Middle East war

[Elber2k3]

The USA vetoed the draft resolution at the UN Security Council to call for an end of the Israeli attacks. What a surprise...

The result was 10 pros, 4 abstentions and 1 contra.

 

[Run DMB]

zionist 4eva!!!1111111111111 lol

 

[cus]

I suppose people should stop endless debates consisting of muslim-christianity-jewish ideas and focus on terrible outcomes..

there will be some serious war in that territory, sooner or later it will happen.

and it has some great potential to become WW3, which would lead to serious results such as determining WW4 weapons, which will be sticks and stones.... (original quote by: Albert Einstein)

 

[Virgo]

the sad reaction from ordinary lebanese people

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5176582.stm

 

[ShiftyPowers]

The USA vetoed the draft resolution at the UN Security Council to call for an end of the Israeli attacks. What a surprise...

The result was 10 pros, 4 abstentions and 1 contra.

The USA has vetoed everything even remotely anti-Isreal since the state was formed.

 

[Rob]

Dude I practically lived at the Soccer Forum for the past month. If anything it means u never posted there. Or maybe the Lounge is the only place u check at? (Football news belongs at the "soccer forum")
Besides, this maybe my 1st post in the Lounge for about 2 months or something...

LAWL.

 

[Krypton X]

It's like Israel's message is: For every soldier you attack, we'll kill 10 of your civilians.

Israel is always going on about how Arabs target civilians and terrorise the innocent, but it seems to me that when they do attack soldiers instead Israel's response is usually much more brutal than it is when they're hitting back after some suicide attack against civilians. Israel is obviously well entitled to defend itself and its people. But its clear that they're not as comfortable having the Palestinians and others attacking their armed forces, because terrorism gives them an alibi to take whatever course of action they feel they can get away with in Gaza and the West Bank, but with those militias attacking the army instead many of those who sympathise with Israel might begin to see it as legitimate resistance to the occupation.

Hezbollah is only a minority party with a hardcore military wing of 500 militants yet Israel is holding the whole of Lebanon responsible for Hezbollah's actions. We all know Hezbollah are means for Iran and Syria to indirectly target Israel so why hold Lebanon responsible?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5175160.stm

Israel's position is that Hezbollah are a major component of the Lebanese government and have their own share of seats in the parliament, and thus the whole of the government is held responsible for Hezbollah's actions. Despite the fact that Hezbollah took these actions unilaterally and without even consulting any of the other Lebanese factions.

They would obviously have the backing of the Syrians and Iranians in this, but i think these attacks were mostly motivated by Hezbollah's domestic standing in Lebanon, they've been under a great deal of pressure to disband their militia and give up their arms. But by taking advantage of Israel having its hands full in Gaza, Hezbollah is trying to open a second front in the north, and send a message to its political rivals in Lebanon that the common enemy is still around and that Hezbollah are the only ones who can fend them off and their militias and weapons are here to stay.

But summer time is usually the peak tourist season in Lebanon, and with Israel having forced Lebanon's major airports to close, the only way out of the country is through the major highways that lead to Syria, but Israel are threatening to bomb those as well, the justification being that Israel does not want it's 2 kidnapped soldiers to leave the country, not that this will hinder Hezbollah from smuggling them out of Lebanon if they wanted to. So now thousands of foreign tourists are effectively stranded with little chance of going home until this is all over.

 

[Rob]

They got a soldier and a hitch-hiker. Gee that totally negates my "propaganda" and puts me in a pickle.

If only that wasn't constantly happening to Palestenian families at their homes, schools and even on the beach. If only.

Palestenian Mass loss = Propaganda, boring.
Israeli isolated loss = Terrorism, news material.

Just to have the labels put from the start.

Sinical.

If you think its over a few soldiers, then you are more naive then I thought.

* April 17,2004 - A border policeman killed, an Israeli civilian injured, and two border policemen injured, when a suicide bomber exploded himself at the workers terminal crossing at the Erez industrial area.
* March 14, 2004 - Two suicide bombers detonated an explosive belt and an explosive bag at the Ashdod port. Ten Israelis were killed and 12 injured.
* March 6, 2004 - Suicide bombers traveling in three vehicles drove into the Erez crossing, and detonated two car bombs at Palestinian checkpoints, while firing at the Israeli checkpoint. Two Palestinian policemen were killed.
* Jan. 29, 2004 - A suicide bomber detonated a bag laden with explosives on a No. 19 bus line on Aza Street in Jerusalem. Ten Israelis and one foreigner were killed and 44 were injured.
* Jan. 14, 2004 - A female suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt detonated herself at the workers terminal in the Erez crossing, resulting in the death of four Israelis and the injury of five.


# Sept. 9, 2003 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device at the entrance of the "Hillel Caf?" in Jerusalem. Seven Israelis were killed and 70 injured.
# Sept. 9 , 2003 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device at a bus stop near the IDF "Tzrifin" Base. Nine IDF soldiers were killed and 10 were injured.
# Aug. 19, 2003 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt blew himself up on a No. 2 bus line in Jerusalem, resulting in the death of 23 Israelis and the injury of 115.
# Aug. 12, 2003 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt blew himself up near a bus stop at the entrance to Ariel. Two Israelis were killed and two others injured.
# June 11, 2003 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt blew himself up on the No. 14 bus line in Jerusalem. Seventeen Israelis were killed and 104 were injured.
# May 19, 2003 - A Hamas terrorist on a bicycle blew himself up next to a military jeep in Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip. Three IDF soldiers were wounded.
# May 18, 2003 - A suicide bomber, with a bag filled with explosives blew himself up near the A-Ram Junction in Jerusalem.
# May 18, 2003 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt, detonated himself on a bus at the French Hill Junction in Jerusalem. Seven Israelis were killed and 20 were wounded.
# May 17, 2003 - A suicide bomber dressed as a religious Jew, and wearing an explosive belt, blew himself up in Hebron?s Gross Square, killing two Israeli civilians.
# April 30, 2003 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive belt at the entrance to the "Mike's Place" pub on the Tel Aviv boardwalk. An additional suicide bomber hurled an explosive device nearby. Three Israeli civilians were killed and 62 were wounded.
# April 15, 2003 - Two Israeli civilians were killed and three were injured when a terrorist armed with a Kalashnikov assault rifles, grenades and an explosive belt penetrated the Karni crossing in the Gaza Strip fired and hurled grenades. The terrorist was shot and killed.
# March 5, 2003 - A suicide bomber blew himself up on the No. 37 bus line in Haifa. Seventeen Israeli civilians were killed, and 42 were wounded.
# Jan. 17, 2003 - A raft laden with explosives and guided by a suicide bomber, exploded after Israeli Navy ships fired at the craft, four kilometers from Dugit, in the northern Gaza Strip.

