CopeCOwBoy
Reserve Team
well mvp baseball 2004 looks great aswell.
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Comparing Graphics FIFA 2005 and PES4
- Thread starter Mel Brennan
- Start date
Spurs4Life
Starting XI
Once again, their isn't that many players in a Baseball game, the pitch is smaller too, therefore there are more polygons available to the programmers to make the graphics as good as they can be.
common-sense
Club Supporter
espn makes the best graphics for all sports games...(football, basketball, and hockey)
I still think Fifa has better graphics than PES. They game looks clearer in fifa.
I still think Fifa has better graphics than PES. They game looks clearer in fifa.
Verbatable
Club Supporter
There really isn't any point arguing this anyway.
In terms of gameplay, all "gameplay" is, is how much you get out of the game. How much you enjoy it, when you sit down, how much control you percieve you have, and how much of it that you want.
As for graphics, everyone has preferences. Some people like the photorealism of fifa (Since the majority of the faces are simply pictures taken of the real athletes face and plastered onto a model), albeit a little akward at times. Some people prefer the "cartoony" look to the PES series (all characters are drawn through in engine modeling tools), though the models can be more detailed.
Personally I think those comparisons offered earlier are very poor.
When I purchased PES 3 none, NONE, of the faces or kits shown above were included. THUS, the graphics of PES 3 are not correctly respresented. With a direct comparison of the modeling I'd say that PES 3 is pooring in that aspect. However, with all the fan moding, the models in PES 3 can be improved greatly. As can anything for that matter, with a lot of hard work and dedication I've seen FIFA 2004 turned into a decent looking game...
It is nice to know that the PES 3 engine is capable of such detail, since PES 4 uses the EXACT same engine. Thus again, comparing the two is useless.
The artistry, and modeling (which comes with the liscence to do so) does in fact make a distinct difference, especially seeing as how PES 4 actually has some liscences.
A game is what you take away from it. If you like Pro Evolution Soccer so much, and you believe it to be superior to EA's FIFA series... then get a job at Konami in their marketing department. Likewise for the FIFA series.
Personally I play both games, and enjoy them both for different aspects of their gameplay. I find neither superior to the other overall, each have their quirks and niches.
BOTH games, when compared to other sporting titles out there, are increadibly inferior. Ultimatley both games have poor gameplay, and the most godaweful graphics I have ever seen (just compare to NFL2K5).
So at the end of the day play what makes you happy, and keep it to yourself. You can't force your enjoyment of a certain product on other people, and no amount of cursing, swearing and general insulting will ever affect anything.
In terms of gameplay, all "gameplay" is, is how much you get out of the game. How much you enjoy it, when you sit down, how much control you percieve you have, and how much of it that you want.
As for graphics, everyone has preferences. Some people like the photorealism of fifa (Since the majority of the faces are simply pictures taken of the real athletes face and plastered onto a model), albeit a little akward at times. Some people prefer the "cartoony" look to the PES series (all characters are drawn through in engine modeling tools), though the models can be more detailed.
Personally I think those comparisons offered earlier are very poor.
When I purchased PES 3 none, NONE, of the faces or kits shown above were included. THUS, the graphics of PES 3 are not correctly respresented. With a direct comparison of the modeling I'd say that PES 3 is pooring in that aspect. However, with all the fan moding, the models in PES 3 can be improved greatly. As can anything for that matter, with a lot of hard work and dedication I've seen FIFA 2004 turned into a decent looking game...
It is nice to know that the PES 3 engine is capable of such detail, since PES 4 uses the EXACT same engine. Thus again, comparing the two is useless.
The artistry, and modeling (which comes with the liscence to do so) does in fact make a distinct difference, especially seeing as how PES 4 actually has some liscences.
A game is what you take away from it. If you like Pro Evolution Soccer so much, and you believe it to be superior to EA's FIFA series... then get a job at Konami in their marketing department. Likewise for the FIFA series.
Personally I play both games, and enjoy them both for different aspects of their gameplay. I find neither superior to the other overall, each have their quirks and niches.
