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Is death an acceptable risk for being a GK?

pede54

Team Captain
I've been reading today, a lot of media reports in the aftermath of the Reading "game". What has been interesting is to see who believes that protection for GK's needs to be adressed, and who doesnt think any more protection is needed.

You get old farts like Bob Wilson and some long forgotton Sunderland keeper from yesteryear, proclaiming that " its a mans game" or "It was much more physical when I used to play", and adding that getting brain damage for a GK, is just "part of the game", or "Thats a risk of the job of a GK". Idiot.

Now I understand Wilsons problem. He is a gooner, an ex footballer with a chip on his shoulder, and he is probably the most biased "pundit" that any TV Channel or newspaper could turn to. He despises Chelsea and I think the sad man has really sunk to a new depth in using the Petr Cech / Carlo Cudicini injuries as an opportunity to slate Chelsea. The guy is SCUM.

Protection for GK's ( or maybe just for Lehmann?) demanded by Wilson, prior to the Readin game.....
http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,1766_1546497,00.html

No more protection for GK's demanded by Wilson after the Reading game...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2006/10/17/sfnbob17.xml

In opposition to Wilson's and other "retired" GK's opinions, you have todays players and managers with their opinions.

Arsene Wenger and Jens Lehmann of Arsenal believe sonething has to be done soon, before a GK ends up spending his life in a wheelchair, brain damaged for life.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/tm_he...objectid=17943017&siteid=94762-name_page.html

or, the opinions of Martin O'Niell on the subject....( further down in the text)

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premiership/article1879347.ece

Now I. like you have my opinions about the Hunt/Cech challenge, but thats all they are, opinions. They mean NOTHING. Only Hunt knows what his intent might have been, and he is claiming innocence, so this is not about handing out blame or villifying anyone.

We have had FOUR Premiership GK's seriously injured so far this season, with only EIGHT games played. Gordon Taylor (another idiot), of the PFA, says maybe its about time for protective headgear for GK's. He talks to Bob Wilson a lot so there goes Taylors credibility for starters.

I suppose in some ways, GK's DO have too much protection, but it is in situations that do not endanger the health or the life of GK's.

For instance, when a corner comes in, attacking players should be able to attack the ball and challenge ANY oppossing player for the ball, including the GK. As it stands at the moment, if just one of those attackers even brushes up against the GK, the ref blows for an infringement on the GK.

Now that is protection that the GK does not need to ensure his well being. That to me has nothing to do with protecting the GK at all. That was something that was introduced to take out some of the physical contact from a game of football and not specifically brought in to protect the GK.

Of course there will still be fouls on the GK in these situations. The Sonko/Cudicini incident is an example where an attackers irresponsible challenge causes injury to the GK and that kind of challenge is not only clumsy but irresponsible too. Those are the type of challenges on GK's that need to be dealt with, and not some hustling within the penalty box.

I think, to a player it is patently obvious at ALL TIMES when a ball is there to be won and when its a lost cause. At the moment, although it might be clear to a player that a GK has, or will, have the ball in his hands before a challenge can be made, the player will still go for it, and damaging the keeper is the furthest consideration on his mind.

I've played a lot football, I know about adrenalin and heat of the moment incidents too, but I always knew if chasing down a GK was a lost cause or not. Plenty of times I was tempted to stick my boot in between his neck and the ball and attempt to prise it from his grasp, hoping that he didn't have a firm enough grip on the ball.

Plenty of times I decided that I would not do that. I could kick him in the throat and kill him quite easily, so that challenge was not even worth thinking about. This rationalising all took place in the micro seconds before I could have hit the keeper, I still would find time to pull out if it endangerd the GK's life.

Its all about self control. Proffesional players should maintain self control at all times and not turn into psychopaths on a football field. Once again I'n not talking about the usual bump and grind of a game. I'm talking about situations where the health or life of a fellow player is to be put at risk.

I am not accusing Stephen Hunt of anything other than losing that self control. Watch the video and you will have to admit that there was NO CHANCE that Hunt would get that ball before Cech had it in his hands. Hunt would have realised with time to spare, that he had time to pull away from the challenge completely. He chose not to and that, was a deliberate action on his part.

Now Hunt is no angel, that we know, but there are many players like him who are either uninterested in the consequences of such a challenge, or who think too slowly to be able to make a decision in the time given.

I played lower league football when I played, and it was a hard hard game. Players who would go in on a GK and "damn the consequences" were in a minority. A huge majority of players I played with and against knew the limits and would consider the for/against argument before getting stuck in to a GK.