# Nov. 21, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive belt on the No. 20 bus line in Jerusalem. Eleven Israelis were killed, and 50 were wounded.
# Oct. 27, 2002 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt detonated himself, despite being shot, at the gas station near the entrance to the city of Ariel. Three Israeli civilians were killed, and 17 were wounded.
# Oct. 11, 2002 - A suicide bomber is arrested at the entrance to a caf? before he could detonate his explosive belt.
# Oct. 10, 2002 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt detonated himself near a bus stop at the Bar Ilan Bridge in Ramat Gan. An Israeli civilian was killed, and 20 were wounded.
# Sept. 19, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated a bag laden with explosives on the No. 4 bus line on Allenby Street in Tel Aviv, in which six Israelis were killed and 66 were injured.
# Aug. 4, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device strapped to his body on a bus traveling near Mt. Meron in northern Israel. Nine Israeli civilians were killed, and 48 wounded.
# June 18, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosives-laden bag on a bus traveling along Dov-Yosef Street in Jerusalem. Nineteen civilians were killed, and 50 wounded.
# May 7, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive belt and an additional explosive device in a bag, at a club in Rishon Letzion. Sixteen Israeli civilians were killed, and 51 were wounded.
# March 31, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated himself at the ?Matzah? restaurant in Haifa. Fifteen Israeli civilians were killed and 31 were wounded.
# March 27, 2002 - A suicide bomber blew himself up with an explosive belt in the Park Hotel in Netanya. Thirty Israeli civilians were killed and 144 were wounded.
# March 9, 2002 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device strapped to his body at the entrance of the ?Moment Caf?? in Jerusalem. Eleven Israeli civilians were killed and 58 were wounded.
# March 7, 2002 - A suicide bomber attempted to detonate an explosive device strapped to his back in the ?Kafit Caf?" in Jerusalem. Nobody was injured.
# Feb. 6, 2002 - A suicide bomber boarded a bus traveling between the city of Maale Adumim and Jerusalem, and attempted to detonate an explosive belt.

# Dec. 12, 2001 - Two suicide bombers detonate explosive devices next to Israeli vehicles in the area of Ganei Tal in the Gaza Strip, while an additional explosive device is detonated near another Israeli vehicle. Three Israeli civilians were injured.
# Dec. 2, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device concealed under a coat on a bus near Yad L?banim in Haifa. Fifteen civilians were killed and 35 wounded.
# Dec. 1, 2001 - Two suicide bombers detonated explosive devices concealed in bags on Ben Yehudah Street in Jerusalem. Immediately following, a car bomb exploded nearby. Eleven civilians were killed and 170 wounded.
# Nov. 26, 2001 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt detonated himself at the Erez checkpoint in the Gaza Strip. Two policemen were wounded.
# Nov. 8, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated himself in the area of Bakah Al Sharkiah, during an attempt to arrest him while on his way to enter Israel. Two IDF soldiers were wounded.
# Sept. 9, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device strapped to his body at the Nahariya train station. An Israeli civilian and two soldiers were killed and 46 were wounded.
# Sept. 4, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device strapped to his body on Nevi'im Street in Jerusalem. Thirteen Israeli civilians were wounded.
# Aug. 9, 2001 - A suicide bomber blew himself up at the Sbarro restaurant in Jerusalem. Fifteen Israelis were killed and 110 wounded.
# Aug. 8, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb next to the Bekaot checkpoint in the West Bank. An IDF soldier was injured.
# July 9, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb near an IDF vehicle in the area of Gush Katif in the Gaza Strip, resulting in the injury of an IDF soldier.
# June 22, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb near IDF forces in Alei Sinai in the Gaza Strip. Two IDF soldiers were killed, and another soldier was wounded.
# June 1, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated himself at the entrance to the ?Dolphinarium? club in Tel Aviv. Twenty-two Israeli civilians were killed, and 83 were wounded.
# May 29, 2001 - Two terrorists approached an IDF position at the ?Tofah? Junction in the Gaza Strip. One terrorist detonated an explosive device strapped to his body, and the other hurled grenades and opened fire. Two IDF soldiers were wounded.
# May 25, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated a container filled with 48 kg. of explosives and three gas balloons at the Netzarim Junction in the Gaza Strip.
# May 18, 2003 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device strapped to his body at the entrance to a mall in Netanya. Five Israeli civilians were killed, and 86 were wounded.
# April 29, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated a car bomb near a bus carrying children at the Dir Sharif Junction.
# April 22, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated himself near a bus stop in the city of Kfar Saba. An Israeli was killed and 45 were wounded.
# March 28, 2001 - A suicide bomber blew himself up near a gas station at the Neveh Yamin/Kfar Saba Junction. Two Israeli civilians were killed, and four were wounded.
# March 27, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated an explosive strapped to his body, near an Israeli bus at the French Hill Junction in Jerusalem. Twenty-one Israeli civilians were wounded.
# March 4, 2001 - A suicide bomber detonated a case laden with explosives on the main street of Netanya. Three Israelis were killed and 53 injured.
# March 1, 2001 - A suicide bomber blew himself up while in a taxi, near the Me Ami Junction. An Israeli civilian was killed, and 10 were wounded.
# Jan. 1, 2003 - A car bomb exploded in Netanya. Thirty-five Israeli civilians were wounded.
# Dec. 22, 2000 - A suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt detonated himself at the entrance to a restaurant in the Jordan Valley, resulting in the injury of three IDF soldiers.
# Dec. 15, 2000 - A suicide bomber attempted to detonate an explosive belt near Israeli security forces close to the Erez crossing. The suicide bomber also attempted to stab Israeli security personnel.
# Nov. 6, 2000 - A booby-trapped raft exploded close to an Israeli Navy ?Dabur,? near the Israel-Egypt border in Rafah. Hamas publicly claimed responsibility for the suicide attack.

List of attacks on Israel by Hamas from 2000 to 2004, that doesn't include all the attacks in the nineties, and the constant firing of rockets by militants in Lebanon and elsewhere.

Israel is surrounded by countries hell bent on destroying it and make it known, Israel is not the aggressor here. Not only that, Israels attacks are made under the banner of a state, and the state is the only body that has a right to use violence in our system of states, unlike bodies like Hamas and Hezbollah who acted under the banner of terrorism. This latest incident started because of the Hezbollah incursion into Israel against all of the resolutions of the United Nations, against all of the understandings now of international law.

And if you cast your mind back 60 odd years, this entire issue over Palestine occurred because Arab nations at the time invaded Israel days into its existence and Israel thought back and defend itself and took over designated land that was going to be given to a Palestine state.

Now any civilian deaths are unfortuante, but its a result of collateral damage, however its justifed. Deliberately killing civilians is not. You have such outrage over civilian deaths yet you ignore the FACT that Hamas and Hezbollah, not Israel have been deliberately killing civilians for years. Deliberately killing civilians is wrong, something I notice you seem to have no qualms about when terrorists do it. Civilian casualties not deliberately targeted as part of war is unfortunate but not wrong. Deliberately killing civilians is evil, That is what Hamas and Hezbollah do. Targeting infrastructure as part of a war is legitimate. The only person to blame for that terrorists children being killed is him. No one else.

-----

I look forward to your postings of the Quran in a few hours

 

[The_Knight]

And if you cast your mind back 60 odd years....

The Israeli Massacres 1947 - 1994 In Palestine

1.
Place Of Massacre: Al –khesas
Date: 19-12-1947
Massacre Event: Al khesas is a village in the district of Safad North of Palestine. The Haganah gang attacked the village. Ten villagers were killed.

