Prefabricated results

[Duke777]

Originally posted by RaDiCal_FifA
The point is, having played all this time, I've noticed a few minor annoying bugs in the game, as well as this CPU conspiracy you've been talking about; but I still believe that if we were REALLY good none of this would bother us.

Exactly, but the difference between you and me is that I don't find it challenging just lame

Better AI is fine but allowing the computer to dribble around your players with players of a quality that wouldn't even make my bench in D2 is just... lame.

If only they just made it like that all the time it would be okay as well, give the computer +40 points on each stat on 6* ALL THE TIME. But now it just happens when you are running away with the match/league.

It's the same as the AI players diving when 1-0/2-0 down and getting a free kick EVERY SINGLE TIME in the last 30 minutes of a match.

It's fine by me if you want to close your eyes and ignore it, I am not saying PES sucks blabla, it's just not my cup of tea. I want to win because I'm better + have the better team not because I manage to overcome a huge unfair computer advantage. It's pointless.

So that's it for me on PES3... I'll wait for online play in PES4 (if it comes to PC). I just completely hate CPU ASSIST and I have always done so. You can't turn it off in PES3 (nor in NFS:U which therefore isn't worth playing anymore either).

Whether you believe me or not... do you really think I give a ****? It's there, I have played sports games since 1987 and I think I can recognize CPU Assist by now (esp. since I can program as well so I know how easy it is to implement such algorithms).

 

[Ominous]

lets wake up!

PREFABRICATED RESULT IS REAL

n PREFABRICATED RESULT is a very good way to put it!

every now n then, comes a game, where u MUST loose, n u sure WILL!

a sad (_._) team will play like a mixture of arsenal, juve, milan twins n kick the crap outa u!

the funny thing is.... if u restart the match n play that game again, ull loose again

i lost the game n then i remembered this post!

i use cheat prevention but i save my games in two places! so i loaded the other file n played again jus to see if i was playin real crap or the cpu team had jus been lucky or was there sm superhuman black magic involved!

5 times, same game, same useless team, same result

really funny.. if u think about the fact that id won 7 games in a row jus bfore that! (including against liverpool n arsenal n newcastle)

bfore the match starts, the computer decides that U R GONNA LOOSE THIS ONE, cuz ur gettin too close to the league leader or watever reason!

sm useless 3rd division player is gonna make nesta n stam look like me playin against pele!

the scorline might b a LITTLE different, but in the end, ur gonna loose

PREFABRICATED it sure is!!!

must add... besides these occasional fixed matches n a VERY irritating refree, the game is really fun to play!

very exhilarating if u win an evenly matched game (like most of the games against big teams). makes u feel like u fully deserved it!

 

[Keemo]

I agree that there is "CPU assist" but if you can't win a certain match no matter what then how do people say things like "I won every game this seaon in D1 on 5*"?

 

[culo]

guys, it's not a prefabricated result

i do know exactly what you are talking about when you talk out the cpu cheating and those games that no matter what, your guys play like crap and the AI team plays like gods

I remember one particular ML game where my team played so bad that I've restarted a match and replayed it a few times to see if it was possible to win it and every time, my guys are 20% slower than the cpu, cannot seem to play a simple 5 yard pass at all and the cpu guys just play on turbo mode for the entire match and the ref is 100% for the cpu team

but it is still possible to win these matches - you just have to work your butt off, use super cancel all the time, use tactics to attack and defend in numbers

there are matches when the cpu just decides your gonna have it real bad, but the actual result is not pre-fabricated, you can still win - but like duke777 said, it's not really much fun or very satisfying, just annoying cos you know your not playing on a level playing field

 

[ILFR]

Even Real Madrid or Man Utd play like sh** in real life once in a while..........so why not in a game?!

 

[Spurs4Life]

Originally posted by culo
guys, it's not a prefabricated result

i do know exactly what you are talking about when you talk out the cpu cheating and those games that no matter what, your guys play like crap and the AI team plays like gods

I remember one particular ML game where my team played so bad that I've restarted a match and replayed it a few times to see if it was possible to win it and every time, my guys are 20% slower than the cpu, cannot seem to play a simple 5 yard pass at all and the cpu guys just play on turbo mode for the entire match and the ref is 100% for the cpu team

but it is still possible to win these matches - you just have to work your butt off, use super cancel all the time, use tactics to attack and defend in numbers

there are matches when the cpu just decides your gonna have it real bad, but the actual result is not pre-fabricated, you can still win - but like duke777 said, it's not really much fun or very satisfying, just annoying cos you know your not playing on a level playing field

Like i said in a earlier thread,u are 20% slower because of the fatigue levels,the computer players dont get fatigue (another advantage to the computer AI),so i turned this option off,now i am at there speed and when i get the ball with henry or ronaldo its finally realistic where i can't be caught,i wouldnt leave fatigue option on guys, you are just creating a disadvantage for yourself doing that seeing as the computer doesnt get any kind of fatigue.

