Prefabricated results

[Han]

Originally posted by simakperrce
with all due respect, but even hardcore fans of the game (with the exception maybe of Han agree that the CPU has a couple of prescripted advantages in this game.

Aaaaahhhhh.... there is Simakperrce again! We will never agree I am afraid. Still I do not give up: Tell me simakperrce, can you point to my posts where I give my opinions without a valid reason? I do not say nonsense; I always come with reasons for some seemingly strange things in the game, like in this topic.
Let's take this topic for example: I say (together with Gobby, amongst others) that the so called speed-cheating is caused by different causes, like speedbursting and tackling, making the CPU look faster and your team slower.
So I give a reason for my opinion: Do you? No! Like many times before you do not go into my arguments; you do not disprove my opinion; you just say I am the only one who thinks the CPU does not cheat.
Try a real founded answer towards me next time... Good luck

 

[leaf_20]

There are people though that are winning and winning in this game, maybe with a crazy ass team, all all-stars, but nevertheless they are winning, so it must say something, it is possible to win most times if you have the team, and you have your formation right, you play the game profesionally because the gameplay is very accurate to real life, etc.

So what that tells me is that the CPU is not cheating in any way.

Hey, once in awhile the ref will though, but what can you do, that happens in real life too.

I think if people select a ref that isn't as strict also. They would have a lot more success, because it is true that we get a lot more fouls than the CPU. Its just because the CPU is made most of the time to make good tackles because the CPU calculates your position and the other player and its almost perfect all the time based on the attributes of that player.

 

[Keemo]

I could really care less if the CPU cheats but lots of games I draw or lose through no fualt of mine. If I commit defence/offence mistakes, fail to use logical formations/tactics, fail to sub tired players, fail to use player form arrows, and otherwise play sloppy then by all means I should lose or draw even to worse teams but the way games often play out in PES3 you feel as though your actions had nothing to do with the outcome thus why even play when if feels as though your not even in control of your teams' fate. The worst thing I have ever seen is the CPU ran all the way down the field during stoppage time, evading more then 5 tackles with a single player, going in the penalty box there was simply a player near him and falling down for a foul even tho I hadent even pressed a button, getting the call from the ref also tho I was playing at home. The whole game I had defended well against them and was leading 1-0. Another thing I see ALOT, and I mean almost every game is that right after I score the CPU scores, or right after the CPU scores I seem to string together a play where thier defenders and/or GK make bad mistakes giving me an easy shot. Often we both score the very next possesion after the other.

 

[leaf_20]

you are using logic when it comes to that, lets say.

but are u using logic of what purpose konami would have to do what you claim ? they would obviously know people would not like the things you are saying.

I think they programmed the cpu team to play a lot better with time running down, I dont think they programmed them to score though.

 

[Keemo]

Originally posted by leaf_20
but are u using logic of what purpose konami would have to do what you claim ? they would obviously know people would not like the things you are saying.

Not true, I have seen many sports games with "come back" AI. Even EA sports the game developer with the biggest money uses it in Madden 2004 and it almost completely ruins the game. It is also a marketing ploy to get people to think the game is more challenging. They assume the average person doesent understand enough about how AI works to even know what is it happening. Many people just assume "wow, the AI came back from 21 points down in 5 mins to beat me! they are smart! I better play the game longer cuase I cant win yet!"
About 4-5 years ago this kind AI was not used much becuase it was not widly developed and ironic enough AI was much better in top quality sports games around 1995-2000 becuase it was 100% skill based just like your average Mario bros. game.

 

[culo]

never over-estimate the power of a computer program

reading some of these posts, i really start to wonder if some people can distinguish between real life and a computer program

 

[leaf_20]

maybe there is abit of the "comeback AI".

I dont neccesarily see anything that wrong with it, as long as its not during the whole game.

but its programmed that yes the last 5 minutes they really turn it on, and whatever else.

This is just to make the game more challenging.

It doesn't change very much though.

It doesn't change that you have control of your team, and it doesn't effect what plays you want to make.

Its also intelligent in a way, because whenever teams are down, dosn't matter which team, they usually put the pressure on near the end.