2.
Place Of Massacre: Bab Al A moud
Date: 29-12-1947 30-12-1947
Massacre Event: Bab al Amoud is one of Jerusalem gates. The Argon gang attacked the place in 29-12-1947 using barrel of explosives, killing 14 civilians and 27 were wounded in the attack. In the second day the same gang attacked the same place using the same mean and killing eleven Arabs and two British.

3.
Place Of Massacre: Balad Al-Sheik
Date: 31-12-1947 1-1-1948
Massacre Event: Balad Al Sheik is a village located at the foot of Alkarmel mountain. The Haganah carried out the attack on the village. Eleven were killed & thirty-three were wounded in the attack. In the second day they attacked the village again using grenades & automatic rifles. Thirty villagers were killed or wounded in the attack, most of them were women & children.

4.
Place Of Massacre: Saraya Jaffa
Date: 4-1-1948
Massacre Event: Located in Jaffa .the Argon gang attacked the place. The Saraye was demolished. 30 arabs were killed and 98 wounded. The attackers used barrel of explosives.

5.
Place Of Massacre: Samieramies Hotel
Date: 5-1-1948
Massacre Event: The hotel is located in al Qatmoun locality in Jerusalem city. 18 Arabs were killed and 20 wounded. The attack carried out by the Haganah gang using explosives.

6.
Place Of Massacre: Sallah Aldien Street in Haifa
Date: 16-1-1948
Massacre Event: The place was a store near Al Moghrabi building, salah Al Dien Street, Haifa .the attackers were Zionist disguised in British uniform using a time bomb. The attack resulted in killing 31 Arabs most of them children & women and 31 were wounded.

7.
Place Of Massacre: Abbas Street
Date: 28-1-1948
Massacre Event: A barrel full of explosives was used in the attack. 20 were killed & 50 wounded.

8.
Place Of Massacre: Sassa’
Date: 14-2-1-1948
Massacre Event: A village in AJallil. Carried out by Hagana. 11 Arabs were killed in the attack.

9.
Place Of Massacre: Al Salam Building
Date: 20-2-1948
Massacre Event: Place : Jerusalem

Executed by : Shetron

Method:bomb

Result: 14 Arabs killed & 26 wounded

10
Place Of Massacre: Al – Husieniah
Date: 13-3-1948
Massacre Event:
One of Jallil Villages

Executed by: Haganah

Method: explosives

Results: 30 Arabs were killed

11
Place Of Massacre: Haifa Train
Date: 31-3-1-48
Massacre Event:
Place: Haifa train

Method: explosives

Results: 40 Arabs were killed

12
Place Of Massacre: Deir Yassien Village
Date: 9-4-1948
Massacre Event:
Place : Dier Yassien Village

Executed by: Balmakh, Haganah & Shtren

Weapons used: hand grenades & automatic rifles

Results: 250 people were killed

13


Place Of Massacre: Nasir Al- Dien Village
Date: 14-4-1948
Massacre Event:
The village located in the district of Tebariya

Executed by: Haganah gangs

Village inhabitants: 90. 50 of them were killed

Automatic guns were used in the attack.

14
Place Of Massacre: Al – Lajoon
Date: 13-4-1948
Massacre Event:
District of Jenin

Executed by: Haganah gang

Result: 13 Arabs were killed

15
Place Of Massacre: Al – Lied
Date: 11-7-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: Al Lied

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapon : automatic guns

Victims: 426 Arabs were killed 176 of them were killed in the mosque.

16
Place Of Massacre: Beth Daras
Date: 21-5-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: A village North East of Gaza

Executed by: gangs from Haganah, Shtern and Balmach

Weapons used: tanks,machine guns and grenades

Result : many Arabs were killed most of them were children & women

17
Place Of Massacre: Sherfat Village
Date: 7-2-1951
Massacre Event:
Place: South of Jerusalem

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons used: automatic guns & explosives

Results: ten people killed (2 elders, 3 women, and 5 children) and 8 wounded (women & children).

18
Place Of Massacre: Beith- Lehim
Date: 6-1-1952
Massacre Event:
Place: Beth-Lehem city

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons used: explosives

Results: 6 citizens killed & two children & two women

19
Place Of Massacre: Qabia Village
Date: 14-10-1953
Massacre Event:
Place: west of Ramallah

Executed by: 600 Israeli soldiers

Weapons: artillery bombardment, mines, explosives automatic weapons

Results: destroying the whole village & 67 civilians were killed.

20
Place Of Massacre: Nahaleen Village
Date: 28-3-1954
Massacre Event:
Place: West of Betlehem

Executed by: 300 Israeli soldiers

Weapons: hand grenades, mines and automatic guns

Results: 8 villagers & 3 Jordanian soldiers were killed and 14 wounded.

21
Place Of Massacre: Qulqiliah Village
Date: 10-10-1956
Massacre Event:
Place: Qulqiliah village

Executed by: 4 battalions forces, infentery, tanks & artillery and 10 war planes.

Results: 70 resistance men were killed from the village & other villages who came for rescue

22
Place Of Massacre: Kufer Qassim Village
Date: 29-10-1956
Massacre Event:
District of Nazareth

Executed by: border security forces

Weapons : automatic guns

Results: 43 villagers were killed ( 10 children, 9 women, 24 men) the village inhabitant before the massacre were 200

23
Place Of Massacre: Al –Sheja’iah
Date: 28-2-1955
Massacre Event:
Place: Gaza strip

Executed by: Israeli army

weapons used: automatic guns

Results: 39 Palestinians & Egyptians were killed

24
Place Of Massacre: Eyoon Qarah, Reshon Letsun
Date: 20-5-1990
Massacre Event:
Place: Reshon Letsun

Executed by: Ami Bober an Israeli extremist.

Weapons: M 16 rifle

Results: 7 workers killed & ten injured, in reaction to this brutal killing demonstrations & clashes flared up with the Israeli army which lasted for eight days & 12 civilians were killed & more than one thousand wounded.

25
Place Of Massacre: Hebron
Date: 25-2-1994
Massacre Event:
Place: Ibrahiem holy shrine

Executed by : Borach Goldshtien an extremist settler

Time: down prayer

Result: 29 worshipers in the mosque were killed & the killer was killed by the worshipers. In reaction to this incident protest were carried out which resulted in the death of 22 civilians and 350 wounded.

26
Place Of Massacre: Abu – Shosha Village
Date: 14-5-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: in district of Jerusalem

Executed by: Israeli army ( Jefa’ati Brigade)

Weapons: automatic guns & axes

Results: 50 people were killed

27
Place Of Massacre: Khan -Younis
Date: 3-11-1956
Massacre Event:
Place: Gaza strip

Executed by : Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: in the beginning 250 persons were killed and the next massacre 275 persons were killed in the same camp

28
Place Of Massacre: Al- aqsa Mosque
Date: 8-10-1990
Massacre Event:
Place: Jerusalem city inside Al Aqsa mosque vicinity

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: 21 martyred and 150 wounded

29
Place Of Massacre: Rafah City
Date: 12-11-1956
Massacre Event:
Place: Al- Ameririah school in Rafah, one of Gaza Strip.

