Russia vs. Georgia conflict

[Help?]

I'm surprised that nobody started talking about it yet in here. Anyway, i'm looking for some unbiased opinion of what you guys think about this. I have heard a lot from the American news (which are basically news reported by Georgia) and i read a lot from Russian news. So here is what i got so far.



Russia claims that on Thursday morning Georgian army attacked South Ossetia and its capital, killing 10 Russian peacemakers as well as over 2,000 civilians. Since people in South Ossetia are considered almost russian, they cried for help and Russia reacted immediately to help them out, sending a very strong force into Georgia. A fight escalated and Russian army occupied all of South Ossetia, as well as some reinforcements in Abhazia to avoid such conflict there as well. However, they have not crossed the border of South Ossetia yet.


Now Georgia claims that, Russians were accumulating forces on the border of Georgia for a long time and on Thursday midday decided to strike, with single purpose of overthrowing the government and overtaking all of Georgia under their control eventually. They would start with South Ossetia, since people there are considered Russian and have russian citizenships, so it would be the easiest spot to conquer first. As of now, the Russian Army has taken over South Ossetia, Abhazia, city of Gori and are on the door steps to Tbilisi



Two very different stories, with one side claiming that they are not moving any further than the area occupied by their people, while the other side says that they are the victims of complete genocide. Personally, i think both sides are not telling the whole truth here, although i'm leaning closer to the Russian side because Saakashvili is known to be an idiot and a liar. And also that video where he is giving interview in Tbilisi and then looks at the clear sky and runs for cover as if hearing airplanes coming, looks pretty rehearshed to me, as all the guys just did was cover him with bulletproof vests like a little bunker and everybody else would just stand there. But then again, the Russians claimed to not come close to Gori, while CNN had a reporter confirm that they have overtaken it.


Now, how does USA fit into all of this? Georgia wants to join NATO and they also have a gas pipeline, which is not owned by Russia, which Americans would rather Russian not own for a long time.

 

[Hopeunited]

After hearing that beautiful Soviet anthem over and over again, and watching the breathtaking Red October over and over again, all I have to say is Vpreot Rossia!

Seriously now thought, if the Russian story is correct, then Georgia is stupid. Russia is clearly and clearly has been getting ready to pounce at any opportunity, and if Georgia made the first move by attacking South Ossetia, then that was the perfect excuse for Russia to move in and pound their asses back to Tbilisi. It almost sounds too dumb, so I can't really believe Russia's version. I saw the news showing Saakashvili's bodyguards trying to make a meat castle to cover him from "overhead fighter jets" today, it looked pretty fake and pathetic, haha. A meat wall is gonna do that much for him when a bomb lands on the street. And those bodyguards didn't even make an attempt to tell off the cameraman. So now I can't believe Georgia's version either.

But to be honest, I think chances are Russia probably initiated it. They are clearly the far more powerful side, and with Vladimir Putin attending the Olympics, it's a good excuse to pretend that they were not planning but only responding to an attack. I'm pretty sure no matter how stupid Saakashvili is, Georgia is smart enough to realize their place on the food chain, and would not make the first offensive. So yeah I'm leaning towards Russia punishing Georgia for trying to join NATO and using the Olympics as a good opportunity to develop the cover-up story.

 

[Bonzi]

 

[Back Door Skip]

I laughed at that cartoon. Does that make me a bad person?

 

[Bonzi]

When one wants to cease hostilities, one doesn't make no ostensible statements, one doesn't make no propositions, one doesn't send no negotiators. One decides it's time to cease hostilities and one does cease hostilities. Just like Dmitry Medvedev did today. Unlike Mikheil Saakashvili did earlier.

 

[Help?]

Reports today from Russia say that they halted the attacks and now moving back out of the center of Georgia into South Ossetia. Which strategically does actually make a lot of sense. They wanted to protect their people in separatist states, so they sent in troops for aid, but instead of ******* it up like USA did with Iraq, which turned into a 5+ years of failure, they went all out and made sure that Georgian army was pegged back so far back and so scared that they wouldn't even consider coming close to the Russian borders. Russians also reported that they arrested a number of Georgian special agents who were planning on performing terrorist attack on Russia land (unconfirmed by neutral source).