BOTH games, when compared to other sporting titles out there, are increadibly inferior. Ultimatley both games have poor gameplay, and the most godaweful graphics I have ever seen (just compare to NFL2K5).
So at the end of the day play what makes you happy, and keep it to yourself. You can't force your enjoyment of a certain product on other people, and no amount of cursing, swearing and general insulting will ever affect anything.
Mel Brennan
Youth Team
No, but there is a point to debating it. See my "FIFA addict/PES3/face of God thread."
Now see, that in and of itself is debatable, which is part of the reason for boards like this...to talk about different definitions of different terms and ideas, and, well, debate them.
Insightful.
Now that you've RE-submitted that which you could have found already submitted had you done a BASIC forum search, we'll get to your points, such that they are:
I never expected you to be able to represent anything other than your personal POV. What, did you think that we thought that the above was a public viewpoint? That you came here representing a constituency? The comparisons above represent the games the way I - personally - play them, that's all. Everything here is personal; that qualifer is not needed.
Well, given YOUR OWN defintion of "gameplay," sure they are, but we won't let your internal inconsistency get in the way of a good rant. In addition, if you are interested only in the off-the-shelf versions of FIFA, then your point below makes no sense:
How does any of that refute MY point that the assertion that FIFA is generations ahead of PES in terms of its graphics capability is patently false? Oh, it doesn't. My bad. And I thought we were talking about off-the-shelf product? Oh, only when it suits your point and POV. I understnad you much better now.
So is begging the question and employng post hoc ergo propter hoc, but don't let that stop you.
Or, in a world with ever expanding notions of free speech, and particularly a board NAMED "PES vs FIFA," feel free to speak your mind on concomitant issues relative to the board title.
Again with the "personally" qualification, as if you could represent anyone other than yourself and your opinion.
Untrue. If you are talking about my definition of gameplay development, EA is in fact poor when compared to its own Madden and NHL series. But your gameplay opinion on PES is overwhelmingly in the minority. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but is does mean that your POV is absolutely debatable...which is what the forum is for.
Funnily enough, if you had followed your OWN advice, we'd never have this conversation!
Or, of far greater importance is a place where everyone can offer critical analysis of not only the product, but also the process of possibility. Having worked for SEGA Gameworks, ESPNZone, and WWF New York as the GM of Attractions and Games Development, before going on to work at CONCACAF as Head of Special Projects, I feel I bring a bit more experience to the table than you on this issue, yet I STILL feel that the discussion here and on other boards is one of the best "laboratories" to examine the thoughts on the gamer's edge of football gaming.
You recommendation that everyone just be quiet and keep their opinions to themsevles is anti-democratic, anti-message board, and anti-progress into considering alternative models and agendas for game development. If anyone should be keeping anything to themselves, you might want to consider keeping that regressive framing of the issue bottled up. It's antithetical to the very notions and sensibilities that bring us here!
CopeCOwBoy
Reserve Team
sorry buddy, do some research first, the graphics for nhl 2k5 by espn are worse than nhl 2002
CopeCOwBoy
Reserve Team
but theres a lot more detail , not to mention the fans move and thier 3d, than you got your 12 skaters and the ref, coaches trainers which you see a lot.the game actuley looks better on my comp than those screens, the addons are great gotta love those 4x unis. but if you dont have a good comp your stuck on low res..
CopeCOwBoy
Reserve Team
yah i know i keep clicking on the quote button above my post, used to a different forum
Verbatable
Club Supporter
- No, but there is a point to debating it. See my "FIFA
addict/PES3/face of God thread."
I believe I read that. You basically "converted" from one franchise to another. I have never subscribed to a single franchise, thus I have never felt the need to convert. I don't treat my football game like a religion, more like a drug (each is potent in its own way).
- Now see, that in and of itself is debatable, which is part of
the reason for boards like this...to talk about different
definitions of different terms and ideas, and, well, debate them.
Indeed, a good debate is worthy, and in cases like this (ongoing video game development) a debate can aid the process.