Executed by : Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: hundreds were killed with no reason except those leaving their homes were shot at by the soldiers

30
Place Of Massacre: AL Dawaimah Village
Date: 27-10-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: District of Hebron

Executed by : Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: the village was completely destroyed, 200 were killed and the villagers fled away.

31
Place Of Massacre: AL-Tantora Village
Date: 23-5-1948
Massacre Event:
Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Result: The village was completely destroyed , 71 were Killed and the village fled away .

---------------------------------

The Israeli Massacres Between 1995-1999:

The Sohmor Second Massacre :
2/04/1996 (Lebanon):
The Israeli artillery targeted a civilian car carrying eight passengers, killing all of them .


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Mnsuriah Massacre:

On 13 April 1996, at about 1:30 P.M., an IDF helicopter fired rockets at a vehicle carrying thirteen civilians fleeing the village of al-Mansuri, killing two women and four young girls. The vehicle was a Volvo station wagon with a blue flooding light, a red crescent painted on the hood and the word “ambulance” written in Arabic. Reporters at the scene filmed the incident. The film footage shows, and testimony of UN soldiers who arrived immediately after the car was hit corroborate, that there were no weapons or any other type of military equipment in the car, only some food and clothes. Amnesty’s investigation revealed that none of the passengers were connected to Hizbullah.



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Nabatyaih Massacre:
18 April 1996, Eleven persons were killed and ten injured in an IDF air attack on a house in Nabatiyya al-Faqwah, some three kilometers north of Nabatiyya, in South Lebanon. Eight of those killed were from one family: a mother and her seven children, including a four-day-old baby. Around 6:30 a.m., IDF helicopters fired rockets at three buildings in the village, demolishing one totally and severely damaging the other two. Lebanese families were living in the buildings. The IDF Spokesperson claimed that the helicopters fired at the building in which the eleven were killed because Hizbullah was hiding there after firing the mortars. Investigations conducted by Amnesty and HRW did not confirm this contention The IDF's statement ignored the fact that the IDF fired at two other buildings during the same attack.



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Qana Massacre :
18 April 1996, The "ethnic cleansing" operations carried out by the Zionist terrorist army have encompassed not only Palestinian civilians, but Lebanese civilians in south Lebanon as well. In an attempt to break the power of the Lebanese Hizbollah organization, Zionist forces undertook a military operation against south Lebanon. This operation was likewise based upon the Zionist mentality, supportive as it is of blood-letting and terrorism and based upon the belief that "exercising pressure against Lebanese citizens . . . will lead in practical terms to comprehensive, overall pressure on account
of which the Hizbollah organization will be obliged to adhere to a ceasefire."59 Given this reasoning, the Zionist forces bombed the shelter which was providing refuge to approximately five hundred Lebanese, most of whom were children, elderly and women who had been forced out of their homes by Israeli raids on their villages, and who had been unable to get to Beirut. This bombing led to the deaths of 109 Lebanese civilians and seriously wounded 116 others. During the attack, Israeli forces used between 5 and 6 advanced bombs designed to explode above their target in order to cause the largest possible number of casualties. Moreover, international investigations confirmed that the Israeli forces had deliberately targeted the shelter.60 Ali, one of those wounded in the attack, says, "I fled in the morning with two friends and went for refuge to the emergency forces in Qana. I had my wife and my four children with me. They led us into a shelter where there were about fifty people. Then suddenly the sound of bombing rang out. A first shell, then a second fell near the
shelter, and as we were trying to get out, another shell hit the shelter directly. I don't know what happened to my wife and children."61 Fadi Jabir weeps as he talks about things he saw after the Israeli bombs fell on those who had left their homes to come to the base for the UN Fayjiya peace-keeping forces. He says, "I heard people shouting 'Allahu akbar!', and a woman fell down unconscious. I reached out to get an idea what had happened to her, and her brain fell into my hand."62 As for Sa'd Allah Balhas, who was wounded by a piece of shrapnel in the Zionist massacre, he says, "In one second I lost everything: my children, 14 of my grandchildren, and my wife. I don't want to live anymore. Tell the doctors to let me die."63
Back to top

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Trqumia Massacr:
March 10 1998 :Israeli Occupied West Bank, March 10--Israeli soldiers opened fire with automatic weapons on a van full of unarmed Palestinian workers, killing Adnan Abu Zneid, 34, and two other Palestinians. Two more laborers were wounded as the group returned from helping to construct a building near Tel Aviv. Eyewitnesses described the Israeli gunfire as "indiscriminate."
Israeli Army Maj. Uzi Dayan said that the soldiers acted "according to regulations" in opening fire on the van with automatic weapons at a checkpoint outside Hebron.
Ali Abu Zneid, 37, a cousin of the deceased, was in the van and fell uninjured under the others' bodies. He said that the Jewish soldiers, "shot to kill."
Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Mordechai described the killings as an "accident"



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Janta Massacre :
22/12/1998 (Lebanon):
Israeli warplanes waited for the children to come home from the field to embrace their mother when they carried out this savage attack. Mother and her 6 children.

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24 Of June 1999 Massacres
24/6/1999 (Lebanon)
Martyrs: 8
Injures: 84
Target: Under
Building in
Beirut

In an interview with the "kolhaer" magazine, five Israeli soldiers said that the artillery commander had said to his soldiers "We are skilled marksmen. Anyhow, there are millions of Arabs... It's their problem. Whether Arabs become one more or less is just the same...We have accomplished our duty.
The whole issue is not about more than a group of "Arabosheem" (a racist term hostile to Arabs used by the Israelis). We should have launched more shells to kill more Arabs.


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Western Bekaa villages Massacre:
29/12/1999 (Lebanon):
The Israeli warplanes dropped bombs on he children who were celebrating the “eid” festival, killing eight children and wounding 11 others.


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These are just some of the massacres committed against the Palestinians and Lebanese by the Zionists Jews. If the raids on southern Lebanon old and new were to be taken into account the true magnitude of Zionist crimes against humanity could start to emerge. If one were to go into the gruesome details of the atrocities committed in 1948 the -mopping up operations- the deliberate humiliation and massacres of Arabs and the desecration of the holy places of both Muslim and Christian as well as the looting of these holy places and personal property by the Israeli army and settlers; one might just start to appreciate what Zionism is all about.

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After 2000 the numbers get overwhelming. It includes Land erosion, Home demolisions, and Air-2-ground bombing. But hey this is all 'Past History', right?

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine51.html
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine52.html

Civilian casualties not deliberately targeted as part of war is unfortunate but not wrong.

Here's the latest example of 'Civilian casualties not deliberately targeted as part of war is unfortunate but not wrong' for you..... (it's the latest up to last week)....

Massacres in Gaza (June 2006)

The Gaza Beach attack took place at approximately 4:40PM on Friday, 9 June 2006. An Israeli naval boat stationed off the coast of Beit Lahya fired seven successive artillery shells at civilians on the beach in the Waha area, north of Beit Lahya. The shells landed on the beach, which had been crowded with men, women and children at the time. Seven civilians from the same family (father, mother and five children) were killed.

