C&V Interview with Seabass!!!

[V-9]

Originally posted by BlademanX
ps2 graphics are kind of bullocks compared to x box.......they basically use fmv graphics while ps2 has squares lurking about........why dont konami release their bloody games on 4.7 or 6 gig dvd disc...............for goodness sake..................

Oh my. You might want to retract that statement. PES, PES2 and PES3 are all on DVD.

Jumbo,
All that tech spec you post about the PS2 versus XBOX are little bit suspect. I can post something similiar to that.
http://hankfiles.pcvsconsole.com/answer.php?file=258

Do you know that Naughty Dog is essentially SONY's? SONY bought them out.
Here is an article from IGN regarding DOA on the XBOX.
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/095/095116p1.html

IGNXbox: We totally agree with you on that point! The special effects are amazing in DOA3, and it's looking like your talking full advantage of the greater technical power of the Xbox. In terms of the technical aspects, what are the differences between DOA2 and DOA3, and how much of a difference is it using the Xbox?

TI: Speaking of polygons in both type of machines, there's a huge difference. The demo version we showed is in Alpha 2 stage of development. And even at the early Alpha 2 stage, is uses three to four times more polygons than the final PS2 version. And it's not a simple benchmark that I'm talking about; I'm talking about actual in-game real-time graphics. Many people say that the number of polygons or having more polygon pushing power is not necessary or not important, but that's not the case. Several of the special effects and elements we're using [in DOA3] are only made possible with the additional polygons that are available when developing on the Xbox.

When developing on the PS2, when we try to increase the polygons, the images become rougher. To make the comparison on the Xbox... well, you know who Ryu Hayabusa is, right?

IGNXbox: Yes, of course. He's the male ninja in the game and Ninja Gaiden hero.

TI: You've seen the demo sequence in the forest when he appears, right? In that sequence, there are 5000 leaves swirling around.

IGNXbox: 5000 leaves!?!?

TI: Yes, it's a nice special effect, no? Only with the power of Xbox, we can express and create such a scene.

I don't want this to turn to a PS2 versus XBOX debate. Each system has its own pros and cons. But overall, the XBOX is the more powerful of two systems.

 

[jumbo]

Even if X-Box is more powerful than PS2, I still don't see a good reason to call playstation 2 "an outdated piece of sh!t"... Even if the article I posted is "a little bit suspect" it doesn't matter. Just look at all the upcoming PS2 titles like MGS3, GT4, KillZone, etc. Why do they look so damn good on such an outdate piece of sh!t? Why does SH3 look so damn good? Why is UBI releasing SC2 for PS2?

 

[V-9]

Originally posted by jumbo
Even if X-Box is more powerful than PS2, I still don't see a good reason to call playstation 2 "an outdated piece of sh!t"... Even if the article I posted is "a little bit suspect" it doesn't matter. Just look at all the upcoming PS2 titles like MGS3, GT4, KillZone, etc. Why do they look so damn good on such an outdate piece of sh!t? Why does SH3 look so damn good? Why is UBI releasing SC2 for PS2?

I don't ever recall the PS2 a piece of sh!t. I don't have even have a XBOX. There are lots of quality games for the PS2 compare to the XBOX which is one reason why I still haven't got a XBOX. If the WE/PES ever does make it to the XBOX, I will get it for sure.

But back to you questions about why MGS3, GT4. KillZone have awesome graphics? Are we talking about graphics here in the case of what Seabass was saying about his team maximizing the PS2 capabilities. He is talking about memory processing speed in relative to AI. A game can look great but a game is more than just graphics. In the case of a like WE7 or PES3, the AI uses more of the CPU and memory then does the graphics portion.

 

[jumbo]

Well, I don't know... I'm going to class now. I'll post something later.

Later.

 

[valioso]

yes but you also need speed to process those metal gear killer graphics... and pes doesnt have the same level of demand from their graphics engine.. and if they do.. then they have programming issues... so they can use the extra for a more complicated AI.
Or even with the AI they have right now.. it has plenty of flaws.. I seriously doubt they couldnt tweak things to make it better. somehow the pes series always resolves to lazy programming.. like the rosters...

 

[V-9]

Originally posted by valioso
yes but you also need speed to process those metal gear killer graphics... and pes doesnt have the same level of demand from their graphics engine.. and if they do.. then they have programming issues... so they can use the extra for a more complicated AI.
Or even with the AI they have right now.. it has plenty of flaws.. I seriously doubt they couldnt tweak things to make it better. somehow the pes series always resolves to lazy programming.. like the rosters...