Now Georgia countered the cease-fire action by Russia, by claiming that Russians are still attacking and they bombed two small villages outside of South Ossetia (unconfirmed by neutral) and bombed an oil pipeline (confirmed FALSE by the British company that owns the pipelie, which undermined Georgia's credibility even further).


IF Russia indeed DID halt their attack and everything they said is true, which seems likely right now, then you could call it a very succesfull mission. Something Bush/McCain should learn from maybe? Instead of calling it disproportionate. Their last "proportionate" attack in Iraq contributed to the decline in their country's economy and raised massive amounts of debts, as well as huge losses. Nevermind the fact that almost an "overnight" mission turned into years of fighting.

 

[Deisler]

So if Ossetia seeks Indipendence why would Russia oppose to the Kosovo Indipendence? Kinda hypocritical no?

 

[Bobby]

So if Ossetia seeks Indipendence why would Russia oppose to the Kosovo Indipendence? Kinda hypocritical no?

Could ask about another place involving Russia too...

 

[Help?]

So if Ossetia seeks Indipendence why would Russia oppose to the Kosovo Indipendence? Kinda hypocritical no?

I don't think Russia wants Ossetia to be fully independent. I believe they want Ossetia to become part of Russia. Don't hold me for it though, i might be wrong.

 

[Deisler]

Which is kinda worse thann actually wanting their independence. Here they are claiming that by allowing Kosovo to declare independence another countries territories are being violated (Serbias in this case). How would taking some other countries lands than sound? I think what Russia is doing is simply occupy another country.

 

[Hopeunited]

So if Ossetia seeks Indipendence why would Russia oppose to the Kosovo Indipendence? Kinda hypocritical no?

So if Kosovo seeks independence then why would the USA oppose South Ossetia independence?

Hypocracy is everywhere.

 

[Help?]

Which is kinda worse thann actually wanting their independence. Here they are claiming that by allowing Kosovo to declare independence another countries territories are being violated (Serbias in this case). How would taking some other countries lands than sound? I think what Russia is doing is simply occupy another country.

Well no, they would want Ossetia to join and people in Ossetia are pushing to join as well, but Russia isn't being very aggresive about it. Saakshvilli, just did a huge mistake in attempting to kick the separatist people off that land by lethal force and that added to his other exploits built up on Russia, so they retaliated. Saakshvilli was hoping that Russia wouldn't care about it and as a plan B in case they did, he would plead for help and have UN and USA put Russia in their place. Where he messed up is that he underestimated Russia and now looks like a very desperate liar. The amount of bull**** that has been said in the media is unbeliavable. 95% of the reports are what the Georgian officials said, who are as credible as George Bush. But USA obviously wants Georgia to stay independent because a lot of oil is at stake. That's why its been all about Russia invading Georgia and barely anything about Georgia attacking innocent civilians.



This conflict is most likely more political than just Russia protecting its people, but to me it seems like it was Georgia's fault for starting it, they should have known better, now they gotta suffer the concequences. Its like a kid at the playground bullies some skinny child half his age and then a guy much bigger comes to the aid of the child and punishes the bully. And the bully cries for help as if its undeserved. Why did you jump in in the first place? I guarantee that if Lukashenko for whatever dumb reason decided to attack Russian forces as well, Belarus will probably be erased off the face of Earth. Or just the president.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Someone Sniper Lukashenko Damn it!

BTW, I did start a thread on this

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Hypocracy is everywhere.

Thank you!

Sarkozy's plan is bull****; it was just between the EU and Russia, only to be presented later to Georgia.