A further thirty-two civilians, including thirteen children, were injured. Two of the injured sustained serious wounds. On 13 June, another attack was carried out on a Gazan highway, killing eleven and injuring thirty. On June 20th, three Palestinian children were killed and 15 others wounded in a failed extrajudicial execution attempt carried out by Israel.

I mean Rob, I don't want this to turn into a tit-for-tat discussion. But saying Israel is not the aggressor is hand-down the silliest thing I'v ever read down here.

List of attacks on Israel by Hamas from 2000 to 2004, that doesn't include all the attacks in the nineties, and the constant firing of rockets by militants in Lebanon and elsewhere.

When you read into them, I found that in some attacks, Palestenians were the only ones killed! And in other attacks, no one was killed. You don't know what a massacre is before u've read Israel's history in Palestine.

Not only that, Israels attacks are made under the banner of a state, and the state is the only body that has a right to use violence in our system of states, unlike bodies like Hamas and Hezbollah who acted under the banner of terrorism.

Yes, under the banner of a state. Coz there's no such thing as state terrorism. When ur a state, hell you can do whatever you want. Until ur a state, you can't pretty much do anything, not even be a 'victim'. It's all about 'the state'. Yes the 'State' is the only body entitled to kill at will. Israel is a 'state', so when it kills, it's not 'State Terrorism', it's just a 'State' doing what 'States' do.

Sounds like good ol'sarcasm material for The Daily Show.

I mean, really? A banner, or label is ur entire parameter for judgement? If that is the case, then hell, Israel -a state- could line up all Palestinians, cut their throats, and still not be labelled as 'terrorists'. Coz they're a 'state'. Whereas Hamas and Hezbollah could only target military soldiers, and still be labelled terrorists, coz u've already had a label, or 'banner' for them.

Lacks a tremendous amount of insight, if you ask me. Civilians ARE being targeted deliberately by the Israeli state, for genocidal and superiority intimidation purposes. This has been proven over years of Israel's history. Long before the suidcide bombings ever began, and long after they have ceased. Using a banner, or label, to justify (=saying they are 'just'; rightly served) these attacks is no worse to me than anyone justifying Bin Laden to an American public.

Now any civilian deaths are unfortuante, but its a result of collateral damage, however its justifed. Deliberately killing civilians is not.

Another reason why Israel's attacks and massacres are legitamite I suppose?

 

[Rob]

The Israeli Massacres 1947 - 1994 In Palestine

1.
Place Of Massacre: Al –khesas
Date: 19-12-1947
Massacre Event: Al khesas is a village in the district of Safad North of Palestine. The Haganah gang attacked the village. Ten villagers were killed.

2.
Place Of Massacre: Bab Al A moud
Date: 29-12-1947 30-12-1947
Massacre Event: Bab al Amoud is one of Jerusalem gates. The Argon gang attacked the place in 29-12-1947 using barrel of explosives, killing 14 civilians and 27 were wounded in the attack. In the second day the same gang attacked the same place using the same mean and killing eleven Arabs and two British.

3.
Place Of Massacre: Balad Al-Sheik
Date: 31-12-1947 1-1-1948
Massacre Event: Balad Al Sheik is a village located at the foot of Alkarmel mountain. The Haganah carried out the attack on the village. Eleven were killed & thirty-three were wounded in the attack. In the second day they attacked the village again using grenades & automatic rifles. Thirty villagers were killed or wounded in the attack, most of them were women & children.

4.
Place Of Massacre: Saraya Jaffa
Date: 4-1-1948
Massacre Event: Located in Jaffa .the Argon gang attacked the place. The Saraye was demolished. 30 arabs were killed and 98 wounded. The attackers used barrel of explosives.

5.
Place Of Massacre: Samieramies Hotel
Date: 5-1-1948
Massacre Event: The hotel is located in al Qatmoun locality in Jerusalem city. 18 Arabs were killed and 20 wounded. The attack carried out by the Haganah gang using explosives.

6.
Place Of Massacre: Sallah Aldien Street in Haifa
Date: 16-1-1948
Massacre Event: The place was a store near Al Moghrabi building, salah Al Dien Street, Haifa .the attackers were Zionist disguised in British uniform using a time bomb. The attack resulted in killing 31 Arabs most of them children & women and 31 were wounded.

7.
Place Of Massacre: Abbas Street
Date: 28-1-1948
Massacre Event: A barrel full of explosives was used in the attack. 20 were killed & 50 wounded.

8.
Place Of Massacre: Sassa’
Date: 14-2-1-1948
Massacre Event: A village in AJallil. Carried out by Hagana. 11 Arabs were killed in the attack.

9.
Place Of Massacre: Al Salam Building
Date: 20-2-1948
Massacre Event: Place : Jerusalem

Executed by : Shetron

Method:bomb

Result: 14 Arabs killed & 26 wounded

10
Place Of Massacre: Al – Husieniah
Date: 13-3-1948
Massacre Event:
One of Jallil Villages

Executed by: Haganah

Method: explosives

Results: 30 Arabs were killed

11
Place Of Massacre: Haifa Train
Date: 31-3-1-48
Massacre Event:
Place: Haifa train

Method: explosives

Results: 40 Arabs were killed

12
Place Of Massacre: Deir Yassien Village
Date: 9-4-1948
Massacre Event:
Place : Dier Yassien Village

Executed by: Balmakh, Haganah & Shtren

Weapons used: hand grenades & automatic rifles

Results: 250 people were killed

13


Place Of Massacre: Nasir Al- Dien Village
Date: 14-4-1948
Massacre Event:
The village located in the district of Tebariya

Executed by: Haganah gangs

Village inhabitants: 90. 50 of them were killed

Automatic guns were used in the attack.

14
Place Of Massacre: Al – Lajoon
Date: 13-4-1948
Massacre Event:
District of Jenin

Executed by: Haganah gang

Result: 13 Arabs were killed

15
Place Of Massacre: Al – Lied
Date: 11-7-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: Al Lied

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapon : automatic guns

Victims: 426 Arabs were killed 176 of them were killed in the mosque.

16
Place Of Massacre: Beth Daras
Date: 21-5-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: A village North East of Gaza

Executed by: gangs from Haganah, Shtern and Balmach

Weapons used: tanks,machine guns and grenades

Result : many Arabs were killed most of them were children & women

17
Place Of Massacre: Sherfat Village
Date: 7-2-1951
Massacre Event:
Place: South of Jerusalem

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons used: automatic guns & explosives

Results: ten people killed (2 elders, 3 women, and 5 children) and 8 wounded (women & children).

18
Place Of Massacre: Beith- Lehim
Date: 6-1-1952
Massacre Event:
Place: Beth-Lehem city

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons used: explosives

Results: 6 citizens killed & two children & two women

19
Place Of Massacre: Qabia Village
Date: 14-10-1953
Massacre Event:
Place: west of Ramallah

Executed by: 600 Israeli soldiers

Weapons: artillery bombardment, mines, explosives automatic weapons

Results: destroying the whole village & 67 civilians were killed.