Its time that a rule was in place that, once a ball is in the GK's hands, that ball is out of play and a GK is not to be considered fair game just because a forward might think that the GK "might possibly" drop it.

We have seen FOUR goalkeepers hospitalised so far this season for very similar challenges on them. The idiotic reasoning was that "the ball was there to be won". It wasn't there to be won at all. The ball was already lost but that will not stop some players until there is a rule forbidding such challenges.

Scrap or update the the other silly legislation that affords GK's the protection that they do not need, that is in place at this moment in time, and bring in some safeguards that will ensure and GUARANTEE the lasting physical health or indeed the life of a goalkeeper.

Its not about softening up the game but to make players in this country behave as most players abroad already do, with regards to respecting where the line is drawn when considering challenging a goalkeeper.
 

jatin

Reserve Team
Err...nice points der Pede...so by protection..are we talking about more headgear, paddings etc? or changes in rules of the game(you have mentioned them..but seriously..no time to read ur long post precisely..)

Also..a little error in the thread title..should be "acceptable" instead of "exceptable"

Hope Cech is out and kicking soon!
 

pede54

Team Captain
jatin said:
Err...nice points der Pede...so by protection..are we talking about more headgear, paddings etc? or changes in rules of the game(you have mentioned them..but seriously..no time to read ur long post precisely..)

Also..a little error in the thread title..should be "acceptable" instead of "exceptable"

Hope Cech is out and kicking soon!


Hi Jatin. Not protective clothing at all mate. No thanks. All that is needed is a firm and fast acceptability by players, that there is a line that is not to be crossed. That would be easier than padding them out like some NFL flunkie.

Thanks for the spelling lesson too mate. (Y)
 

ShearerM4

Fan Favourite
Ever so slightly an over reaction. How many goalkeepers have died on the job in the last 100 years?

There's a big difference between protection and over protection. I take pride to see that at least in the EPL players are allowed to challenge the keeper in the air for a ball and aren't penalised for laying a finger on the keeper. Hunt's challenge was a complete freak accident. Had it not been he would have been sanctioned already.

This will just blow away, and you can't help but feel that it has reached such levels of outrage not because of how serious the injury but because of the club involved and the justice seeking victim of a manager.
 

MikeyM

Big Daddy
I suggest that any tackle made on a keeper with full control of the ball be deemed a professional foul and punished by a card (red if dangerous)

Many many times I have seen keepers' struck after getting two hands on the ball - my mind is drawn back to Martyn Keown nearly decapitating Raimond Van Der Gouw on the goal line with his knee at Highbury several years ago.

The problem is, with the Keeper being so involved (and of course he has to be) then contact is inevitable - I remember seeing videos of a 50's United GK breaking his jaw (and playing on too)

Maybe some kind of head protection might be in order (like those hard caps worn in baseball, or the rubber foam headgear in rugby) I agree that we don't want GoalKeepers resembling NFL players or NHL Goaltenders (though I'm sure the merchandising people would love keepers to have customised facemasks!)

I have seen the Cech incident, and I want to believe it was unintentional - certainly I feel it happened lightning fast so a pull out was impossible so some degree of contact was going to be made. I also would prefer to believe that no player would deliberately aim to injure an opponent (Though Michael Brown and Roy Keane spring to mind) And I am pulling for Cech to be up and about again soon.

Cudicini's accident was just that IMO, the striker was in midair and (unless he's Michael Jordan) no-one can turn in middair! The impact was sickening, but thankfully Cudicini looks okay now. You see goalkeepers being clattered like this all the time.

I agree there needs to be some way to prevent serious injuries - or even deaths, in our great sport. But how do you balance this with changing the essence of the game? Certainly Keepers being challenged/pressured is a core element.



Mike
 

pede54

Team Captain
ShearerM4 said:
Ever so slightly an over reaction. How many goalkeepers have died on the job in the last 100 years?

Two that I know of and thats 2 too many.

There's a big difference between protection and over protection. I take pride to see that at least in the EPL players are allowed to challenge the keeper in the air for a ball and aren't penalised for laying a finger on the keeper. Hunt's challenge was a complete freak accident. Had it not been he would have been sanctioned already.

I already stated that in some ways GK's are overprotected too much already, but for the wrong reasons and where it is not neccersary. Its in areas where GK's lives are at risk where there is NO protection at all.

As for Hunt NOT being sanctioned up to now. The reason is because it has yet to be reviewed by the video board and the FA. It was not a freak accident at all. It was a challenge that needn't have occured in the first place.