-Oops, I mean PES3! They always talk about how FIFA's draw is
the graphics...really? Take a look, and tell me what the
significant differences are, please:
That was your original post... refering to the whole debate issue. I believe you talked about getting your PHD, in what, I have no clue. I hope along your chosen path in the academic world you stumbled upon how organised debates work... Usually you present some initial relevent evidence, with an indepth question in order for the parties to debate in an effective manner.
You on the other hand neglected to even post screen shots which were half decent comparisons, no close ups (which is where the real differences will be evident) and no actual links to mpegs of real game action (FIFA isn't a turn based slideshow, neither is PES, thus long range screen shots of the action show little but one frame from the millions which go by in a single game. One frame is very much suseptible to say rendering issues, incurred by an error in ones video drivers, a graphical pipeline processing error etc...) Your questions posed.... well, knowing the types of people who frequent these boards, a civilised debate is not something which is prone to happen, especially when a "case" such as your is presented in such a poor manner.
- never expected you to be able to represent anything other
than your personal POV. What, did you think that we thought
that the above was a public viewpoint? That you came here
representing a constituency? The comparisons above
represent the games the way I - personally - play them, that's
all. Everything here is personal; that qualifer is not needed.
I'll touch on your supposed PHD again... perhaps if I were writing a formal essay the qualifier is not needed, and is indeed improper. However, in an informal sense, such as this message board, you will realise that such a use of the english language is, infact, decent grammar, and a qualifier which accentuates the fact that I am speaking from a strong personal opinion, as opposed to some flighty unbiased observation. If you really wish to see this type of language in use, I believe that under the definition of "personally", dictionary.com provides a couple of examples of common usage. If you really want to go after my use of language, maybe you realise that I comma splice constantly, or use conjuctions like a madman. I rarely edit what I write, unless I am actually taking part in a sensible, somewhat organised debate, even then, I write as if I am speaking personally (as you say), and I use personally as a qualifier in my day to day speech. And verable contact I find even more personal than written.
When I bought the game none of those kits shown in your pictures were included. You focus on how I seem to identify gameplay as how much you enjoy playing the game. Indeed, that is how I percieve gameplay. If you are going to compare the moded graphics in PES 3 to those in FIFA 2005, and then compare the moded graphics in PES 3 to PES 4... well... you are comparing a third party's efforts at creating faces and kits utilising the PES system, then comparing it to two unmoded first party games, and claiming that you see no, or little, difference.
My issue with that comparison, and how it is unfair, is that you are neglecting to compare the actual graphics. The actual graphics of PES 3 which KONAMI released aren't really showvased there. You aren't comparing apples to apples. Download some of the FIFA 2004 Fan art and then compare it to PES 3 modified stuff. That would be a much more effective and sensible comparison. Comparing demo graphics, to a heavily modified game, by no means demonstrates the true graphical differences between each's base engine. Again, showing how poorly setup your "debate" is.
- How does any of that refute MY point that the assertion that FIFA is generations ahead of PES in terms of its graphics capability is patently false? Oh, it doesn't. My bad. And I thought we were talking about off-the-shelf product? Oh, only when it suits your point and POV. I understnad you much better now.
Considering I already quoted your initial arguement, and it in no way resembled this new one... you wanted people to present you with situations which would prove your idea that FIFA is only better in the graphics department, an Idea you were definetly questioning. You never actually stated that you believed the mystical assertion (which I have yet to clearly read in any post) that FIFA employs graphics generations ahead of PES.
I don't believe I bothered to even refute that. Graphics capability is quite a different subject, especially considering that you (once again) neglected to mention the whole capablility aspect of the issue in your opening posts.
PES 4 is a better demonstration of the graphics capability of the series, considering it uses the same engine, and is worked on by professionals who created the original game. Thus using PES 3 for a comparison seems silly again.
-Again with the "personally" qualification, as if you could represent anyone other than yourself and your opinion.
I qualified with personally, in this case, to indicate that I play these games alone. In the most personal of environments. I don't play them regularly with other people, instead I play them personally. (The word personally actually has more than one use! Imagine that... oh, but you work for CONCACAF... that explains alot...