20
Place Of Massacre: Nahaleen Village
Date: 28-3-1954
Massacre Event:
Place: West of Betlehem

Executed by: 300 Israeli soldiers

Weapons: hand grenades, mines and automatic guns

Results: 8 villagers & 3 Jordanian soldiers were killed and 14 wounded.

21
Place Of Massacre: Qulqiliah Village
Date: 10-10-1956
Massacre Event:
Place: Qulqiliah village

Executed by: 4 battalions forces, infentery, tanks & artillery and 10 war planes.

Results: 70 resistance men were killed from the village & other villages who came for rescue

22
Place Of Massacre: Kufer Qassim Village
Date: 29-10-1956
Massacre Event:
District of Nazareth

Executed by: border security forces

Weapons : automatic guns

Results: 43 villagers were killed ( 10 children, 9 women, 24 men) the village inhabitant before the massacre were 200

23
Place Of Massacre: Al –Sheja’iah
Date: 28-2-1955
Massacre Event:
Place: Gaza strip

Executed by: Israeli army

weapons used: automatic guns

Results: 39 Palestinians & Egyptians were killed

24
Place Of Massacre: Eyoon Qarah, Reshon Letsun
Date: 20-5-1990
Massacre Event:
Place: Reshon Letsun

Executed by: Ami Bober an Israeli extremist.

Weapons: M 16 rifle

Results: 7 workers killed & ten injured, in reaction to this brutal killing demonstrations & clashes flared up with the Israeli army which lasted for eight days & 12 civilians were killed & more than one thousand wounded.

25
Place Of Massacre: Hebron
Date: 25-2-1994
Massacre Event:
Place: Ibrahiem holy shrine

Executed by : Borach Goldshtien an extremist settler

Time: down prayer

Result: 29 worshipers in the mosque were killed & the killer was killed by the worshipers. In reaction to this incident protest were carried out which resulted in the death of 22 civilians and 350 wounded.

26
Place Of Massacre: Abu – Shosha Village
Date: 14-5-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: in district of Jerusalem

Executed by: Israeli army ( Jefa’ati Brigade)

Weapons: automatic guns & axes

Results: 50 people were killed

27
Place Of Massacre: Khan -Younis
Date: 3-11-1956
Massacre Event:
Place: Gaza strip

Executed by : Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: in the beginning 250 persons were killed and the next massacre 275 persons were killed in the same camp

28
Place Of Massacre: Al- aqsa Mosque
Date: 8-10-1990
Massacre Event:
Place: Jerusalem city inside Al Aqsa mosque vicinity

Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: 21 martyred and 150 wounded

29
Place Of Massacre: Rafah City
Date: 12-11-1956
Massacre Event:
Place: Al- Ameririah school in Rafah, one of Gaza Strip.

Executed by : Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: hundreds were killed with no reason except those leaving their homes were shot at by the soldiers

30
Place Of Massacre: AL Dawaimah Village
Date: 27-10-1948
Massacre Event:
Place: District of Hebron

Executed by : Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Results: the village was completely destroyed, 200 were killed and the villagers fled away.

31
Place Of Massacre: AL-Tantora Village
Date: 23-5-1948
Massacre Event:
Executed by: Israeli army

Weapons: automatic guns

Result: The village was completely destroyed , 71 were Killed and the village fled away .

---------------------------------

The Israeli Massacres Between 1995-1999:

The Sohmor Second Massacre :
2/04/1996 (Lebanon):
The Israeli artillery targeted a civilian car carrying eight passengers, killing all of them .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mnsuriah Massacre:

On 13 April 1996, at about 1:30 P.M., an IDF helicopter fired rockets at a vehicle carrying thirteen civilians fleeing the village of al-Mansuri, killing two women and four young girls. The vehicle was a Volvo station wagon with a blue flooding light, a red crescent painted on the hood and the word “ambulance” written in Arabic. Reporters at the scene filmed the incident. The film footage shows, and testimony of UN soldiers who arrived immediately after the car was hit corroborate, that there were no weapons or any other type of military equipment in the car, only some food and clothes. Amnesty’s investigation revealed that none of the passengers were connected to Hizbullah.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nabatyaih Massacre:
18 April 1996, Eleven persons were killed and ten injured in an IDF air attack on a house in Nabatiyya al-Faqwah, some three kilometers north of Nabatiyya, in South Lebanon. Eight of those killed were from one family: a mother and her seven children, including a four-day-old baby. Around 6:30 a.m., IDF helicopters fired rockets at three buildings in the village, demolishing one totally and severely damaging the other two. Lebanese families were living in the buildings. The IDF Spokesperson claimed that the helicopters fired at the building in which the eleven were killed because Hizbullah was hiding there after firing the mortars. Investigations conducted by Amnesty and HRW did not confirm this contention The IDF's statement ignored the fact that the IDF fired at two other buildings during the same attack.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Qana Massacre :
18 April 1996, The "ethnic cleansing" operations carried out by the Zionist terrorist army have encompassed not only Palestinian civilians, but Lebanese civilians in south Lebanon as well. In an attempt to break the power of the Lebanese Hizbollah organization, Zionist forces undertook a military operation against south Lebanon. This operation was likewise based upon the Zionist mentality, supportive as it is of blood-letting and terrorism and based upon the belief that "exercising pressure against Lebanese citizens . . . will lead in practical terms to comprehensive, overall pressure on account
of which the Hizbollah organization will be obliged to adhere to a ceasefire."59 Given this reasoning, the Zionist forces bombed the shelter which was providing refuge to approximately five hundred Lebanese, most of whom were children, elderly and women who had been forced out of their homes by Israeli raids on their villages, and who had been unable to get to Beirut. This bombing led to the deaths of 109 Lebanese civilians and seriously wounded 116 others. During the attack, Israeli forces used between 5 and 6 advanced bombs designed to explode above their target in order to cause the largest possible number of casualties. Moreover, international investigations confirmed that the Israeli forces had deliberately targeted the shelter.60 Ali, one of those wounded in the attack, says, "I fled in the morning with two friends and went for refuge to the emergency forces in Qana. I had my wife and my four children with me. They led us into a shelter where there were about fifty people. Then suddenly the sound of bombing rang out. A first shell, then a second fell near the
shelter, and as we were trying to get out, another shell hit the shelter directly. I don't know what happened to my wife and children."61 Fadi Jabir weeps as he talks about things he saw after the Israeli bombs fell on those who had left their homes to come to the base for the UN Fayjiya peace-keeping forces. He says, "I heard people shouting 'Allahu akbar!', and a woman fell down unconscious. I reached out to get an idea what had happened to her, and her brain fell into my hand."62 As for Sa'd Allah Balhas, who was wounded by a piece of shrapnel in the Zionist massacre, he says, "In one second I lost everything: my children, 14 of my grandchildren, and my wife. I don't want to live anymore. Tell the doctors to let me die."63
Back to top