This will just blow away, and you can't help but feel that it has reached such levels of outrage not because of how serious the injury but because of the club involved and the justice seeking victim of a manager.

This won't just "blow away" for Cech thoug will it? The reason for the level of outrage IS simply because it has highlighted a potential risk of death or serious injury to a GK that up to now has been ignored. We have rules introduced for elbows. We have rules introduced all the time. These rules are not there to make the game "soft", they are there to make the game safe.

You should maybe check that your personal problems with Chelsea and Maurinho do not cloud your opinions on a serious matter that reaches further than just one particular club or manager.
 

dubcrazy

Senior Squad
keepers are over pertected..thats what i think anyway,,u should be able to give a goal a kick and not have a fuss over it,,,they are not made of crystal
 

Daz

Everyone's Favourite Diabetic
To be honest i always thought Keepers were protected too much, i see your point though. But when it comes to corners, any indication AT ALL that there has been contact on the keeper, most refs will award them a free kick and the benefit of the doubt. Whereas keepers like Seaman and Schmeichel were even more physical than anyone else; they were going to get that ball no matter who they hit along the way.

I personally don't think anything should change, keepers have that respect already. Chelsea were just incredibly unlucky that two incidences happened in the same game.

As for Hunt, i don't think it was a "freak accident" and maybe he could have done more to avoid Cech but there was no intent and no need to sanction him imo. A sincere (i assume it would be sincere) apology to Cech and an effort to help him in any way he can would show to me that Hunt is sorry.

pede54 said:
Two that I know of and thats 2 too many.
That doesn't really say anything at all, you can die from doing Ballet, or walking the dog. There probably aren't that many occupations around in which people HAVEN'T died in.
 

Lean

Fan Favourite
Goalies shouldnt have so much protection when it comes for balls in the air. When it comes to 50-50s on the ground, it's another story. It's too easy for an attacker to stick his foot anywhere he pleases, get away without suffering any injury himself and damaging a GK in the process. It's all a matter of interpretation, but in my humble humble opinion, if you injury a goalkeeper with yer feet whilst he's holding the ball on the ground, it's at least a yellow card. Depending on the offense, a straight red.

I've watched the replay of Hunt's challenge a few times and i dont think it was a fatality. He could've/should've avoided it, but he left his leg there instead.
 

Seán D

fm prodigy
It was a bit unlucky. Keep it as is, but if a player goes in intentionally on a keeper trying to cause injury it should have a straight lifetime ban.
 

pede54

Team Captain
dubcrazy said:
keepers are over pertected..thats what i think anyway,,u should be able to give a goal a kick and not have a fuss over it,,,they are not made of crystal


Just incase you missed it earlier mate,

"I already stated that in some ways GK's are overprotected too much already, but for the wrong reasons and where it is not neccersary. Its in areas where GK's lives are at risk where there is NO protection at all."

Dazmania, If someone dies walking the dog, then that has to be just very bad luck mate. If someone dies on a football pitch because another player DECIDES to kick him in the head, then that is an avoidable occurance. Getting killed on a football pitch IS NOT something that should be expected to happen sometimes to players. That is ridiculous.

Lean.....Pretty much got it right i think mate.

Sean. See thats where you allow room for interpretation. Was it intentional.....or was it NOT intentional? It would be more simple surely to have a rule or an across the board understanding, that says a player DOES NOT go into a GK once he has his hands on the ball. If a player then says, "sorry I couldn't stop in time", then he is still at fault for not pulling out before he made that late critical decision. Players would get used to it. They are used to it already on Continental Europe so why not here?

Horatiu.....get a life you sad prick.
 

Stotty

Fan Favourite
i just dont understand why anyone would lead with their knee, a very fragile area when knocked in the wrong place/direction, along with the fact his ankle seems to buckle slightly before he goes to ground, makes me think it wasn't intentional.
 

Daz

Everyone's Favourite Diabetic
pede54 said:
If someone dies on a football pitch because another player DECIDES to kick him in the head, then that is an avoidable occurance. Getting killed on a football pitch IS NOT something that should be expected to happen sometimes to players. That is ridiculous..

DECIDE? It wasn't intentional. No way. And KICK? It was his knee, and as Nick says, its illogicla.
 

Kulixs

Starting XI
I think people are overreacting massively. Its very rare something like this happens, and goalkeepers have no room to complain. Fire fighters and police officers get in a year what they get in a week to really risk their lives, and do it without complaints.
 


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