)
I initially said that argument isn't necessary. If you really wish to debate the subject, than actually present a real debate with some good screen shots, mpegs and straight forward questions.
Someone with your apparent education should be able to muster that much.
I know, from my extensive years in University, and even working at ATI as a Senior Hardware Engineering Specialist that University degrees, and "higher education" is infact no guarantee that the people undertaking, or currently holding a degree from these institutions, is not, infact, an idiot.
Don't consider yourself immune.
addict/PES3/face of God thread."
I believe I read that. You basically "converted" from one franchise to another. I have never subscribed to a single franchise, thus I have never felt the need to convert. I don't treat my football game like a religion, more like a drug (each is potent in its own way).
- Now see, that in and of itself is debatable, which is part of
the reason for boards like this...to talk about different
definitions of different terms and ideas, and, well, debate them.
Indeed, a good debate is worthy, and in cases like this (ongoing video game development) a debate can aid the process.
-Oops, I mean PES3! They always talk about how FIFA's draw is
the graphics...really? Take a look, and tell me what the
significant differences are, please:
That was your original post... refering to the whole debate issue. I believe you talked about getting your PHD, in what, I have no clue. I hope along your chosen path in the academic world you stumbled upon how organised debates work... Usually you present some initial relevent evidence, with an indepth question in order for the parties to debate in an effective manner.
You on the other hand neglected to even post screen shots which were half decent comparisons, no close ups (which is where the real differences will be evident) and no actual links to mpegs of real game action (FIFA isn't a turn based slideshow, neither is PES, thus long range screen shots of the action show little but one frame from the millions which go by in a single game. One frame is very much suseptible to say rendering issues, incurred by an error in ones video drivers, a graphical pipeline processing error etc...) Your questions posed.... well, knowing the types of people who frequent these boards, a civilised debate is not something which is prone to happen, especially when a "case" such as your is presented in such a poor manner.
- never expected you to be able to represent anything other
than your personal POV. What, did you think that we thought
that the above was a public viewpoint? That you came here
representing a constituency? The comparisons above
represent the games the way I - personally - play them, that's
all. Everything here is personal; that qualifer is not needed.
I'll touch on your supposed PHD again... perhaps if I were writing a formal essay the qualifier is not needed, and is indeed improper. However, in an informal sense, such as this message board, you will realise that such a use of the english language is, infact, decent grammar, and a qualifier which accentuates the fact that I am speaking from a strong personal opinion, as opposed to some flighty unbiased observation. If you really wish to see this type of language in use, I believe that under the definition of "personally", dictionary.com provides a couple of examples of common usage. If you really want to go after my use of language, maybe you realise that I comma splice constantly, or use conjuctions like a madman. I rarely edit what I write, unless I am actually taking part in a sensible, somewhat organised debate, even then, I write as if I am speaking personally (as you say), and I use personally as a qualifier in my day to day speech. And verable contact I find even more personal than written.
When I bought the game none of those kits shown in your pictures were included. You focus on how I seem to identify gameplay as how much you enjoy playing the game. Indeed, that is how I percieve gameplay. If you are going to compare the moded graphics in PES 3 to those in FIFA 2005, and then compare the moded graphics in PES 3 to PES 4... well... you are comparing a third party's efforts at creating faces and kits utilising the PES system, then comparing it to two unmoded first party games, and claiming that you see no, or little, difference.
My issue with that comparison, and how it is unfair, is that you are neglecting to compare the actual graphics. The actual graphics of PES 3 which KONAMI released aren't really showvased there. You aren't comparing apples to apples. Download some of the FIFA 2004 Fan art and then compare it to PES 3 modified stuff. That would be a much more effective and sensible comparison. Comparing demo graphics, to a heavily modified game, by no means demonstrates the true graphical differences between each's base engine. Again, showing how poorly setup your "debate" is.
- How does any of that refute MY point that the assertion that FIFA is generations ahead of PES in terms of its graphics capability is patently false? Oh, it doesn't. My bad. And I thought we were talking about off-the-shelf product? Oh, only when it suits your point and POV. I understnad you much better now.
