Billie Mays died, too apparently. Let's build him a shrine.
http://www.cantonrep.com/world/x188...illy-Mays-found-dead-at-home-say-Tampa-police
http://www.cantonrep.com/world/x188...illy-Mays-found-dead-at-home-say-Tampa-police
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Michael Carlos*son dead at 50
- Thread starter Bobby
- Start date
Dipanjan;2692392 said:
Source?
All that says is 'Apparently, blablabla'.
Zlatan;2692403 said:a) Granted.
b) I think atleast many people acknowledge that he did some terrible things in his personal life. BUT he was also one of the most influential musical artists ever and for that he deserves our respect.
c) Very hypocritical indeed, but again this doesn't mean we can show respect for the death. Atleast The Sun is sticking to it:
d) I suppose how his death personally effects you depends on how big a fan you were of Michael Carlos*son. For some(like myself BTW) he just made a few nice songs you can rock out to in a club. For many others around the world he was a huge inspiration to their lifes. I came across the Dam square here in Amsterdam the day he died and Michael Carlos*son fans had gathered there to share their grief. It was clear to me how much his death affected them on a very deep personal level. Many of them were about my age and were probably not even born yet when he had his biggest success. Again, that shows the kind of influence the guy had.
e) Do you have to be succesful in recent times to be remembered as a legend? The fact that Carlos*son had his biggest success 25 years ago and he hasn't made any good record since 1991, doesn't mean he isn't the legend that he is. He sold 750 million records(including the best selling album ever), than you must do something right. Music is timeless. I mean, The Beatles released their last studio album about 40 years ago and are still listened to by many across the world.
f) I agree with you on that. The death of Michael Carlos*son should be paid attention to but it's certainly not as important as human and democratic rights. Concerning that though it needs to be noted how Carlos*son always fought for equal human rights in his music and performances.
g) It's easy to raise 3 children and be happy if you're just Joe Random and you live in the suburbs. But it's not if you're a very mysterious person, like Carlos*son was, who is constantly chased by money hungry papperazzi and stuff. Michael Carlos*son is the perfect example of how (self-)destructive fame can be.
j) I recommend a pizza.
Pfff, I can't believe I bothered to write such a long reply. The holidays must be really getting to me.
b) I'm not disrespecting him. Just saying I don't care that much he died. Lets put things in perspective: I care 1000x about the death of Neda (know he she was?).
c) Same as b). I guess we agree on this one.
d) Watching someone my age get affected on a very deep personal level because Michael Carlos*son died does affect me. Out of all the things that could affect them on a very deep personal level.
e) No, it just means he's been irrelevant for the past 20 years...
f) Agreed.
g) Totally disagree with you. A lot of celebrities have children and are good at caring about them. They complain about a lot of stuff media-related (and righteously so), but not of 'being lonely'. This dude had a lot of pitty for himself. How about he get up his arse and cared about his children??
j) I went for sword-fish.
Zlatan
Fan Favourite
Alright well, the fact that people from all over The Netherlands(a country which Carlos*son only visited a handful of times) come to Amsterdam to mourn collectively about his death shows how big a person this guy was and how much he meant to many people's lives. You can't just step over his death and say we shouldn't care about him.
I also strongly disagree with you that Michael Carlos*son has been irrelevant for the past 20 years. His influence on today's (pop)music is immeasurable. Many artist acknowledge him as a big influence. It was him that took the music videoclips to a new level. He also broke boundaries for black artists after him, being the first black guy who's songs we're getting played and got success on MTV and stuff. Also look at the many references to Carlos*son and his music in such a wide variety of songs.
I suppose you're right about raising his children. But the guy was so f*cked up by the whole entertainment business. I think this shows what happens to you if you're in the business since you were 5 years old. Carlos*son never knew a life without fame and his life was a public matter since he was a young child. I think this is what made him go mad in recent years.
I also strongly disagree with you that Michael Carlos*son has been irrelevant for the past 20 years. His influence on today's (pop)music is immeasurable. Many artist acknowledge him as a big influence. It was him that took the music videoclips to a new level. He also broke boundaries for black artists after him, being the first black guy who's songs we're getting played and got success on MTV and stuff. Also look at the many references to Carlos*son and his music in such a wide variety of songs.
I suppose you're right about raising his children. But the guy was so f*cked up by the whole entertainment business. I think this shows what happens to you if you're in the business since you were 5 years old. Carlos*son never knew a life without fame and his life was a public matter since he was a young child. I think this is what made him go mad in recent years.
