Prefabricated results

[Keemo]

Originally posted by leaf_20
I was commenting that just because you have a all-star team it doesn't translate into winning. You need also the managerial SKILLS.

I don't play with an all-star team, I find buying up every superstar player is unrealistic, teams like Man Utd, Arsenal. Real madrid have a number of big stars but no team is every going to have ALL the stars all at one time like most people's ML teams do. I chose to play with a more common team, like your average EPL team, they may have 1-3 star players, 5-6 very good players, and 7+ above average to average players (average by professional standards), I find that more realistic, unfortunatly it means overcoming the CPU advantages is even harder.

 

[leaf_20]

Yes, I agree, and I try to play in a similar fashion.

The day when the CPU doesn't have some advantage will be the day the game is perfect. I dont know if there will be that day.

The computer, based on your positioning and movement, has moves planned out, so I dont think we will ever be on par with the CPU.

Who knows what the future will bring though.

 

[The Kop Kid]

Re: Prefabricated results

Originally posted by SkuzzbaG
In the past I have been an avid defender of the PES style of gameplay when arguing with people. But after todays experiment I'm just seriously peed off with this game and the way it has turned out since PES (1).

Playing master league I am up against Aston Villa and despite my team all having high spirits and no injuries they are playing like a bunch of girls. (Something else I have allways defended highly is the enthusiasm factor - but this isn't my problem here).

But never mind because I still manage to go up 2-0 at a half time. In the second half the ref turns against me where every bump and tackle is a regarded as a foul and I end up with 4 yellows and 2 reds. This is a record for me as I usually get no cards at all!

Of course by the end of the game I'm 4-2 down. F**ck this I think and decide to cheat, I don't mind losing by my own bad playing (or even by the girly playing factor). But I object to losing from the ref just basically penalising me for winning at half time.

So I start again, this time im winning 1-0 at half time, in 2nd half I get 1 red, 3 yellows, and i'm 3-1 down at the end. Re-load again!

3rd game. Winning 3-0 at half time! In the 2nd half I get 2 reds and no yellows. I also had to watch my star player (Salas) get chopped nastily by the defender as he is clear on goal, and had to be taken off injured. But no cards for the defender oh-no.

4th Game, 1-0 at half time and I've allready had 2 players sent off when the game decided to crash to the desktop (latest patch installed).

WTF is going on? I'm not even commiting tackles using the slide! It seems that whatever happens I'm going to be losing players during this game. This isn't right, and it definately isn't fun.

Ever heard the theory that if you give enough monkeys typewrites that one will write coherently? I think that is all that this is. Random chance, not flawed A.I . Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to smoke the other half of that crack.

 

[RaDiCal_FifA]

Originally posted by leaf_20

If there are people that are winning, all the time, regardless of the fact that they have an all-star team, your point saying that there is some sort of "comeback AI" is false, because its not happening to other people.
This suggests your theory wrong and says maybe there is something else that you need to do, and there is something that you aren't doing right. (some of the things mentioned above)

I have a feeling you are doing something wrong when you think that skill wins in soccer.

I think leaf's right! I've noticed something like "comeback AI" and CPU "cheating", but I only lose or tie 3 to 4 games per league because of that... it doesn't decide at all if I win it or lose it. By the way, I always win the league, and I almost always win every cup...

 

[RaDiCal_FifA]

Originally posted by shadowofanubis6
Then 86th minute their forward dribbles by ayala and thuram in my backline using amazing spin moves and agility... and fires it by buffon. I lose 3-2 and lose the title to liverpool. That IS FRUSTRATING.

I think your problem there is Buffon. I used him for 2 - 3 seasons. He's good, but he... this will sound paranoid (and it is), but he just gets goaled when you really don't need it. You should try Carini or Chilavert (you have to unlock him first).

 

[Daniel Jones]

I think leaf's right! I've noticed something like "comeback AI" and CPU "cheating", but I only lose or tie 3 to 4 games per league because of that... it doesn't decide at all if I win it or lose it. By the way, I always win the league, and I almost always win every cup...

If that's the case why do you even play or post here anymore? Sounds completely boring to me.

 

[RaDiCal_FifA]

Originally posted by Daniel Jones
If that's the case why do you even play or post here anymore? Sounds completely boring to me.

It's always fun to play PES or WE, even if you win a lot. That's why it's such a great game, because you can set new objectives like scoring like this, or not scoring some kind of easy goal, or attempting to do this or that.
Besides, I post here because I'm interested in the topic and like to air my opinions

 

[Daniel Jones]

It's always fun to play PES or WE, even if you win a lot. That's why it's such a great game, because you can set new objectives like scoring like this, or not scoring some kind of easy goal, or attempting to do this or that.

I'm surprised. A calm, collected response. I suppose I'm just stewing right now. I'm in 8th place right now with Arsenal in D1.

 

[Gascoigne USA]

CPU doesnt cheat... just get better thats all there is about it.. get better. Take it on the chin.. it makes you better player... and you will find that very often your players arent playing like girls, but you are playing in a rutt yourself.. and thats the #1 problem. You not the team.

 

[shadowofanubis6]

The computer players dont give you response times in the games that you "have" to win in. These games are like the final game of the season where you need points to win the group... championship games and so on. Work on your passing instead of tryin to take the cpu off the dribble. Try giving it to your best midfielders too.