With a really defensive formation though, and you having the lead, it will be difficult for them to get back even with that factor.

 

[Keemo]

Originally posted by leaf_20
maybe there is abit of the "comeback AI".
I dont neccesarily see anything that wrong with it, as long as its not during the whole game.

With a really defensive formation though, and you having the lead, it will be difficult for them to get back even with that factor.

What is wrong with it is that it takes you, the player, and your skills, out of the equation.

Yes, but they still do get back even tho you have all your strategic cards on the table.

what is really sad is it's obvious Konami has spent serious time working on an excellent skill-based system. I mean just think about all the special moves, animations, strategies and formations at your fingertips, then only to go and mess it up with this "come back" AI crap.

 

[Spurs4Life]

Look,the computer AI doesnt have it set u will win or lose thats just Bulls***. I play on 5 stars and i win almost every game of the season,i always win the CL,the league and domestic cup. But the AI does try everything to make you lose,when the strategy bar is on red for the opossing team,its impossible to get out of your own half,liverpool are so hard to beat because there bar is on red all the time even when they are 2-0 up. The ref does cheat to give the AI an advantage for sure. Han,as for subbing players off that are fatigued i tried that but u only get a chance to sub 3 players off in a match and most of your players will still be slow and sluggish after only 6 games of the season then they need rest which is totaly unrealistic and HAn NO computer doesnt get fatigue thats why i turned the option off.

 

[Keemo]

Yes, but what players are on your team?

 

[Spurs4Life]

I have good players now,but when i won the league and cup,only new player i had was rivaldo,the rest was the default ones u start with,i did it on 5 stars.

 

[shadowofanubis6]

When you feel this starting to happen, YOU HAVE TO try and control the ball as much as possible. Give it to your best midfielder or try passing it around your back line and then when they come in with their forwards and midfielders to stop it... lob it over to your midfielders and start a break that way.

 

[shadowofanubis6]

I know what this guy means tho, in my 4 master league seasons, 2 of them have come down to the final game. I only lost twice in my last one, and had to play everton (who suck) and at least tie to win division 1. Well at first im down 0-1, second half i come back and lead 2-1... 81st minute comes and my defense starts seeing huge gaps in the middle. They cross one in, 2-2. Then 86th minute their forward dribbles by ayala and thuram in my backline using amazing spin moves and agility... and fires it by buffon. I lose 3-2 and lose the title to liverpool. That IS FRUSTRATING.

 

[Ominous]

Originally posted by Han
What a nonsense! CPU is fit because they always substitute fatique players.

dont u spose others would hav noticed that??????

dont u spose others hav brains enuff to realise that its the same bloody full back that has been running up n down the feild thru 90 mins?!!!

same face, same number, same NAME!

wat is this? 6th day? cpu is cloning its players???!!!!!

n that goes for about 10 players in the same team (n im only talkin about the games where cpu seems destined to win)

ok! firstly, cpu-must-win games come once a year by chance!
n so, im not even sure that haff the ppl shouting here hav had games like that!

strategy n formation tweaking n all that crap every1 is on about!

i win 95% of my games, so if i play the same match 5 times dont u spose i would come out with sth atleast ONCE???? even a draw!

i would understand only the cpu players being xtra good

but refree absolutely against me? my passes all screwed up? my shots hittin the post more times than a basketball hittin the rim? n worst of all, every single blocks or wild shots always land in front of another cpu player!

how many times has cpu goalie cleared the ball n u find a cpu player directly under it who heads it precisely to his teammate!

hell, do all cpu players hav a special ability of POSITIONING???

1 or 2 thing rong at a time is fine, but all the elements against me, no matter how many times i play the match....?

all u ppl with REASONING skills.... y?

n dont start with the same ol crap of improve ur strategy, sub ur players bla bla bla

ill repeat for u, i win 95% of my games, so i hav absolutely no use of ppl telling me all that!

 

[Han]

Originally posted by Ominous

ill repeat for u, i win 95% of my games, so i hav absolutely no use of ppl telling me all that!

