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Screw Konami

simakperrce

Reserve Team
Wow, if the great Wolf himself is losing his wits, then something MUST be wrong here.
However, I agree. I've been saying this more or less for years now. Usually getting the signature replies from the fanboy police. this time i thought (after playing the demo) that they actually fixed all these cheats. well, they didn't. you just have to play long enough and it'll all rerturn in it's nasty glory.

stopped playing it. will pick up again in a while, hoping it doesn't bother me anymore. But i totally feel with you, Wolf.
 

Velazquez

Club Supporter
anyone noticed that when there's stoppage time and the computer has the ball, the time never ends?

also, when the cpu send through balls, the only player that falls asleep is one of your defenders who is the one supposed to intercept the ball
 

Damo7

Youth Team
You no what weve been so spoiled with this game that we have all turned into a bunch of moaners.....these football games have come on so much in the last 5 years and will again...and we will still moan about something :boohoo:
 

Snowy

Club Supporter
Gnidrologist said:
What really gets me mad in Pes5 is cpu making intentional fouls just about when you're about to go one on one with keeper or make the idieal through pass. They seem to know that I'm having/will have an excellent opening and pulls my player by the shirt or pushes to the ground. And the cheat thing in this is that even if you're player stays on legs and could easely continue run to create good one on one/ two on one situation the ref ALWAYS stops the play. For some sort of reason AI thinks, that it's more to my advantage executing a free kick from 30 meters than to go one on one with lonely goalie.

The advantage rule is totally ****ed up and only works when can be beneficial to cpu team. This wouldn't be so important if cpu team wouldn't comit about 25 fouls in each game and 3-5 of them are usually ''last chance'' ones that are commited to prevent my breakthrough.

This is one of my two major gripes with the game.

The other one is the stupid offside rule. If my defender cuts out an AI offside pass, why does the ref still stop the play? Similarly when I make an pass to a player who is offside, but the AI intercepts the ball, the ref blows offside. This added to the 101 fouls make the game a nightmare of stop-starts.
 

ozivillan

Youth Team
I think some people need to get out and play on the swings :boohoo: , i have played about 8 games now, scored only twice (one a pen), i'm bottom of the table, and i'm loving every minute of it :ewan:, ok i'm off now, to get beaten by those cheating Konami B*%@*^!S :wootman:
 

The_Knight

Senior Squad
I see MANY are confusing REALISM with DIFFICULTY.

For instance, you have many unrealistic ways of making a pass 'harder', but only one way to make it more real.

It's not real, the way the ball bumps and jumps and bounces in short passes. WATCH REAL TV.

It's not real, the way a player like ZIDANE has difficulty controlling a normally approaching ball, unmarked.

It's not real, how the players DIE -not lose stamina- but DIE at the end of the game. And how a player like Ronaldo can BARELY play do games in a row. This is NOT REALISTIC.

You see, by making the ball's path more 'irregular'... and the players' control of it LESS, and by making their stamina VAPORIZE... well sure the game is harder and more challenging. But it's also FAR LESS REALISTIC and far less enjoyable.

They screwed the game up after the demo. Something happened in between.

Just turn on a game on TV, and watch how average players pass the ball smoothly to each other. How they smoothly take control of the ball, and pass it around the field. Nothing unrealistic about that. Now turn on PES5 and watch the clumsy TOP-NOTCH players as they strive to control the helium-ball in what seems to be a rocky soccer field. This is far from real people.

More difficult gameplay is something, and more realistic gameplay is a totally other thing.

However, I do believe that PES5's gameplay has been done in a hurry. And that PES5/WE9 is a logical transition, between PES4 and PES6... which I guess will be a far far better game. It's just sad how we have to put up with PES5 for a whole year. Specially that the demo's gameplay was near perfect.

Don't get me wrong. I do win 3-0 and 4-0 on 5*..... but the purpose of this game is not only to win, but to win realistically and with an enjoyable realistic gameplay. This is far from it.