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Han
Aaaaahhhhh.... there is Simakperrce again! We will never agree I am afraid. Still I do not give up: Tell me simakperrce, can you point to my posts where I give my opinions without a valid reason? I do not say nonsense; I always come with reasons for some seemingly strange things in the game, like in this topic.
Let's take this topic for example: I say (together with Gobby, amongst others) that the so called speed-cheating is caused by different causes, like speedbursting and tackling, making the CPU look faster and your team slower.
So I give a reason for my opinion: Do you? No! Like many times before you do not go into my arguments; you do not disprove my opinion; you just say I am the only one who thinks the CPU does not cheat.
Try a real founded answer towards me next time... Good luck

first of all: it was a pun, my friend... that's why i put the "" behind it. there was no bad feeling whatsoever involved.

i do know that you give substantial arguments to everything you post, and i personally prefer that much over the "i don't know what your problem is, i always win 4-0 on level 5" stuff one ocassionally reads here.

in this particular thread there is actually very little that we disagree on. it's just a different take on things. you (and gobby and others) conjure up a quite complex explanation for this so-called "speed advantage".... that's a good take, because you don't whine but give solutions of how to tackle it...

otoh it doesn't make it all the less annoying. it's still *there*. i still have Jaap Stam chasing and catching me down the sideline, even though he fumbled and fell at the middle line. now, maybe gobby or you don't have this problem, or don't care much...but i have it. and many people have it. it doesn't matter what in the end is the cause for this. the only point of value is, that it is not *realistic*. that's the whole point of the argument. and i would venture to say, that you would not even agree to that (that it is not realistic). you would say, i suppose: "when a player has the ball he must be slower".. to that i agree. but he can still be faster with the ball than Jaap Stam without, especially when the latter fell on his butt about 20 meters behind and you are Henry, or Owens or Piliniak pumped up to have speed, accel, dribbling and agility values of 95.

now, as i tried to explain, once you have *accepted* that PES uses this "trick" in order to keep the AI competitive you can find ways (such as the ones you fleshed out) to work around it. you can live with it and still enjoy the game. but to wholeheartedly *deny* that this issue exists, or try to conceal it with complicated explanations, and put the blame on the human player ("you are just not skilled enough") is, like i said and still think, false attitude.

 

[simakperrce]

Re: Re: Prefabricated results

Originally posted by The Kop Kid
Ever heard the theory that if you give enough monkeys typewrites that one will write coherently? I think that is all that this is. Random chance, not flawed A.I . Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to smoke the other half of that crack.

there is no AI as of yet which is not in one way or the other flawed. and if PES were based on "random chance" as you claim, it wouldn't be much of a soccer game in the first place.

 

[Han]

Originally posted by simakperrce
now, as i tried to explain, once you have *accepted* that PES uses this "trick" in order to keep the AI competitive you can find ways (such as the ones you fleshed out) to work around it. you can live with it and still enjoy the game. but to wholeheartedly *deny* that this issue exists, or try to conceal it with complicated explanations, and put the blame on the human player ("you are just not skilled enough") is, like i said and still think, false attitude.

I can agree with most of your post, except the last part.
Okay, there are complaints which are down to the lack of skills of the player, but that wasn't my attitude in this topic: I somewhere said that we should try to find ways to overcome these so-called cheats and as an example I told I found a way to get fewer fouls against you by a certain way of doing sliding-tackles.
I still think there must be hidden ways to overcome other "cpu-cheats", which is different than saying people have no skills; We don't know the skills, which is slightly different

 

[Gobby]

Originally posted by simakperrce
i still have Jaap Stam chasing and catching me down the sideline, even though he fumbled and fell at the middle line.... .....and you are Henry, or Owens or Piliniak pumped up to have speed, accel, dribbling and agility values of 95.

If that happened to me then maybe I'd have a different opinion of cpu speed advantage, but so far in the hundreds of games I've played, I am yet to see an example remotely similar to the one you've explained.

*edit* just had a look at Stam and Henry's speed attributes. Stam top speed is 75, Henry dribble speed is 89. Now suppose Stam is in good condition (that little green arrow pointing upwards) If i remember the value correct, that adds 12 ability points, making 87 top speed. Now suppose Henry has bad condition or even normal condition, his dribble speed would drop below that of Stam. Now we could also add fatigue to the equation, but I think you get my point already. Btw, I'm not saying the example I've given is necessarily realistic, but its possible with the coding of the game, and its far from CPU cheating.

 

[simakperrce]

suppose henry is in good condition, player fatigue turned off and stam is in mediocre condition.. will you then outrun stam, the way henry would outrun stam under thos circumstances? answer: no...

put overmars instead of henry and wörns instead of stam. same thing... or better, henry versus wörns... last time i saw those two play against each other in real life, wörns was still inhaling the dust kicked off by henry while the latter was already celebrating france's next goal...

we won't agree on that, gobby. for all the 100 times you did *not* experience any sort of CPU speed advantage i did...

let's just leave it there. no matter what the truth, it's still a great game...

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Han
I can agree with most of your post, except the last part.
Okay, there are complaints which are down to the lack of skills of the player, but that wasn't my attitude in this topic: I somewhere said that we should try to find ways to overcome these so-called cheats and as an example I told I found a way to get fewer fouls against you by a certain way of doing sliding-tackles.
I still think there must be hidden ways to overcome other "cpu-cheats", which is different than saying people have no skills; We don't know the skills, which is slightly different

fair enough

 

[Daftman]

I honestly belive the CPU does cheat in some ways,but i think it's a good thing,it makes me want to play just one more game where as on other footy games (f*fa) i would just win all the time against the cpu and the game was only fun in MP and it also makes me more determined to grind out results even when it seems like there's no point even trying (like when your players are in tip top condition but play like a bunch of fairies,and the ref won't give you the time of day if you gave him a rolex watch).

I know it can be very frustrating when it feels like the whole world and his dog is against you (and believe me i know,i'm a Leeds fan afterall!) ,but surely it's better than just winning 6-0 every time you play ,and it makes you wanna play again and again and again.

how many times have you fired up PES3 for a quick 5 minute match and ended playing it for 3-4 hours?,happens to me all the time and i think that's the sign of a truly great game.