Considering I already quoted your initial arguement, and it in no way resembled this new one... you wanted people to present you with situations which would prove your idea that FIFA is only better in the graphics department, an Idea you were definetly questioning. You never actually stated that you believed the mystical assertion (which I have yet to clearly read in any post) that FIFA employs graphics generations ahead of PES.
I don't believe I bothered to even refute that. Graphics capability is quite a different subject, especially considering that you (once again) neglected to mention the whole capablility aspect of the issue in your opening posts.
PES 4 is a better demonstration of the graphics capability of the series, considering it uses the same engine, and is worked on by professionals who created the original game. Thus using PES 3 for a comparison seems silly again.
-Again with the "personally" qualification, as if you could represent anyone other than yourself and your opinion.
I qualified with personally, in this case, to indicate that I play these games alone. In the most personal of environments. I don't play them regularly with other people, instead I play them personally. (The word personally actually has more than one use! Imagine that... oh, but you work for CONCACAF... that explains alot...
) I initially said that argument isn't necessary. If you really wish to debate the subject, than actually present a real debate with some good screen shots, mpegs and straight forward questions.
Someone with your apparent education should be able to muster that much.
I know, from my extensive years in University, and even working at ATI as a Senior Hardware Engineering Specialist that University degrees, and "higher education" is infact no guarantee that the people undertaking, or currently holding a degree from these institutions, is not, infact, an idiot.
Don't consider yourself immune.
Mel Brennan
Youth Team
Get internally consistent, and, again, deal with your post hoc ergo propter hoc, and we can talk. We can even debate.
Everything else you posted DID make me laugh, though...thanks!
Verbatable
Club Supporter
-...So at the end of the day play what makes you happy, and keep it to yourself....
I suppose context would help. Again, people start saying PES sucks, or FIFA sucks etc... Next time I"ll remember to preface my post with parameters (like variables, and constants (programming wise)) so only people who apply will be able to take exception to certain aspects of my little dissertation.
BTW, I do my best. I don't troll really, but I do enjoy stimulating a reaction .
And as for your vaunted "post hoc ergo propter hoc", a common fallacy commited during many logical dissertations, I'd like to see a few examples of myself employing this in the last couple of posts. If you can direct me to it, then I will be able to improve in that area will I not(or clarify the issue, I am hurried sometimes when I reply)?
Or are you going to utter an insecure chuckle at the thought of being put to task?
I suppose context would help. Again, people start saying PES sucks, or FIFA sucks etc... Next time I"ll remember to preface my post with parameters (like variables, and constants (programming wise)) so only people who apply will be able to take exception to certain aspects of my little dissertation.
BTW, I do my best. I don't troll really, but I do enjoy stimulating a reaction
.And as for your vaunted "post hoc ergo propter hoc", a common fallacy commited during many logical dissertations, I'd like to see a few examples of myself employing this in the last couple of posts. If you can direct me to it, then I will be able to improve in that area will I not(or clarify the issue, I am hurried sometimes when I reply)?
Or are you going to utter an insecure chuckle at the thought of being put to task?
Mel Brennan
Youth Team
Originally posted by Verbatable
...are you going to utter an insecure chuckle at the thought of being put to task?
I am utterly and incomparably insecure. You can follow this by noting my commenting regularly throughout on your background and/or education.
So you win; I remain powerless before the power of your intellect, and concede defeat...I've never been more wrong!
Thanks for squaring me away. This moment is epiphanic.
Verbatable
Club Supporter
I must apologise to you. After all, you are a "true gamer". And I cringe at having ousted you at a battle of wits.
After all, perhaps I was wrong. Your insecureness aided in the singularisation of such "uneeded" qualifiers as personally. That sort of argument definetly progresses a debate about graphical differences! Boy was I wrong about FIFA and PES 3s graphics. If only I had known the whole personal side of the issue...
I suppose I was blind in not seeing this.