Thumbs down Konami. Lose the clumsy players please.
 

CopeCOwBoy

Reserve Team
pog88 said:
guys, look - your getting ultra emotional! what other game has that ability on people? nothing, apart from the actual game of football which is all about highs and lows.

This year they have made a scary realistic representation of football, and thus it requires more concentration and desire to win


thier called geeks, these dumbas morons will stick up for the game no matter the problem, these poeple need to get outta the house more, I love the game personly, but i noticed that some of these poeple would try to back the game if the players had no heads.
 

Snowy

Club Supporter
The_Knight said:
I see MANY are confusing REALISM with DIFFICULTY.

For instance, you have many unrealistic ways of making a pass 'harder', but only one way to make it more real.

It's not real, the way the ball bumps and jumps and bounces in short passes. WATCH REAL TV.

It's not real, the way a player like ZIDANE has difficulty controlling a normally approaching ball, unmarked.

The first hint that this is not *real* is when you realise that you are playing football that lasts 10 mins!!!!!!!!!!!! Wake up dude!!

If Zidane performed perfectly for that 10 mins, it would mean that in real life he had performed every single pass to perfection for the whole NINETY mins! The player's weaknesses and skills are condensed into 10 mins because this is a GAME.

When I started playing on 3 stars, I felt that the comp was cheating, fouls galore, henry unable to outrun titus bramble, endless interceptions. Then when I got to 5*, I felt the same things again. Now I am better at 5*, the fouls are less, I manage to elude bramble easily with Henry, the comp. loses on a consistent basis, and I don't feel they cheat anymore!

I introduce my brother to the game. After a few games at 3 stars he moans like a bitch and complains about all the same stuff that everyone, including me, have moaned about at some time or another.

I take over his controller, on 3*, and suddenly my players are performing at a level he cannot achieve. There is hardly any fouls, my passes are fluid, Zidane controls and passes like the master he is [he never stumbles when I play on 3 stars] I get lots of 1-1, scoring chances galore, my men slam in 3 in a row. I ask my brother "when you see me play, do you feel the comp is cheating?".
 

Hans

How big is YOUR penis?
The ultimate cheat the CPU ever layed down on me is when I was facing an empty goal, suddenly the game has to be stopped cos' one of my team-mates got injured in the other half of the pitch :kader:

After that I stopped playing for two days cos' I'm freakin' tired to be cheated.

And one more thing I noticed that playing against human is far more better, one of the reason cos' there are less fouls. I can make 6 succesive sliding tackles without being called, while playing against the CPU even the slightest touch could earn you a foul.

I also feel the same feeling as the Wolf feels, the CPU is taking control of my other players during critical moments of the game, and yeah during extra time when the CPU is holding the ball,the time is endless unless you win it, and mostly you can't cos whenever you try to steal is a foul call,so you'll have to wait until the freekick is taken and hopefully gain possesion.

Having said that against CPU I also get called for a light touch, my advise is just break 'em legs all together with a sliding tackles. Cos no matter how precise is your timing,if the CPU don't wanna lose possesion,it would be a foul call.

This is the worst WE ever. Realism is good for one point. But adding too much of it plus making the CPU cheats is not good at all. I'm playing WE to have a good sportsmanship competition with a well developed AI, not to be frustated with a cheater.

Konami needs to fix these, I'm going back playing WE 8 now . . .
 

Shards

Youth Team
Well, I am pretty much a PES newb. Played a bit of 4, but not enough to really give it a chance.

BUT, been playing 5 like 90 and i do like it. Took a while to get the controls going but what helps me, and all you vets will laugh - and still otherwise complain- is, leaving the auto-switch on 2 or 3 bars.

I'm on 5* level, and I'm gradually getting the hang of PES5's nuances. I did some edit tweaks to over come the lack of player acceleration and response and now, on 5*, am playing some really cool, competitive matches.

