is simply not fun. period. Going through an entire cup tourney without conceding a single goal is, again, NOT FUN. I'm not sure how much longer i can put up with this game.

I'm with you, this is the first PES that has actually bored me. A few more games I think, then I'm done... although, heh, I keep saying that but here I am, still playing this garbage. It's oddly addictive... just like crack.
 

niceman

Senior Squad
deluxxe said:
yep. exactly. this is my biggest complaint with PES5. Playing four 0-0 ties in a row is simply not fun. period. Going through an entire cup tourney without conceding a single goal is, again, NOT FUN. I'm not sure how much longer i can put up with this game.

Wtf r u talking about. I seldom have games ending 0-0...btw i play 15 minutes!
 

Gnidrologist

Youth Team
I'm usually having a high scoring matches. Maybe because I'm playing quite wreckless attacking football ala Barca. Scoring many and also consedeng quite a few.
Maybe you get those 0-0, 1-0 games because of your playing style which is purely defensive.
 

niceman

Senior Squad
Gnidrologist said:
I'm usually having a high scoring matches. Maybe because I'm playing quite wreckless attacking football ala Barca. Scoring many and also consedeng quite a few.
Maybe you get those 0-0, 1-0 games because of your playing style which is purely defensive.

I also play offensive...3-4-3...3 defenders and 1 DMF rest is offensive sh!t!
 

Maichal1616

Youth Team
Gnidrologist said:
I'm usually having a high scoring matches. Maybe because I'm playing quite wreckless attacking football ala Barca. Scoring many and also consedeng quite a few.
Maybe you get those 0-0, 1-0 games because of your playing style which is purely defensive.

I for one use strategy, which should be offensive enough, yet I still score very few. And I know, that's basically my problem, since it is possible to score more, but I'm just not able to break up bunker defence. I just don't know how to. But the biggest problem isn't that at all, thing is, CPU DOESN'T score too. There's really no difference if I play all attack or all defend, they're just not able to create anything. They score only at will, trough cheating. I mean, atm I play dutch league with Roda JC, who are certainly not among the greatest in this league. Yet I conceded a total of 13 goals in my first season and was second after PSV (won the cup). I too play 15 minutes games, but its still no joy. And it's 10 times easier to beat teams like PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax than the weakest sides of the league. Whenever they push up, even a bit, I can score. But those sh|te sides bunkering the whole 90 minutes shouldn't be unbeatable like that. It's the same in other leagues as well. It's so much easier to beat Chelsea than it is to beat Sunderland. And the games are rarely any fun, there's no thrill when the CPU can't put any pressure on you.
 

Gnidrologist

Youth Team
Your experience sounds very weird to me, Maichal. I always feel when I play against Chelesea, Madrid and alike. Especially Real. Soo tough to beat, Ronaldo going alone for free shot too damn often. Last match I played against them I lost 4-5(!) in overtime myself being Barca.
On contrary, I almost always crush crap sides who can only defend. At least one goal, but usually 2-5. And I'm playing 15 minutes too.
 

deluxxe

Youth Team
well i just don't get it. i experiment a ton with different strategies and teams. It just doesn't seem to make a difference for me. The CPU does not score enough on me to make the game interesting. The only way i can make this game mildly interesting is by doing CUP tourneys and trying to match myself up against the toughest squads. Even then, the cpu barely scores. And like Maichal says... They only seem to score when they have to, and they rarely do it legitimately.
 

Maichal1616

Youth Team
Gnidrologist said:
Your experience sounds very weird to me, Maichal. I always feel when I play against Chelesea, Madrid and alike. Especially Real. Soo tough to beat, Ronaldo going alone for free shot too damn often. Last match I played against them I lost 4-5(!) in overtime myself being Barca.
On contrary, I almost always crush crap sides who can only defend. At least one goal, but usually 2-5. And I'm playing 15 minutes too.

Well I don't know then, but I just started a Premier League season as Man Utd, beat Liverpool 3-0 with ease then struggled a 1-1 draw against West Brom (they scored from a penalty kick caused by my CPU controlled player running into their striker). And that's how it goes for me, no matter the league or the team I use.
 


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