Perhaps next time I will lament from mentioning your educational background, I'll just ignore links to your biography and history of video gaming and education in the future
-Having worked for SEGA Gameworks, ESPNZone, and WWF New York as the GM of Attractions and Games Development, before going on to work at CONCACAF as Head of Special Projects, I feel I bring a bit more experience to the table than you on this issue,
...
well then... I suppose you read my mind before we even began. I sure wish I could "feel" out other people's experiences...
-You can follow this by noting my commenting regularly throughout on your background and/or education.
indeed, I suppose touching on your "PHD" I could be wrong, and probably am that you said you had one. My bad, I think I referenced that twice... I'll refrain from doing so in the future.
I didn't realise that you took this so seriously as to believe that you or I could win! How quaint! If only I'd known that winning was an objective of online forum going...
Today has truly been an educational experience, coupled with my first soccergaming victory! Truly a great day...
After all, perhaps I was wrong. Your insecureness aided in the singularisation of such "uneeded" qualifiers as personally. That sort of argument definetly progresses a debate about graphical differences! Boy was I wrong about FIFA and PES 3s graphics. If only I had known the whole personal side of the issue...
I suppose I was blind in not seeing this.
Perhaps next time I will lament from mentioning your educational background, I'll just ignore links to your biography and history of video gaming and education in the future
-Having worked for SEGA Gameworks, ESPNZone, and WWF New York as the GM of Attractions and Games Development, before going on to work at CONCACAF as Head of Special Projects, I feel I bring a bit more experience to the table than you on this issue,
...
well then... I suppose you read my mind before we even began. I sure wish I could "feel" out other people's experiences...
-You can follow this by noting my commenting regularly throughout on your background and/or education.
indeed, I suppose touching on your "PHD" I could be wrong, and probably am that you said you had one. My bad, I think I referenced that twice... I'll refrain from doing so in the future.
I didn't realise that you took this so seriously as to believe that you or I could win! How quaint! If only I'd known that winning was an objective of online forum going...
Today has truly been an educational experience, coupled with my first soccergaming victory! Truly a great day...
MindStealeR
Youth Team
i guess sum of u r wrong
Well...i'm sorry 4 saying thins but...fifa 2005's gaphics r much better n i think that every human being with 2 eyes n a brain can realize that.....in fifa players wear shoes; in PES/WE they wear 2 blocs of concrete
...in fifa the animation is much better too and the movements are much more fluid...the illumination and the shadows are much reallistic, the faces are gr8 and the shape of the boddies are much better too...
I've been playin PES3 and i quited...cause it SUCKS BIG TIME
Lookin 4ward 2 hav pes4 and fifa 2005 in hands to compare them...
Well...i'm sorry 4 saying thins but...fifa 2005's gaphics r much better n i think that every human being with 2 eyes n a brain can realize that.....in fifa players wear shoes; in PES/WE they wear 2 blocs of concrete
...in fifa the animation is much better too and the movements are much more fluid...the illumination and the shadows are much reallistic, the faces are gr8 and the shape of the boddies are much better too...I've been playin PES3 and i quited...cause it SUCKS BIG TIME
Lookin 4ward 2 hav pes4 and fifa 2005 in hands to compare them...
i really have some german fifa fans here saying that pires looks more realistic in fifa,and pes nedved doesn't look like the real person at all.COME OOON!!!!what da fuxk are you smoking,gimmemeeeee!!!
even the biggest fifa fanboyy has to admit that pes faces are better in every aspect - textures, details, head form...
even the biggest fifa fanboyy has to admit that pes faces are better in every aspect - textures, details, head form...
lol, again you 
your sig says you haven't played PES4 yet
so you haven't seen PES4 faces in action
so you cannot compare them to fifa2005 faces
picture above shows fifa 2005 plastic dolls on the left, real faces on the right and pes4 natural looking faces in the middle; if anyone looking at this concrete pic says that faces on the left are more similar to faces on the right, well
glasses...
your sig says you haven't played PES4 yet
so you haven't seen PES4 faces in action
so you cannot compare them to fifa2005 faces
picture above shows fifa 2005 plastic dolls on the left, real faces on the right and pes4 natural looking faces in the middle; if anyone looking at this concrete pic says that faces on the left are more similar to faces on the right, well
glasses...