I admit I am a soccer/footie sim player from just recently but PES5 is a sweet game.

Whine all you want but, they made an EDIT menu for a reason - and if ya dont like or agree with some gameplay aspects, fix them until u do!

Hey, it could be worse -it could be a basketball sim we are all hooked on... :kader:
 

Hans

How big is YOUR penis?
Shards said:
I'm on 5* level, and I'm gradually getting the hang of PES5's nuances. I did some edit tweaks to over come the lack of player acceleration and response and now, on 5*, am playing some really cool, competitive matches.

I admit I am a soccer/footie sim player from just recently but PES5 is a sweet game.

Whine all you want but, they made an EDIT menu for a reason - and if ya dont like or agree with some gameplay aspects, fix them until u do!
That's exactly why I'm dissapointed. In the previous WEs or PES we don't need to tweak the skills via edit mode, cos' both the computer AI and the human controlled team are well balanced. A player with an 90 attributes of pace on the human controlled team is the same with a player with a 90 attributes of pace on the CPU team. In WE 9 what you got at some point of the game it seems that your players attributes are cut off to nearly 10 points.
 

Gnidrologist

Youth Team
Have you guys also noticed that throwins are kinda frustrating most of the time? If in We8 I could get all sorts of different outcoms like pasing the ball back to thrower without a problem or making a throughball further on the wing or passing to the middle of the pitch after ball has been received. Now throwins are very sluggish and I would loose a ball on 50% occasions if trying to make something other than passback to defender. reveiver always seem to stand to close to thrower and touchline which I can't alter and he usually receives ball clumsy, like bumping the ball in the air with he's chest or deflecting it with he's ankle and so on.
And why does throwin on to player's run doesn't work anymore? I mean the one which you made with triangle /\ key in pes3/we8.
 

The_Knight

Senior Squad
Snowy said:
The first hint that this is not *real* is when you realise that you are playing football that lasts 10 mins!!!!!!!!!!!! Wake up dude!!
Thanks for bringing that to my attention... I can't believe I was actually missing on such a crucial point. d-uh.

BTW, I hardly do any fouls during this '10 min' game. But the fact remains, neither the ball, nor the players, react this way in real-life. It has nothing to do with 10min-90 min. The ball physics are over done. And so is the player clumsiness. And all in the sake of making the game 'harder'... well it came at a price. The game looks so clumsy.

Plus, fatigue is alright. Fatigue is real. But having Ronaldo (in a very good shape) have is stamina bar down to ZERO after 1.5 games, is just crappy programming. Zidane's stamina falls to 20% after 3/4 a match. This is TERRIBLE programming.

Watch a game on TV and see how the ball slides on the ground. And observe how average players take control of it. This has nothing to do with 10min/90 min games.... The ball physics and players' handling of the ball have got to change.
 

Snowy

Club Supporter
The_Knight said:
The ball physics are over done. And so is the player clumsiness. And all in the sake of making the game 'harder'... well it came at a price. The game looks so clumsy.

You seem to have missed the whole point of my post :rolleyes: . The players become less clumsy the better you get. They are clumsy because you are controlling them incorrectly. That's why when my bro plays me, he trips all over the place. I actually have the ability to do that to him. His men stumble around like drunks, passes are intercepted by me, they get the ball, turn to run towards my goalie and stumble. He gets frustrated. To him, my men are all Zidanes.

I tell him I got over my hangups about the game and that's why I progressed. And I thought long and hard about the stumbles after I went online and got my butt handed to me on a platter...numerous times..time after time. That's when I realised that the art of not stumbling, and how make people stumble...can be learned.

I tell my bro, here are some choices :-

1.) you tell yourself the AI is cheating, chuck your controller out of the window and stop playing the game.
2.) you tell yourself that it's your problem because if another human being can progress and learn how not to stumble...so can you.
3.) you go back to playing 2 stars.
4.) you cry and whine and promise yourself never to buy another konami game.

