Messi's Record Appreciation Thread

Mandieta6

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I think he's saying that if Messi did that consistently, it would cast a bad light on La Liga. Do it once and you're a legend, do it a 100 times and something must be wrong with your opponents.
 

Alex

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ShiftyPowers;3358877 said:
I know it's a different sport, but Allen Iverson had that kind of quickness, acceleration, and shiftiness at 6'1''.

But 6'1" isn't that tall in basketball, and I don't think the skills would translate to a sport where controlling the ball with your foot is your primary skill. It's just physics - longer lever = more power, less acceleration
 

poet11

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What I wonder is... has there been a player so blessed while being so efficient and consistent ever before?
 

Alex

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Bobby;3359426 said:


Different sport, obviously. But if he grew up doing it, he'd be as talented.

I see nothing in that video showing the guy could be a skilful soccer player, apart from he is quite an athlete. There are plenty of good athletes in the professional football world, only one Messi.

Dribbling and ball control are much more about small, quick movements. This guy is fast and elusive, that's different.
 

ShiftyPowers

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I think coordination is translatable to any number of sports. Obviously AI couldn't drop a basketball and start controlling a soccer ball like Messi, but if he grew up playing soccer as much as he played Basketball and logged those 10,000+ hours he would have been just as technically sound and quick because he had that inherent skill. And while 6'1'' isn't that tall for basketball, it is for soccer.

I've heard that until about 18-21 world class athletes can switch sports and still excel.
 

ShiftyPowers

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The problem with American football guys who are that big is that they wouldn't bulk up that much for soccer, so it's impossible to judge them in that realm. Cam is basically a Lukaku type, or a defender like Oguchi Onyewu. But it's hard to see him on a wing or in the middle of a midfield.
 

yoyo913

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Mandieta6;3359521 said:
Messi should try and break the 1000 goal barrier. By my calculation, if he continues to score at least 80 goals a season, he could do it in just under 9 years. He wold be just 34, so if e buckles down he could do it. At that rate, he would break Pele's record of 1281 goals in just 12 and a half years. That might be beyond him, though.

Getting 1000 would make him a clearer GoaT. But I doubt he can do it. However he seems to be very professional and clever with finding ways to excel so who knows... Just hope he doesn't start getting injured a lot later in his career.

Even if he gets 500+, that would be a very impressive achievement. The top scorers who were mainly Spanish league players only got so many career goals: Raul 446, Hugo Sanchez 469, Di Stefano 513 (different era).
 

Alex

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ShiftyPowers;3359620 said:
I think coordination is translatable to any number of sports. Obviously AI couldn't drop a basketball and start controlling a soccer ball like Messi, but if he grew up playing soccer as much as he played Basketball and logged those 10,000+ hours he would have been just as technically sound and quick because he had that inherent skill. And while 6'1'' isn't that tall for basketball, it is for soccer.

I've heard that until about 18-21 world class athletes can switch sports and still excel.

As I said, I'm sure the guy would be good. Just not Messi.

Being a natural born athlete - including not just being fast and strong, but naturally dexterous and coordinated - is one thing. But it doesn't necessarily mean they would be AS successful at all sport.

Again, I'm sure these guys are fast, but they wouldn't be as fast with their feet as Messi. I'm not talking about running, I'm talking about the tiny movements it takes to fool a defender and control the ball. As someone else mentioned, the fastest man in the world isn't even that fast off the mark. It's the same sort of deal here.

You say 6'1" isn't tall for basketball, but is for soccer, the point is the guy has excelled at basketball.
 

Alex

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yoyo913;3359685 said:
Getting 1000 would make him a clearer GoaT. But I doubt he can do it. However he seems to be very professional and clever with finding ways to excel so who knows... Just hope he doesn't start getting injured a lot later in his career.

Even if he gets 500+, that would be a very impressive achievement. The top scorers who were mainly Spanish league players only got so many career goals: Raul 446, Hugo Sanchez 469, Di Stefano 513 (different era).

Especially as he has spent his entire career in Europe's professional leagues, not weaker leagues. He also didn't debut nearly as young as he would have if he stayed in Argentina (nor did he play against particularly weak opposition as a youngster).

I think when he retires, he will almost definitely join the Maradona/Pele argument, and one you get to that level it'll only ever be an argument.
 

yoyo913

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Alex;3359692 said:
Especially as he has spent his entire career in Europe's professional leagues, not weaker leagues. He also didn't debut nearly as young as he would have if he stayed in Argentina (nor did he play against particularly weak opposition as a youngster).

I think when he retires, he will almost definitely join the Maradona/Pele argument, and one you get to that level it'll only ever be an argument.


I think it's possible for him to achieve things which make him a distinct #1.


God, so much cock gobbling from me.
 

ShiftyPowers

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Alex;3359688 said:
Again, I'm sure these guys are fast, but they wouldn't be as fast with their feet as Messi. I'm not talking about running, I'm talking about the tiny movements it takes to fool a defender and control the ball. As someone else mentioned, the fastest man in the world isn't even that fast off the mark. It's the same sort of deal here.

I'm quite aware of this. That's why I said Allen Iverson and not Carl Lewis. NBA Point Guards require this kind of athleticism. Dwyane Wade's best attribute is his "first step". AI was the king of quickness and body shifting, not just speed. It's also why I'm not discussing american football players, because I don't think that game requires much technique and coordination. But if you've ever played basketball, you do notice how much being a footballer helps you; the games are very similar.
 

Alex

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ShiftyPowers;3360343 said:
I'm quite aware of this. That's why I said Allen Iverson and not Carl Lewis. NBA Point Guards require this kind of athleticism. Dwyane Wade's best attribute is his "first step". AI was the king of quickness and body shifting, not just speed. It's also why I'm not discussing american football players, because I don't think that game requires much technique and coordination. But if you've ever played basketball, you do notice how much being a footballer helps you; the games are very similar.

I still disagree. I think NBA players have loads of attributes Messi doesn't and vice versa.

You watch NBA and the fast movements are generally with their arms and hands for a start. Movements with the legs are fast, but are more about powerful laps, changes in direction etc. We're talking minute skills with Messi. Short legs simply help for that. Things like a Ronaldinho flip flap are very different than anything transferable from a basketballer.

Iverson's skills are often related to his agility, or when it's his dribbling, he is getting down low and using two hands, which is very different than using your feet that you're also running on.
 


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