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trqumia Massacr:
March 10 1998 :Israeli Occupied West Bank, March 10--Israeli soldiers opened fire with automatic weapons on a van full of unarmed Palestinian workers, killing Adnan Abu Zneid, 34, and two other Palestinians. Two more laborers were wounded as the group returned from helping to construct a building near Tel Aviv. Eyewitnesses described the Israeli gunfire as "indiscriminate."
Israeli Army Maj. Uzi Dayan said that the soldiers acted "according to regulations" in opening fire on the van with automatic weapons at a checkpoint outside Hebron.
Ali Abu Zneid, 37, a cousin of the deceased, was in the van and fell uninjured under the others' bodies. He said that the Jewish soldiers, "shot to kill."
Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Mordechai described the killings as an "accident"



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Janta Massacre :
22/12/1998 (Lebanon):
Israeli warplanes waited for the children to come home from the field to embrace their mother when they carried out this savage attack. Mother and her 6 children.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24 Of June 1999 Massacres
24/6/1999 (Lebanon)
Martyrs: 8
Injures: 84
Target: Under
Building in
Beirut

In an interview with the "kolhaer" magazine, five Israeli soldiers said that the artillery commander had said to his soldiers "We are skilled marksmen. Anyhow, there are millions of Arabs... It's their problem. Whether Arabs become one more or less is just the same...We have accomplished our duty.
The whole issue is not about more than a group of "Arabosheem" (a racist term hostile to Arabs used by the Israelis). We should have launched more shells to kill more Arabs.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Western Bekaa villages Massacre:
29/12/1999 (Lebanon):
The Israeli warplanes dropped bombs on he children who were celebrating the “eid” festival, killing eight children and wounding 11 others.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are just some of the massacres committed against the Palestinians and Lebanese by the Zionists Jews. If the raids on southern Lebanon old and new were to be taken into account the true magnitude of Zionist crimes against humanity could start to emerge. If one were to go into the gruesome details of the atrocities committed in 1948 the -mopping up operations- the deliberate humiliation and massacres of Arabs and the desecration of the holy places of both Muslim and Christian as well as the looting of these holy places and personal property by the Israeli army and settlers; one might just start to appreciate what Zionism is all about.

I love how these all come from the Palestinian national information centre, a body now controlled by Hamas, real reputable, an international recognised terrorist group.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

After 2000 the numbers get overwhelming. It includes Land erosion, Home demolisions, and Air-2-ground bombing. But hey this is all 'Past History', right?

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine51.html
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine52.html

Just like when Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia all invaded Israel after a UN partition of the land? right? Past history, but no, Israel are aggressors.

Here's the latest example of 'Civilian casualties not deliberately targeted as part of war is unfortunate but not wrong' for you..... (it's the latest up to last week)....

Massacres in Gaza (June 2006)

The Gaza Beach attack took place at approximately 4:40PM on Friday, 9 June 2006. An Israeli naval boat stationed off the coast of Beit Lahya fired seven successive artillery shells at civilians on the beach in the Waha area, north of Beit Lahya. The shells landed on the beach, which had been crowded with men, women and children at the time. Seven civilians from the same family (father, mother and five children) were killed.

A further thirty-two civilians, including thirteen children, were injured. Two of the injured sustained serious wounds. On 13 June, another attack was carried out on a Gazan highway, killing eleven and injuring thirty. On June 20th, three Palestinian children were killed and 15 others wounded in a failed extrajudicial execution attempt carried out by Israel.

Umm, wrong ... That was a result of a land mine planted by Hamas that was detonated. Now evidence suggested at first it was Israeli shells that led to the deaths, however it has been since learnt that Hamas operatives had scoured the area and taken away pieces of shrapnel, and then used the deaths to end its ceasefire with Israel and resume hostilities.[/quote]

source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,29867,19465042-2703.html

I mean Rob, I don't want this to turn into a tit-for-tat discussion. But saying Israel is not the aggressor is hand-down the silliest thing I'v ever read down here.

Why is it silly? Because all of Israels neighbours have said they want to destroy a nation that is free and democratic?

When you read into them, I found that in some attacks, Palestenians were the only ones killed! And in other attacks, no one was killed. You don't know what a massacre is before u've read Israel's history in Palestine.

Still doesnt justify the attacks by the groups despite the result.

Yes, under the banner of a state. Coz there's no such thing as state terrorism. When ur a state, hell you can do whatever you want. Until ur a state, you can't pretty much do anything, not even be a 'victim'. It's all about 'the state'. Yes the 'State' is the only body entitled to kill at will. Israel is a 'state', so when it kills, it's not 'State Terrorism', it's just a 'State' doing what 'States' do.

Sounds like good ol'sarcasm material for The Daily Show.

I mean, Really?


Another reason why Israel's attacks and massacres are legitamite I suppose?

Israels attacks are legitmate, they have a right to defend themselves and secure the security of their citizens. That can be done by several means, such as peaceful negotiations but its tough when Israels neighbours are all hell bent on destroying Israel. Israel is a free nation and in this case its recourse to the use of violence to secure its citizens and its own existance is more than justifed.

I mean Rob, I don't want this to turn into a tit-for-tat discussion.

Fine, lets not do that. I accept you have an opinion and its valid, but I think its flawed and I disagree with it 100%, as you do with mine.

 

[Rob]

Necessary Steps for Israel
Confronting State Sponsors of Terror Is the Only Option

By Michael Oren
Friday, July 14, 2006; A21

JERUSALEM -- For the first time since the Yom Kippur War in 1973, Israel is facing hostilities on two fronts. The exceedingly volatile situation is liable to embroil other Middle Eastern states, culminating in a regional conflict similar to that of the 1967 Six-Day War.

Faced with such a prospect, Israel could yield to international appeals for restraint and allow tensions to subside. By doing so, however, it would accelerate a process in which Syrian- and Iranian-backed terrorist groups in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebanon can keep the country in a state of perpetual military mobilization, paralyzing it economically and deepening its diplomatic isolation. To deny the terrorists this victory, indeed to survive, Israel must take bold action to fundamentally alter the security situation on its northern and southern borders.

Paradoxically, Israel has been attacked from the two territories from which it unilaterally withdrew with the approval of much of the international community. Since the pullout of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon in May 2000, Hezbollah terrorists have periodically fired rockets at civilian targets in Israel and ambushed soldiers across the U.N.-recognized border. Since the withdrawal from Gaza last year, Hamas and other Palestinian groups have fired more than 1,000 rockets into Israeli territory and have repeatedly attempted to conduct terrorist raids across the border.

Israel refrained from large-scale military reprisals for this aggression, confident of having won international goodwill through its withdrawals and fearful of being dragged back into the Lebanese and Gazan morasses. But Israelis have learned that unprovoked violence against them raises little outcry in the world and that failure to react to isolated acts of terror invites unremitting terror. Today a united Hezbollah-Hamas axis has emerged, financed and trained by Syria and Iran, with the goal of destabilizing Israel and frustrating its efforts to disengage from the conflict. In spite of the perils that this front poses to Israel, and the ethical dilemmas that fighting it raises, Israel can transform the situation into one that promotes both domestic and regional stability.

In countering Hamas and Hezbollah, Israel has little choice but to strike at those who authorize the attacks: the heads of those organizations. Both Ismail Haniyeh in Gaza and Hasan Nasrallah in Lebanon appear indifferent to their own people's safety. For propaganda purposes, they order rocket crews to operate in densely populated areas so that Israeli retaliation will inflict the maximum number of civilian casualties. But these leaders remain extremely reluctant to pay for terror with their own lives, a fact that Israel discovered when its policy of targeted assassinations compelled Hamas to agree to a cease-fire.