 

[Ominous]

Originally posted by ILFR
Even Real Madrid or Man Utd play like sh** in real life once in a while..........so why not in a game?!

by sm freak chance of nature, madrid lost to wolves

u spose the same result had happen if they met next 5 times?

do u REALLY get wat we been barking on about here in this thread?

 

[Ominous]

Originally posted by Spurs4Life
Like i said in a earlier thread,u are 20% slower because of the fatigue levels,the computer players dont get fatigue (another advantage to the computer AI),so i turned this option off,now i am at there speed and when i get the ball with henry or ronaldo its finally realistic where i can't be caught,i wouldnt leave fatigue option on guys, you are just creating a disadvantage for yourself doing that seeing as the computer doesnt get any kind of fatigue.

true! all the fatigue option r complete bull

specially ACCUMULATED fatigue!

never mind the fact that in every single game, cpu players r as fresh as energetic as an 18 yr old playin his first league game!

my players cant even play 5 games in a row!

one week of rest after every game n still tired?

screw that mate!

 

[Han]

What a nonsense! CPU is fit because they always substitute fatique players. You can do that too. I always sub 3 players at about the 75th minute, getting the players with the lowest fitness off, no matter how good they are. If I have to choose between a defender and an attacker, I sub the defender.

 

[Gobby]

I think we may have found the problem here, I always sub my fatigued players, and also if a player is too tired they won't start the match.
I am still yet to see any clear example of the cpu assist - my players are never 'unrealistically' outrun by any cpu player. Maybe another problem you are causing yourselves is over use of the sprint button, I learnt in the demo that you only use sprint when totally needed otherwise your players will be dead by the last 20 mins.
I think some of you should go and play the game subbing your tired players and hardly using sprint, then tell me the CPU is cheating.

 

[culo]

Originally posted by Gobby
I think we may have found the problem here, I always sub my fatigued players, and also if a player is too tired they won't start the match.
I am still yet to see any clear example of the cpu assist - my players are never 'unrealistically' outrun by any cpu player. Maybe another problem you are causing yourselves is over use of the sprint button, I learnt in the demo that you only use sprint when totally needed otherwise your players will be dead by the last 20 mins.
I think some of you should go and play the game subbing your tired players and hardly using sprint, then tell me the CPU is cheating.

i always sub my tired players and am very frugal in my use of the sprint button - and i am quite happy to tell you the cpu is "cheating" - it's more than just just sprinting, but things like acceleration over short distances which at times is just absurd, passing speed, response times

when the cpu is in turbo mode, all you have to do is look at a situation where your guy and a cpu guy fall over after a challenge, the cpu guy is up in an instant but your guy languishes for an extra 1 or 2 seconds

the cpu team will zip the ball around at lightning speed but your guys passes are like in slow motion and your guys move like snails (yes, they are fatigued but the cpu guys don't suffer the same effects) - i've seen cpu guys run faster than my guys pass the ball

what clinches it for me is that you can watch the cpu team zipping around like flies and your guys trudging around like they are in treacle, then switch teams so you are now controlling the other team and suddenly you find that the team that the team you are now controlling are no longer lightning quick but have instantly become stuck in the treacle and the team you had been controlling seem to find a massive surge if energy now that the cpu is controlling them

 

[Han]

Culo, tell me, what playing style do you have? Does it look like Arsenal or more like Manchester United? I mean, when you do the ball make the hard work by passing it very much you will not be that tired as with a fysical style like Arsenal, with a lot of running. I fully agree with Gobby about the use of the sprint button, it certainly tires your players, like any kind of running.
But sprinting costs even more fitness. Also doing (sliding)tackles costs fitness, so that's why I like to know what playing style you use.....

 

[Gobby]

Originally posted by culo
all you have to do is look at a situation where your guy and a cpu guy fall over after a challenge, the cpu guy is up in an instant but your guy languishes for an extra 1 or 2 seconds

Thats odd... 50% of the time my player gets up before the cpu player, I think my players are cheating

Passing speed is 100% dependant on the real-life variables such as pass ability, pass accuracy, which foot is used, the player's stance/balance at time of pass, fatigue. If you do insist this isn't the case, maybe show me a replay of a sequence of passes that are unrealistically slow, in which your players have high pass ability, are facing the direction of the pass, have no opponent challenging them, are using their strong foot, etc

Anyway I can't see you agreeing here, paranoia is the worst opponent.