The_Knight said:
Plus, fatigue is alright. Fatigue is real. But having Ronaldo (in a very good shape) have is stamina bar down to ZERO after 1.5 games, is just crappy programming. Zidane's stamina falls to 20% after 3/4 a match. This is TERRIBLE programming.

I agree with you on this. It's simply mind boggling that Iker Casillas gets fatigue after a few games and needs to be rested for one game. Didnt Konami realise that Petr Cech went thru the whole season and only let in a handful of goals...doh. On the other hand, fatigue has its advantages. I edited the starting lineup and had my team in div 1 straight away. I noticed that the top teams like Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea lose or draw games during the time where they have Champions League matches...while I have none ... hehe.

The_Knight said:
Watch a game on TV and see how the ball slides on the ground. And observe how average players take control of it. This has nothing to do with 10min/90 min games.... The ball physics and players' handling of the ball have got to change.

When I get my ass handed to me online, I noticed how my opponents average players slide the ball on the ground, how they control and handle it.... and how they proceed to kick my ass. I made up my mind that they are human just like me...and what they can do... I can do.
 

kschoice

Youth Team
Guys, even if I know The Wolf doesn't want to brag about it, he's coaching a soccer team for a living. So if someone knows about realism, for heaven's sake, that's him !

Nonetheless, I would point out that according to me, the fact a player you doesn't control give away a FK or even a PK is not that bad, what is frustrating is that each and every initiative of CPU controlled teammates is poor, and there is such a big number of other obvious cheats / flaws.

Let's discuss a thing that is crucial to any game where two players/teams challenge each other : balance. Let's see why Human against CPU games in PES have never been balanced :

CPU controlled teammates initiatives : Making fouls, even granting PKs and FKs, why not ? It's part of soccer anyway. But why do they only clear the ball when there's no one around, and keep it in their foot and turn towards the opponent the rest of the time ?

Control switch : Either in manual/semi-auto (which I would call semi-auto/auto) mode, a human player often has to hit the L1 button several times to get control of the player he wants. During this time they :
_ lose time on what they want that player to do.
_ all players they gain control of in the meantime stop running or start running in an opposite direction they were for a brief moment, thus putting them out of position in the action.
And that only if you're lucky enough to stop this control-change rally on the right player, because even in Manual mode, CPU will change player control for you just a fraction of a second before you hit L1, and bam !, you've missed the right player.
Also why is a player running towards his own goal (backwards) always favored by the control-switch engine to a player running forward ? Does that make sense to anyone ?

Stamina : has anyone ever seen a CPU controlled opponent get tired ? Have you ever wondered why you can't see how tired CPU players get ? To me, all that leads to the fact they never get tired, especially from game to game, whereas the human player has to deal with players that can't play three games in a row, EVEN GOALKEEPERS, who in real life usually play all their teams' games. In ML, players often come back from international games as tired as if they had played 10 complete games.

Passes : one major flaw that has been there forever in the winning eleven series. Every time the human player makes a pass that gets intercepted by the CPU, this pass is powered exactly so as to make a perfect pass to the intercepter. More than that, almost every "bad" pass is aimed directly at an opponent's feet. How can one call that realistic ? A bad pass is a pass which direction and/or power is on some random amount different from what the player planned. Therefore most of the time these passes should just go out of reach of any player, which isn't the case in the game.
When two players are eligible for a pass, the CPU will virtually always choose the player who is marked, or unreachable.
Countered passes : another flaw that has been there forever. When a human pass is touched by a CPU opponent, wherever this touch leads the ball, the player the ball was aimed at stops his run. Even if the ball trajectory has barely changed. The player remains blocked for some time, and therefore loses a ball that was completely playable.
Penalty kicks : It is more than about time to change the PK system. I want to miss the goal myself, not on random. There is no problem in making a FK-like system where the player would control the risk he takes in his aiming and power, and it would be much more satisfying.