By contrast, punishing the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples collectively, as Israel has been doing, only strengthens their support for terror while creating painful ethical problems for Israelis. And negotiating with the terrorists for their hostages' release merely encourages them to kidnap more Israelis. Ultimately, Israel has no alternative other than convincing these leaders that terror incurs a personal cost.

But even targeted assassinations are no substitute for deterring the state sponsors of terror. Israel cannot hope for quiet along its borders as long as Hamas leaders continue to direct terror with impunity from Damascus and as long as Hezbollah receives orders from Syria and Iran.

Efforts by the United States, the United Nations and the European Union to dissuade Iran and Syria from activating their terrorist agents have consistently proved ineffective. Therefore Israel has no realistic option but to convince these states that the price of promoting aggression is prohibitive. If Israeli soldiers and civilians are the targets of Iranian- and Syrian-backed terror, then the Iranian and Syrian militaries must become targets for Israel.

By eliminating the terrorist leaderships in Gaza and southern Lebanon and deterring Syria and Iran from prodding their proxies to war, Israel can restore a reasonable level of security to its citizens. Such measures will also be implicitly welcomed by Israel's Jordanian and Egyptian neighbors, who are similarly threatened by these same terrorist groups. Only by establishing a new and more stable status quo along Israel's borders can Prime Minister Ehud Olmert proceed with his plan of redrawing those borders permanently, either unilaterally or in cooperation with a nonviolent Palestinian partner.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/13/AR2006071301668_pf.html

 

[CapaJr]

Let me get one thing straight- nobody should defend terrorists like heozbollah or hamas in this thread, they dont care about religion, they only care about power play. they killed so many innocent MUSLİM 'brothers' if should call it, when they bombed this building in Turkey, İstanbul.

so why bombing a city and kill hundreds of people that are also muslim? its clear that they dont care about Islam or anything, they are TERRORİSTS
Israel has every right to defend itself. if israel gives up their guns the entire muslim terrorist groups will be after their ass.

 

[The_Knight]

I love how these all come from the Palestinian national information centre, a body now controlled by Hamas, real reputable, an international recognised terrorist group.

You'll love them more when u know they're from http://www.seek-info.com/ And on that thought, you want to read the numbers from Hamas? Moreover, need the UN coverage of Israeli Massacres as in Sabra and Shatilla?

Just like when Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia all invaded Israel after a UN partition of the land? right? Past history, but no, Israel are aggressors.

Let's say, the UN, in its first years, with its first members, mainly governing its decisions, on the wake of WWII, comes to America and says, let take 51% of its land, and establish a Jewish state for all the Jews there to live. And how do they do that, by pushing Americans out of their homes and lands with weekly (sometimes daily) massacres by Jewish gangs and unorganized troops. Burrying hundreds of Americans per week under their own soil. Now when American allies start to retalliate against this decision, they are called terroristic war-starters.

It's interesting how wars are made, and how history is written.

Umm, wrong ... That was a result of a land mine planted by Hamas that was detonated. Now evidence suggested at first it was Israeli shells that led to the deaths, however it has been since learnt that Hamas operatives had scoured the area and taken away pieces of shrapnel, and then used the deaths to end its ceasefire with Israel and resume hostilities.

source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,29867,19465042-2703.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1796691,00.html

The Gaurdian
But a former Pentagon offical sent by the New York-based Human Rights Watch to investigate the death of the family has concluded that there is little doubt they were killed by an Israeli shell. "All the evidence points to the fact that it couldn't have been a mine," said Marc Garlasco, a former Pentagon expert on battlefields who led the US military's battle damage assessment team in Kosovo and worked for its intelligence wing, the Defense Intelligence Agency.

"You have the crater size, the shrapnel, the types of injuries, their location on the bodies. That all points to a shell dropping from the sky not explosives under the sand."

But Rob, if you choose to buy the story by the totally 'unbiased' Abraham Rabinovich, then go ahead.

Israels attacks are legitmate, they have a right to defend themselves and secure the security of their citizens. That can be done by several means, such as peaceful negotiations but its tough when Israels neighbours are all hell bent on destroying Israel. Israel is a free nation and in this case its recourse to the use of violence to secure its citizens and its own existance is more than justifed.

Yes, Israel killed all those thousands of civilians at their home, because 'their neighbours are bent on destoying it'. Oh and of course self-defense what was I thinking.

Plz, go over all the Israeli Massacres, all its civilian targeting, and tell me this is self-defence. Tell me Sharon killed 800 civillian villagers in only 36 hours, at Sabra and Shatilla, then left the women, children, babies, and men's dead bodies to rot in daytime for all world reporters to record, tell me he did it in self-defense.

Fine, lets not do that. I accept you have an opinion and its valid, but I think its flawed and I disagree with it 100%, as you do with mine.

Right.

 

[cus]

Rob your "Israel are not the aggressors" claim is the biggest joke, ever.


I'll never defend terrorism, but if you say "Israel are only defending themselves" like you meant with your 3 km. long post, then you'd either be not in your right mind or biased the least I can say.

 

[Tesla]

Come think of it, the mere existence of Israel + the arrogance of the US government are direct triggers to the hatred and enmity shared by most of the World's Muslims towards them. As a result --> boycotting, violence, terrorism, suicide bombings, casualties from both sides, etc...

and I have this question in mind and would like to know your thoughts of it...
Why does the state of Israel exist?

 

[Jambo Den]

"Nuke 'em All" is probably the most sensible statement I've heard.

 

[cus]

Come think of it, the mere existence of Israel + the arrogance of the US government are direct triggers to the hatred and enmity shared by most of the World's Muslims towards them. As a result --> boycotting, violence, terrorism, suicide bombings, casualties from both sides, etc...

and I have this question in mind and would like to know your thoughts of it...
Why does the state of Israel exist?

meh, Israeli people have the right to live peacefully in their country.. but formation of their country is wrong at first place.. I mean, come on if you kill palestinians to claim your land just like Israel did in late 1940s, of course you'll get some fcuking response.. it's not that hard to understand for those in their right minds..

 

[Joe Star]

Nuke them all

Yup . Only then will there be peace in that area. No one wants to fight over a radioactive wasteland.

 

[King]

Come think of it, the mere existence of Israel + the arrogance of the US government are direct triggers to the hatred and enmity shared by most of the World's Muslims towards them. As a result --> boycotting, violence, terrorism, suicide bombings, casualties from both sides, etc...

and I have this question in mind and would like to know your thoughts of it...
Why does the state of Israel exist?

why don't u turn it other way?
Terrorism, Sucide bombing, violence, etc leads to this kinda wars!!!!! And ofcourse, in wars there are going to be civilian casualties...

 

[Bobby]

I know that if anyone attacks South Carolina, they'll make them slaves. Same might go for North Carolina.

I know I could use one.

So if you plan on attacking us you might as well forget it, because your ass will be minding the fields, in the summer. No water breaks. That's real.

By the way, Israel aren't the aggressors.