Áļéאָ
Fan Favourite
Zlatan;2692613 said:
lives
goal_machine84
Senior Squad
INFESTA;2692391 said:
I get that you don't feel the same about MJ's death because he is not your close friend and/or you simply don't care because his music didn't have the same effect on you as it did on others. I can respect that. Each to their own.
INFESTA;2692391 said:
Fair enough.
INFESTA;2692391 said:
I hate that everyone assumes he was peadophile just because he was accused of it.
If you are the biggest superstar of the world, busy with shows, music production, touring, media appearances, shagging Elvis's daughter, have a ****ed up childhood with a strict father, you will be pissed off at some money hungry douchebag parents encouraging their kid to make some money and get it sorted ASAP.
The emphasis is on ASAP. And that takes money as we know how long those trials can last, especially for celebrities and more for a megastar like MJ even if you have the best lawyers cos they will also want a piece. You just want to get it over with and move on with your life. Just like a kidney stone, you want it out of your life as soon as u find a doctor with anaesthesia and a knife. Simple.
But, once a kid wins some money, more ****s follow. Get the trend ?
INFESTA;2692391 said:
Yes it is hypocritical. Thats media for you. And they loooove deaths. Even a dog trapped in an elevator will be national news. The problem is that
- There are too many news channels and forms of media.
- They all are on ******* 24 hours. So they gotta have something to show you.
- So everything is news. And everything is sensationalism to the point that they will discuss how ants have developed a new form of kamasutra and we have to learn their techniques in order to survive the apocalyspe brought on by the fart of a skunk.
They will move on to the next story after it is milked to its last drop. Thats how they roll.
INFESTA;2692391 said:
Again, its not a question of talent/celebrity dying. Its about a person who had affected many people on different levels due to his/her music/performances dying. Its about knowing the effect of the person, not the person himself.
INFESTA;2692391 said:
Not me, I grew up on his music.
And even if you were born in 2000 and while growing up from age 5-14, if you listened/watched MJ as he was in the 80s, I am sure it will affect you on some level. It depends on the person.
And why does it matter he hasn't made 'relevant' music since 1991 ? Hendrix and Beatles haven't made anything for longer than MJ. Still they are legends and probably worshipped by a good number of people.
INFESTA;2692391 said:
You are probably getting pissed off at the oversaturated media coverage. Especially because MJ didn't have much effect on you. Fair enough.
Its the hypocritical media for you as you and I both pointed out already.
INFESTA;2692391 said:
He spent his life in the limelight since the age of 7.
Couple that with a strict father keen on getting the best out of his boys, constant bullying from his older siblings, constantly producing music and shows, dealing with the media, you will be hard pressed to have quiet and peaceful life on your own.
With THREE children and being the biggest superstar of the century, I am not surprised he isn't the Joe beer belly family guy quietly shagging the soccer mom in a countryside neighbourhood.
Phew ! alright, my fingers are going numb...**** i need to sleep !
goal_machine84;2692824 said:
Ok, here's my last argument concerning your last paragraph: did he have more attention (not only from media), responsibility and a busier schedule than, lets say, Barack Obama? Or Clinton? Or any American president? [This list could grow with other jobs from different areas]
He decided not to care enough for his children and feel sorry for himself instead! If you do what you're supposed to, one son is enough to keep you busy 24/7. All my friends with kids are ready to testify on this one.
What else? We pretty much agree on everything else except for the pedophile accusations. You're telling me the best lawyers money can buy didn't realize that more kids asking for money would show up if they decided to handle a cool 22M$ to a kid lying about Michael? Oh, come one...
I know you people love the guy, but lets not be naive about it. They gave him (and all others) heavy sums of money to shut them up. If you're innocent you go all the way through! (And btw, all the media were already focused on this case anyway, so why rush it?)
goal_machine84
Senior Squad
INFESTA;2692839 said:Ok, here's my last argument concerning your last paragraph: did he have more attention (not only from media), responsibility and a busier schedule than, lets say, Barack Obama? Or Clinton? Or any American president? [This list could grow with other jobs from different areas]
He decided not to care enough for his children and feel sorry for himself instead! If you do what you're supposed to, one son is enough to keep you busy 24/7. All my friends with kids are ready to testify on this one.
What else? We pretty much agree on everything else except for the pedophile accusations. You're telling me the best lawyers money can buy didn't realize that more kids asking for money would show up if they decided to handle a cool 22M$ to a kid lying about Michael? Oh, come one...
I know you people love the guy, but lets not be naive about it. They gave him (and all others) heavy sums of money to shut them up. If you're innocent you go all the way through! (And btw, all the media were already focused on this case anyway, so why rush it?)
MJ had more attention ( from media and the people ) than Obama can dream of.