I see that you obviously feel too good for this board, according to the quote above.
You even feel too good to write normal language.
You will not make any friends overhere when you treat people using that aggressive slang to the visitors overhere.
We like good discussions overhere and not people who burst out in anger for totally nothing... that spoils the athmosphere

 

[Ominous]

Originally posted by Han
I see that you obviously feel too good for this board, according to the quote above.
You even feel too good to write normal language.
You will not make any friends overhere when you treat people using that aggressive slang to the visitors overhere.
We like good discussions overhere and not people who burst out in anger for totally nothing... that spoils the athmosphere

r u jus takin a piss at me? or do u REALLY NOT understand the reason y i said wat i said?

just for u mr han, i will explain again

the thread is full of ppl (u included) goin on n on about strategy n fatigue n proper gameplay n all that crap without even thinkin that the other person may infact b a good player too, who has the knowledge of all those things jus as well

i agree with skuzzbag... most ppl dont seem to kno wat in the hells name is actually goin on!

except DUKE777 n SKUZZBAG..... every1 else is on about the same old do-this-do-that crap! (funnily enuff, U included again)

never mind the bloody topic at hand..... sm1 jus mentioned "cpu cheating"!!! lets make sure he knows that he is NOT a good player cuz hes not doin this n this n bla bla bla!

so NOW do u understand y i said all that i did?

n btw, too good for the board? normal language? WTF man???

 

[Keemo]

Whether you have learned how to beat the CPU everytime or not what Duke777 said pretty much sums up this whole debate:

"I am not saying PES sucks blabla, it's just not my cup of tea. I want to win because I'm better + have the better team not because I manage to overcome a huge unfair computer advantage. It's pointless."

God I hope an Internet patch is made for PES3 soon and finally we can have ALL our games decided by skill.

 

[leaf_20]

Keemo, again with your comments you are going off the wagon.

Out of all the big sports in the world, success in soccer is the hardest to achieve because it is difficult to win with just skill. So get that out of your head.

Tactics, Formations, who you play where, when you sub, setting of player instructions, has a HUGE impact, and at the end of the day it is what seperates most teams.

Now, you might think you are doing something correct, but it could very well be wrong.

So I first off wanted to get that out the way. Skill doesn't mean winning at all.

Especailly since most of us, when we play, we dont manage our team well. We do not think like managers, we think we are just playing a game, like we have always been used to playing, the difference here is if you dont play the style like in real life, you will have major issues.

There are numerous people that are having success, that are winning most games.

Yes, they do have a good team, but it doesn't help prove your point.

If there are people that are winning, all the time, regardless of the fact that they have an all-star team, your point saying that there is some sort of "comeback AI" is false, because its not happening to other people.
This suggests your theory wrong and says maybe there is something else that you need to do, and there is something that you aren't doing right. (some of the things mentioned above)

I have a feeling you are doing something wrong when you think that skill wins in soccer.

When I hear someone saying that I right away think your managerial side in the game must not be very good.

not selecting the best players, not selecting the best formations, not buying the players you need, not playing the system you need to play, you are leaving some things out, not subbing at the proper times, etc.

Things that are crucial because the world of footy is very close.
One thing, one change does make a difference.

 

[Keemo]

"Tactics, Formations, who you play where, when you sub, setting of player instructions, has a HUGE impact, and at the end of the day it is what seperates most teams."

This falls under the "skill" catagory. Coaching and tactics is a "skill"

Just so you can breathe easy, I activly use the L2+ tactics keys during the game, I have 3 pre-made formations designed for different situations, Playing soccer for 4 years with my highschool I know the difference between each position of the field and the basic principles of playing a game to your best down to the last minute, win or lose.

 

[leaf_20]

yes, that is a skill.

In your post, or one of the other posts, it was not said in that context.

The way I understood it, skill - meaning a player that has all around good stats.

I was commenting that just because you have a all-star team it doesn't translate into winning. You need also the managerial SKILLS.

I was saying they may be more important then the actual skills of your players.

I was also saying the problem could be that most people on here are just not good in that managerial department.


I'm currently in University, and I also played for my HS soccer team every season.