Georgia will never accept negotiations on the final status of Abkhazia beyond it being an integral part of its territory. And after the massacres that took place there? Just because now there's an overwhelming majority, they should have independence? Abkhazia is just like Republika Srpska in Bosnia, a homogenous state created from ethnic-cleansing.

Russia shouldn't have peacekeepers anywhere in the near-abroad. Their interests compromise their impartiality.

As for the negotiations, Georgia will take Russia to the ICJ over the war in 1993.

 

[Bobby]

Weren't there some in the Russian far-right who wanted Lukashenko to run for President of Russia? How would that be possible?

 

[RobbieD_PL]

That's all to do with the Belarus-Russia Union.

Some nutjobs think that Putin isn't badass enough, so they wanna replace him with Lukashenko.

 

[Deisler]

Abkhazia is just like Republika Srpska in Bosnia, a homogenous state created from ethnic-cleansing.

Which would make it completely different from Kosovo since it has always been albanian and somehow survived ethnic-cleansing. Therefore Russias' claim to be a similar scenario would fall.

I said it, i am all for Ossetias independence, i just don't like the idea of it becoming part of Russia especially now that i found out it was 'made' to be of Russian majority.

 

[Help?]

That's all to do with the Belarus-Russia Union.

Some nutjobs think that Putin isn't badass enough, so they wanna replace him with Lukashenko.

I think the whole world will go to shi tter if we put him in power of one of the world's powerhouses. At least nobody will ever run out of bread literally, that's for sure.

 

[Help?]

Which would make it completely different from Kosovo since it has always been albanian and somehow survived ethnic-cleansing. Therefore Russias' claim to be a similar scenario would fall.

I said it, i am all for Ossetias independence, i just don't like the idea of it becoming part of Russia especially now that i found out it was 'made' to be of Russian majority.

See that creates another question. Was Russia planning on taking over South Ossetia and Abhazia all along as something of a long-term plan? As mentioned before, if they gain control over certain strategic points in Georgia, then they could control a lot of oil, in addition to what they already have, as well as they could cut off the weapon supply chain to muslims in Chechnya, who are trying to do exactly the same thing as South Ossetia only the other way around. And then Russia's biggest military failure in history would be finally over.

 

[Run DMB]

The real reason Russia halted military operations in Georgia is that they just couldn't resist 'Dre and Big Boi's funky southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, and had to put down their arms.

Ah ha, hush that fuss
Everybody move to the back of the bus
Do you wanna bump and slump with us
We the type of people make the club get crunk

Many a day has passed, the night has gone by
But still I find the time to put that bump off in your eye
Total chaos, for these playas, thought we was absent
We takin another route to represent the Dungeon Family
Like Great Day, me and my nigga decide to take the back way
We stabbing every city then we headed to that bat cave
A-T-L, Georgia, what we do for ya
Bull doggin hoes like them Georgetown Hoyas
Boy you sounding silly, thank my Brougham aint sittin pretty
Doing doughnuts round you suckas like then circles around titties
Damn we the committee gone burn it down
But us gone bust you in the mouth with the chorus now

Ah ha, hush that fuss
Everybody move to the back of the bus
Do you wanna bump and slump with us
We the type of people make the club get crunk

I met a gypsy and she hipped me to some life game
To stimulate then activate the left and right brain
Said baby boy you only funky as your last cut
You focus on the past your ass'll be a has what
Thats one to live by or either that one to die to
I try to just throw it at you determine your own adventure
Andre, got to her station here's my destination
She got off the bus, the conversation lingered in my head for hours
Took a shower kinda sour cause my favorite group ain't comin with it
But I'm witcha you cause you probably goin through it anyway
But anyhow when in doubt went on out and bought it
Cause I thought it would be jammin but examine all the flawsky-wawsky
Awfully, it's sad and it's costly, but that's all she wrote
And I hope I never have to float in that boat
Up **** creek it's weak is the last quote
That I want to hear when I'm goin down when all's said and done
And we got a new joe in town
When the record player get to skippin and slowin down
All yawl can say is them niggas earned that crown but until then till' then