Obama has more responsibilities than MJ, definitely.
But seriously, imo, Obama has quiet a long way to go before reaching the MJ fame threshold. Can't believe you are comparing a US President and MJ although I get the point you trying to make. But no, presidents didn't have the physical strains MJ experienced from childhood. Keep digging.
He didn't want his children to be surrounded by cameras 24/7 and that makes him a bad parent ? Come on, tell me exaclty how he not cared ? Baby Dangling ? Wtf has that supposed to do with 'not a good parent' ? It was blown waaaay out of proportions by our friendly hypocritical media.
I am saying the lawyers would have understood fo sho but Michael may have just wanted to get it over with ASAP and that called for a settlement. It doesn't automatically prove him guilty. Nor innocent you will argue but thats your opinion. I just think he was his own worse enemy at times.
Do you know what 'going all the way through' would have meant ? Really ******* long cases which m sorry but a star like MJ doesn't have time for. Look at the thing from the viewpoint of the biggest star of the world.
abyPREDATOR
Senior Squad
This photos were taken a few days before he died, when he was rehearsing for the show in London. He looks young and happy again when he is on the stage. I can't believe he died ...
goal_machine84;2692824 said:I get that you don't feel the same about MJ's death because he is not your close friend and/or you simply don't care because his music didn't have the same effect on you as it did on others. I can respect that. Each to their own.
Fair enough.
I hate that everyone assumes he was peadophile just because he was accused of it.
If you are the biggest superstar of the world, busy with shows, music production, touring, media appearances, shagging Elvis's daughter, have a ****ed up childhood with a strict father, you will be pissed off at some money hungry douchebag parents encouraging their kid to make some money and get it sorted ASAP.
The emphasis is on ASAP. And that takes money as we know how long those trials can last, especially for celebrities and more for a megastar like MJ even if you have the best lawyers cos they will also want a piece. You just want to get it over with and move on with your life. Just like a kidney stone, you want it out of your life as soon as u find a doctor with anaesthesia and a knife. Simple.
But, once a kid wins some money, more ****s follow. Get the trend ?
Yes it is hypocritical. Thats media for you. And they loooove deaths. Even a dog trapped in an elevator will be national news. The problem is that
- There are too many news channels and forms of media.
- They all are on ******* 24 hours. So they gotta have something to show you.
- So everything is news. And everything is sensationalism to the point that they will discuss how ants have developed a new form of kamasutra and we have to learn their techniques in order to survive the apocalyspe brought on by the fart of a skunk.
They will move on to the next story after it is milked to its last drop. Thats how they roll.
Again, its not a question of talent/celebrity dying. Its about a person who had affected many people on different levels due to his/her music/performances dying. Its about knowing the effect of the person, not the person himself.
Not me, I grew up on his music.
And even if you were born in 2000 and while growing up from age 5-14, if you listened/watched MJ as he was in the 80s, I am sure it will affect you on some level. It depends on the person.
And why does it matter he hasn't made 'relevant' music since 1991 ? Hendrix and Beatles haven't made anything for longer than MJ. Still they are legends and probably worshipped by a good number of people.
You are probably getting pissed off at the oversaturated media coverage. Especially because MJ didn't have much effect on you. Fair enough.
Its the hypocritical media for you as you and I both pointed out already.
He spent his life in the limelight since the age of 7.
Couple that with a strict father keen on getting the best out of his boys, constant bullying from his older siblings, constantly producing music and shows, dealing with the media, you will be hard pressed to have quiet and peaceful life on your own.
With THREE children and being the biggest superstar of the century, I am not surprised he isn't the Joe beer belly family guy quietly shagging the soccer mom in a countryside neighbourhood.
Phew ! alright, my fingers are going numb...**** i need to sleep !
OMg..what an awesome post coupled with awesome vocabulary.
Someone told me Chris Kattan died a while ago and I took it harder than this.
Pros: Good musician/dancer (before and around my birth)
Cons: Drugs, kiddy-fiddling, baby-dangling, physique, insane
Poor MJ, boo hoo. There are plenty of other icons who haven't had as much controversy as this guy, and even if it's all false, he DANGLED HIS SON OFF A BALCONY! Were he anyone else, I doubt he'd still have his kids. Oh, and stop loving on people just because they're dead. 95% of you were disgusted with him back when the pedo allegations popped up, and suddenly he's a saint?
RIP Michael Carlos*son. Btw, Fawcett died too, as have thousands of others, but it pales in comparison with the tragedy of losing Carlos*son's musical talent... oh wait. We lost nothing, most of you haven't thought of him in weeks.