Don't get me wrong. Pro Evolution Soccer is by far the most evolved soccer game ever done, and PES 5 is brilliant in terms of realism, especially compared to PES 4. But as the game gets more and more realistic, these flaws are getting more and more frustrating.
What I blame Konami for is not to try and make the CPU able of brilliant moves to beat you fair and square when they have a much better team than yours. And allow the reverse to be true. This way they wouldn't have to ruin your play to give the CPU a chance based on anything but luck (bad luck, to the player's point of view).
In PES 5, there seems to be some progress because the CPU seldom concludes moves when he's one-on-one on goal, but there is still much to do.


Another very poor thing I want to share about is the Master League : despite the fact that game modes are by far easier to improve than the game engine, it has barely changed between PES 3 and PES 5 and is SO unrealistic.

_ I would raise again the stamina problem (see above). In Master League, it means that you almost never play with your best eleven. Even your top goalkeeper can't play four games in a row.
_ Only four leagues when we finally have all clubs from England, Spain, Germany, France, Italy and Holland plus other european teams ? Currently the game holds 138 clubs, and we use only 72 for Master League. We need at least 7 leagues, rather 8 in order to easily set up a 32-team Champions League.
_ 16-team leagues ? The obvious reason for that is to make it easy for setting up the League Cup... Why not a 20-team first league and a 12-team second league, and all those teams in the same cup, which will also make the cup more interesting.
_ Transfers : currently proposal => accept/refuse. How poor... We need to know why the offer was refused, and how to make it better. At least if for example I have to buy a CF, I would like to be able to make offers for three different CFs without risking to hire all of them. I would like to choose the one(s) I want based on the offers result. On the same level, when I am asked to sell a player, I would like to be able to make sure I have a replacement before accepting. ALSO : Why the hell do I have to pay a substantial amount more than the market price, whereas CPU teams won't even pay me half the price market, based on my experience so far ?
_ To be fair, it seems Konami has made a right move on the player progress thing. Players now make progress even if they don't play, which makes more sense (not forcing you to make your young players play all the time if you want them to progress, therefore making it barely impossible to make older players play). I do think though that players outside of your squad still don't progress, which would be REALLY poor.

And I do think, as others said here, that if we want Konami to fix flaws, we have to talk about them. It has worked, it will work again.
 

Afro Thunder

Club Supporter
The worst is when you are winning by one goal and yours players just sleeps and the cpu scores at final seconds...arrrghhh Konami...I hate you... (6)
 

MasterM

Senior Squad
i must say pes5 finally become more scripted than fifa..........
pes5 has more bugs than fifa06.
pes5 doesnt seem "finished" this year.
Konami need to do something
 

Socrates

Starting XI
MasterM said:
i must say pes5 finally become more scripted than fifa..........
pes5 has more bugs than fifa06.
pes5 doesnt seem "finished" this year.
Konami need to do something

Thats the bad thing though, Fifa is too sh!t to play so all we have left is PES 5. PES 4 has its own porblems and the only one that i actually had no complaints about is PES 3 but i only have an Xbox and i dont like playing it on the PC.

To Snowy...you cant be serious?? Controlling them incorecctly? if i make a pass to Zidane with noone around him i expect to take control of it easily, not make it hard for himself and somehow lose control of the ball. Or if i am not holding turbo but somehow they push the ball infront of them and never catch up to it. Another one that is great is a pass where your player jumps over the ball and lets it go out instead of controlling it. Snowy this are mistakes by Konami just like the shooting system is a mistake in this game and the GK are numbnuts that stand there like retards on long shots because of the flaw of the shots in this game.

Some of you people need to stop defending this game and start pointing out the mistakes ( as well as the good things in this game ) in this game and hope that Konami fixes them in the next version so that it is more playable/enjoyable instead of a game where its not as good as expected but its better than anything else out there. All in all Konami ****ed up and they need to get back on track. BTW i dont play against the CPU because i find it boring, i just like playing it agianst my friends.
 


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