 

[culo]

Originally posted by Gobby
Anyway I can't see you agreeing here, paranoia is the worst opponent.

yeah, i don't agree and you should see an optician about your eyesight problem

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Gobby
Thats odd... 50% of the time my player gets up before the cpu player, I think my players are cheating

Passing speed is 100% dependant on the real-life variables such as pass ability, pass accuracy, which foot is used, the player's stance/balance at time of pass, fatigue. If you do insist this isn't the case, maybe show me a replay of a sequence of passes that are unrealistically slow, in which your players have high pass ability, are facing the direction of the pass, have no opponent challenging them, are using their strong foot, etc

Anyway I can't see you agreeing here, paranoia is the worst opponent.

with all due respect, but even hardcore fans of the game (with the exception maybe of Han agree that the CPU has a couple of prescripted advantages in this game.

i call these "prescripted advantage", as i wouldn't say it's "cheating". it's necessary to program things that way to leave the AI a chance and keep the game balanced.

there are basically two options: either you design an AI that is completely "lifelike" -- near impossible -- or you "cheat" around it by throwing in several tricks. one trick is to make the refs more CPU biased. Another one is to give the defenders a default speed advantage (there is an easy way to test this: just play in training mode against your second team and see how they suddenly are much faster and swifter in passing and running compared to when *you* play with them). yet another could be to temporarily make the human players play crappy passes in order to give the CPU more ball possession, especially when it is down in the score.

all of these things evidently happen in this game (as they do in every game, as there is no AI out there which as of now doubles human behavior in all its shades and intricacies) and to say otherwise is imo just wrongly understood loyalty.

given that one can accept that, the AI is pretty damn good still... yes, it does drive one nuts sometimes, but i would say in sports gaming in general this is state of the art in AI programming. like every other discipline this one does slowly evolve over time. new technolgies and new research need time. give those guys 2 or 3 more years and they will figure out something which doesn't require tricks and will leave nothing left to complain about.

 

[leaf_20]

You definetly have to be more patient.

Do you change your formation to something more defensive when you are leading ?

if not, u should, if your players are in the right spot, most of the time you dont even need to slide, or if you do, it will be a proper slide.

and the person that commented, not being able to win with a crappy group of players: well thats a good thing I guess, usually crappy teams dont win. Shows the game is fairly realistic.

 

[leaf_20]

I think the post from Gobby is really good and explains a lot:

I think we may have found the problem here, I always sub my fatigued players, and also if a player is too tired they won't start the match.
I am still yet to see any clear example of the cpu assist - my players are never 'unrealistically' outrun by any cpu player. Maybe another problem you are causing yourselves is over use of the sprint button, I learnt in the demo that you only use sprint when totally needed otherwise your players will be dead by the last 20 mins.
I think some of you should go and play the game subbing your tired players and hardly using sprint, then tell me the CPU is cheating.

So I think people have to realize these factors.

To add I think you have to realize that yes the CPu does have an advantage but not the way you are thinking.

CPU passing is based on where your players are positioned, so most of the time they find that space, they get room and then look much faster.

You also have to realize that another team that is crappier can out speed your players. There are many CRAPPY players that are just really FAST, but the rest of their skills cant compare to a Nesta, etc.

The rest of the stuff Gobby mentions is also important and is totally overlooked by most.

Add also that yes even the top teams go down a level after having success for a long time.

Also add the fact that teams go down in performance when they take the lead.

Add also the fact that its different referees out there, some more strict then others.

also, add, that most of us are not the best managers, and dont concentrate on defending as much, especially when we have leads. (which is wrong)


With all of this, I find none of this surprising.

 

[Keemo]

I change formations for each situation. If the CPU has decided your going to draw or lose you still will. I had a game last night where I was playing a clearly weaker team (west ham) I dominated on offence with about 7 clear shots/headers on goal every single one hit the woodwork. 7 shots hitting the bar in 1 game is crap. I was playing 3-4-3 with counter attack for most of the first half as thier offence wasent even bothering me, still no score despite dominating the game. Second half same formation but switched to all attack still game ends in a draw.

 

[leaf_20]

You see that quiet often happens Keemo.

A better team is dominating but just cant get a goal.

You were totally unlucky to get 7 posts, but I dont believe it has anything to do with the computer wanting you to lose.
If that was the case you would have lost.

 

[Keemo]

CPU didnt want me to lose it just didnt want me to win hence the draw.