Yes, Val. KCET are lazy bastards who only wish they can work for EA so they can learn how to program intelligent and smarter AI like EA does with FIFA. Do you have anything good to say about WE/PES?

Please enlighten us all about WE/PES AI shortcomings and what it needed to make it better. How do you differentiate the difference between the levels? How do you make a balance AI where even on the hardest level, a weak team like China will give the gamer a challenge.

 

[valioso]

no matter how much you love your pes games... if you cannot admit its flaws then you are just another fanboy, at which pt is impossible to have anything resembling a discussion.

I havent said anything about EA's AI or programming talents.. so I dont know whats your pt in bringing that up.

 

[V-9]

Originally posted by valioso
no matter how much you love your pes games... if you cannot admit its flaws then you are just another fanboy, at which pt is impossible to have anything resembling a discussion.

I havent said anything about EA's AI or programming talents.. so I dont know whats your pt in bringing that up.

Oh please. If you actually read my posts, I am more critical with KCET as anyone else here.
I have issue with you because you believe that you don't have a biased for or against WE/PES or FIFA. Well, you true color shows every time you show on this board. All I have to ask you, what are the flaws that you have personally experience with the AI in WE7 or PES3. Not from what you have read and how can you make it better?
I brought up EA's programming talents because how appropriate is it for you to call KCET lazy when:
a). You have no proof but.
b.) Defend EA's programmers laziness when others question them.

 

[valioso]

i havent played pes3 yet... when I buy the pc version I will tell you.. the fact that a game that comes out in october has rosters that old.. thats laziness.

About EA, I have bashed fifa 2003 plenty of times, I have always said that pes is a better game, I have said that I doubt fifa 2004 will be better than pes.

anyway back to the original topic... Seabass is making lame excuses, the problem is people can see thru them.

 

[Edmundo22]

Originally posted by valioso
yes but you also need speed to process those metal gear killer graphics... and pes doesnt have the same level of demand from their graphics engine.. and if they do.. then they have programming issues... so they can use the extra for a more complicated AI.
Or even with the AI they have right now.. it has plenty of flaws.. I seriously doubt they couldnt tweak things to make it better. somehow the pes series always resolves to lazy programming.. like the rosters...

How can the best game on the planet be made by lazy programmers?? it defies logic

Seabass explains why it is impossible to have up-to date rosters, have a read.

 

[V-9]

Originally posted by valioso
i havent played pes3 yet... when I buy the pc version I will tell you.. the fact that a game that comes out in october has rosters that old.. thats laziness.

About EA, I have bashed fifa 2003 plenty of times, I have always said that pes is a better game, I have said that I doubt fifa 2004 will be better than pes.

anyway back to the original topic... Seabass is making lame excuses, the problem is people can see thru them.

Originally posted by V-9
Seabass is starting to sound like that Danny Isaac dude with regard to the rosters.

 

[valioso]

Originally posted by Edmundo22
How can the best game on the planet be made by lazy programmers?? it defies logic

Seabass explains why it is impossible to have up-to date rosters, have a read.

and somehow both Club Football and Fifa, with the same fifpro license.. have up to date rosters?

 

[Edmundo22]

If you consider the release dates of the titles you mentioned then I think you will find these game makers face a similar problem. If fifa04 is released in November and WE7 in September , I wonder which game will have up-to date rosters considering the approval time turnaround. In any case , KCET have implemented a transfers system so that you can make them yourself..

 

[Perth Glory]

heh, I'd love to see what Seabass and KCET could achieve if they were motivated

Rosters are an irrelevant point...a week after release someone will have a patch with updated teams(a point Seabass acknowledges), hopefully someone will crack the image format aswell so we can have official kits and leagues in the master league.

I don't agree that Seabass is BSing, actually quite the opposite..I usually find his answers refreshingly honest(for a game developer at least). The way I read it he would love to have all the licenses and update the Fifpro license, which I'm sure they could do with the right amount of $$, but Konami are happy with their current return on investment.

 

[Bootylactin]

Originally posted by Perth Glory
I don't agree that Seabass is BSing, actually quite the opposite..I usually find his answers refreshingly honest(for a game developer at least).

I agree 100%. I remember reading an interview with the producer (I think?) of the FIFA series, where he made the statement that he believed FIFA 2003 to be better than the WE/PES series. Say it with me now, "LIAR!!!"