Pros: Good musician/dancer (before and around my birth)
Cons: Drugs, kiddy-fiddling, baby-dangling, physique, insane
Poor MJ, boo hoo. There are plenty of other icons who haven't had as much controversy as this guy, and even if it's all false, he DANGLED HIS SON OFF A BALCONY! Were he anyone else, I doubt he'd still have his kids. Oh, and stop loving on people just because they're dead. 95% of you were disgusted with him back when the pedo allegations popped up, and suddenly he's a saint?
RIP Michael Carlos*son. Btw, Fawcett died too, as have thousands of others, but it pales in comparison with the tragedy of losing Carlos*son's musical talent... oh wait. We lost nothing, most of you haven't thought of him in weeks.
Zlatan
Fan Favourite
Ofcourse many people around the world died on the same day. And as much as they deserve our respect aswell, none of them sold 750 million records and had millions of fans all around the world. If you keep this in mind, is it that strange that people pay a little more attention to him than to any other person dying recently?
It's not strange at all, it's very normal. But giving something attention and giving it importance are seperate things. Carlos*son is beinbg venerated, worshipped, adored right now, when he was mocked and ridiculed a few years ago and forgotten last week.
It's frustrating to see that death is such an easy cure for all of the ills in his life. I justdon't think being a great musician many years ago is grounds for sainthood.
It's frustrating to see that death is such an easy cure for all of the ills in his life. I justdon't think being a great musician many years ago is grounds for sainthood.
itsbeenpickedup
Youth Team
As far as I can tell it's completely unfair to lable him a pedo. The last accusations he was found innocent on all counts, right? He may have done an out of court settlement in the past, but it's perfectly plausible that was due to stress, instability and foolishness. It was a bad move, but to be fair he was certainly not normal, and was naive and stupid in many ways. Once he did that, it's clear that other money grabbers would get involved, especially after that documentary he did. If he was fiddling kids, he wouldn't have admitted having sleepovers and stuff, would he? No, to me it's just stupidity, naivity and insanity, all of which he had in spades and people tried (successfully) to take advantage of. But not pedo.
He wasn't even gay, was he? I don't recall there being any news about that. It surely would have cropped up at some point, but he actually banged several women, had kids and got married twice. So why would he pedo on teenage boys, and not girls? The people accusing him had massive financial motives.
I'm no fanatic MJ supporter, I just think it's stupid and unfair that people would lable him a pedo with such apparent certainty, when there's clearly huge reasons for doubt. The last jury, with the facts fully presented to them, agreed he was innocent...
He wasn't even gay, was he? I don't recall there being any news about that. It surely would have cropped up at some point, but he actually banged several women, had kids and got married twice. So why would he pedo on teenage boys, and not girls? The people accusing him had massive financial motives.
I'm no fanatic MJ supporter, I just think it's stupid and unfair that people would lable him a pedo with such apparent certainty, when there's clearly huge reasons for doubt. The last jury, with the facts fully presented to them, agreed he was innocent...
-philias go beyond normal sexual stigmas and have to do with much deeper issues. MJ liked little boys because he never had a proper youth, it probably had a very low element of attraction. Anyway, whether he had sex with them or not, he had unsupervised sleepovers with teens as well as kids in his bed with him. I also read and heard evidence of him discussing it. Can't recall whether there was any explicit sexuality in it, but it doesn't matter, little boys in bed with strange men is a social case waiting to happen.
goal_machine84;2693281 said:MJ had more attention ( from media and the people ) than Obama can dream of.
Obama has more responsibilities than MJ, definitely.
But seriously, imo, Obama has quiet a long way to go before reaching the MJ fame threshold. Can't believe you are comparing a US President and MJ although I get the point you trying to make. But no, presidents didn't have the physical strains MJ experienced from childhood. Keep digging.
He didn't want his children to be surrounded by cameras 24/7 and that makes him a bad parent ? Come on, tell me exaclty how he not cared ? Baby Dangling ? Wtf has that supposed to do with 'not a good parent' ? It was blown waaaay out of proportions by our friendly hypocritical media.
I am saying the lawyers would have understood fo sho but Michael may have just wanted to get it over with ASAP and that called for a settlement. It doesn't automatically prove him guilty. Nor innocent you will argue but thats your opinion. I just think he was his own worse enemy at times.
Do you know what 'going all the way through' would have meant ? Really ******* long cases which m sorry but a star like MJ doesn't have time for. Look at the thing from the viewpoint of the biggest star of the world.
Ammmm, know what, we shouldn't be arguing. If you think that dude was a good parent then we clearly have different concepts of parenthood, and should leave it at that.