Seabass' answers are MUCH MORE straightforward than any of the gibberish I've read from EA developers. He gets full marks in my book.

 

[culo]

whilst the explantion as to why they can't have up-tp-date licensed rosters seems fair enough, what I don't understand is why they can't just give up-to-date rosters but with slightly mis-spelled player names? is it really do crucial to have that license? just stick Peckham at Real Madrid, Macaleli at Chelseas, etc and let us change the spelling instead of having to get involved in their awkward in-game player transfer tool

and why still so few teams anyway? and why such a poor tournament editor? can't even play full Champ's League format (why no f*cking home and away...jeez), no full UEFA Cup format, no WC/EC qualifiers...just the same old unimaginative tournies as we've had for the past few years

I won't describe the PES/WE team as lazy on most issues, but they've really done very little work on this fundamental aspect of their game

 

[Tom Green]

Originally posted by jumbo
Like you know sh!t? I hate when people post this stupid bs. Why don't you do a ****ing research on the upcoming ps2 titles or some shlt. or just watch the ****in MGS3 trailer...

EDIT: watch the MGS3 trailer. keep a ****ing mop handy.

Oh Please ,it is a KNOWN fact that the ps2's severely underpowered and miles behind the XBOX in all areas,it's not like I didn't shell out $200 for one like everyone else here either. There is no discussion about it, it's like trying to make an argument saying Cuba's better than Brazil in soccer, it's nothing more than outright lies and a serious lack of knowledge.
You keep talking about "MGS3", I suggest you go take a look at "Halo 2", "Project Gotham Racing 2", "Rallisport Challenge 2", "Doom 3", "Crimson Skies", "Rainbow Six 3","Ninja Gaiden","Jade Empire",etc. If you want to see what some real good-looking games look like.

 

[jumbo]

Originally posted by Tom Green
Oh Please ,it is a KNOWN fact that the ps2's severely underpowered and miles behind the XBOX in all areas,it's not like I didn't shell out $200 for one like everyone else here either. There is no discussion about it, it's like trying to make an argument saying Cuba's better than Brazil in soccer, it's nothing more than outright lies and a serious lack of knowledge.
You keep talking about "MGS3", I suggest you go take a look at "Halo 2", "Project Gotham Racing 2", "Rallisport Challenge 2", "Doom 3", "Crimson Skies", "Rainbow Six 3","Ninja Gaiden","Jade Empire",etc. If you want to see what some real good-looking games look like.

You make yourself look like a n00b. Dude, X-Box is more powerful than PS2 but PS2 still has tons of potential.

If you think you can throw those names at me and I'll get scared you're wrong. Here, I'ma counter:

Killzone is my answer to Halo 2, Doom 3

Gran Turismo 4 is my answer to PGR2 and RC2 (first they have to catch up with GT3 though, which is still the best looking driving game out)

Metal Gear 3 is my answer to Ninja Gaiden and I hope it ownz the **** out of it

SOCOM 2 is my answer to Rainbow Six 3. I don't know about them graphics but in terms of gameplay S2 will OWN RS3.

 

[valioso]

Originally posted by Edmundo22
If you consider the release dates of the titles you mentioned then I think you will find these game makers face a similar problem. If fifa04 is released in November and WE7 in September , I wonder which game will have up-to date rosters considering the approval time turnaround. In any case , KCET have implemented a transfers system so that you can make them yourself..

PES comes out in october... it comes out a week later than Club Football.. so how does club football have up to date rosters and pes not?

Also, when is Konami going to learn and release the game worldwide to maximize profits? but thats another story.

About xbox vs ps2, the xbox is more powerful there is no doubt about it. you only have to take a look at the splinter cell version of xbox and the splinter cell version of ps2 and how different the graphics are.

 

[Tom Green]

Originally posted by jumbo
stuff

Oookay buddy, whatever. I don't want to turn this into a stupid "xbox is better" vs "stfu, ps2 ownz j0 mang" argument.

Anyway, I don't think Club Football is much of a threat to PES, and come on, this time, they're letting us update the rosters, that's better than nothing, and if he says they can't do it, then they probably can't, even if he sounds like Danny Isaac, at least we know he'll deliver( Danny Isaac saying FIFA was going to be better than PES, just to be incredibly humilliated by both fans and the media after release, he said the same thing this year too.)