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Any muslims on SG? please help me
- Thread starter nird
- Start date
Explain me one thing: Neither Denmark or Norway or any other European country belong to the Muslim World so why should these rules apply to them? There's no law telling the Western World to accept the rules of the Quran.CapaJr said:
The Muslims living in Europe came for a reason, most of them are seeking for a better life than in their own countries. BUT they have to respect our laws which the overwhelming majority does.
You won't find a place where religious beliefs are more respected than in Europe. How would Turkey react if the Christian minority wanted to build a church there?
So stop your damn hypocrisy.
-Vince- said:
learn before you speak, says our ancestors, that applies to you. Turkey is full of churches, in fact, there is a real beautiful ortodox church just next to my parents house. so nice try, but maybe next time
also, no european country has to obey our holy book , in this you are right, but you have to respect it, or you dont get respected. - god isnt that what happens for years ?
i said what i think. i hope nothing bad happens, i m sure nobody wants a european 9/11
Ubik Valis
Croatian Viking
I just read that the caricatures were printed in an Egyptian newspaper........back in OCTOBER!!!...and few seemed to give a sh!t.......go figure. 
The_Knight
Senior Squad
Dragan T said:I just read that the caricatures were printed in an Egyptian newspaper........back in OCTOBER!!!...and few seemed to give a sh!t.......go figure.
no they weren't.
the internet....
http://www.pbisd.com/
This website was one the websites that posted the cartoon.
This website was one the websites that posted the cartoon.
TheBlueBalla
Starting XI
Wow. I beg to differsyaz_wan03 said:
No wait, as a matter of fact, you saying that spits on the grave of my relatives and ancestors who have died for freedom in the past, in both the west and east. You need to show DIGNITY AND RESPECT for them. I ought to firebomb the malaysian embassy just to teach you a lesson
Like people have said, all you muslim's getting pissed off over this garbage just become pawns of Hamas, Akmadinejad, Bin Laden and his cronies, etc etc.
Let me ask you all this. Do you not think ignorant, racist trash is printed in this country? Do you not think there isnt someone out there right now, in the backwoods of Alabama, talking about how people like my father should be thrown out of this country because of his background? The small minded, racist, sexist, insensitive trash that people are exposed to every day in the west is, at times, staggering. It makes me angry yes. But I dont think ive ever felt the need to destroy personal property to reflect my frustration at a fundimental right to personal liberty that I enjoy every day (as millions of European muslims do) just to vent my frustration at something that really doesnt have to affect me.
Youre all chanting about respect and dishonor, etc etc. Do you think its just a cooincidence that these militant bastard leaders in the middle east have blown the lid off this cartoon row now, just as Palestine is becoming more radical and Iran is being forcefully halted by the international community. OPEN YOUR EYES. Youre being stoked into even more hatred and venom than already exists for their own purposes. The worst part is that Afghans have lost their lives in clashes with security forces, thousands and thousands of miles from Denmark, over futile rage. Its the very rights to free expression which these people are decrying that prevent European societies for being so destabalized and turbulent, and it was these very same ideals, along with tolerance and benevolence that made the muslim civilizations of a millenia ago so great.
Its sad to see how far things have changed. Of course it lies in economic theorey and history, but to see a great land robbed of such wisdom and learning, only to be blinded by hatred and those that seek to proliferate it in the name of some futile and apolcalyptic crusade against the west is one of the true tragedies of modern history.
We live in a free world where people are allowed to say what they want and do as they please so long as it doesnt interfere with the right of another individual to do the same. We are born free as human beings, and anyone that claims otherwise is full of sh*t. And above all subjugating anyones fundimental rights to freedom of expression, action, etc, in the name of superstition is laughable
Not like anyone cares, but I had to express myself on the matter
: How the holy lands were won back from the infidels, then lost again, then won back, then lost again.My friend when did I say anything about 'talking rubbish' or making fun of any religion. I also am against those Danish pics because I thought they carried racist and xenophobic undertones (Even most the newspapers that republished the images did not deny this, they just argued that it wasn't against their countries' laws to print them).syaz_wan03 said:
However my point was in regards to the illustrating of the prophet, many Muslims went into an uproar not only because the cartoons demonised him but because he was drawn at all.
Its true that Islam not only prohibits the drawing of prophet Muhammad, it also forbids drawing all other prophets of the book (Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Adam, etc). SOME would even argue that drawing ANY animate objects such as humans and animals is contrary to the teachings of Islam.
But other religions and cultures do not have such restrictions so why do they have to adhere to this, isn't that why they're not Muslim? Even some Sufi muslim sects have allowed the practice of drawing the prophet for several centuries now.
When prophet Mohammed started preaching Islam he was ridiculed, insulted, beaten, spat at, and kids pelted him with rocks wherever he went. Did he fight back or reply with similar inults? NO.
His own tribe disowned him and tried to assassinate him several times. His followers were rounded up and tortured. He later escaped and sought refuge in another town (Yathrib/Madina). He was chased there by all the tribes which saw him as a threat to their way of existence. They fought him and lost. When the prophet returned to Mecca to free his supporters he forgave all those who had mistreated him in the past, and told his troops not to harm anyone except those who carry swords against you.
So where do all those people get off burning down embassies and churches and threatening others of beheadings. It's a frickin' disgrace I tell ya
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
So I take it that since no one wants to take me on about the philosophy of free speech I'm correct.
TheBlueBalla said:Wow. I beg to differ
No wait, as a matter of fact, you saying that spits on the grave of my relatives and ancestors who have died for freedom in the past, in both the west and east. You need to show DIGNITY AND RESPECT for them. I ought to firebomb the malaysian embassy just to teach you a lesson
Like people have said, all you muslim's getting pissed off over this garbage just become pawns of Hamas, Akmadinejad, Bin Laden and his cronies, etc etc.
Let me ask you all this. Do you not think ignorant, racist trash is printed in this country? Do you not think there isnt someone out there right now, in the backwoods of Alabama, talking about how people like my father should be thrown out of this country because of his background? The small minded, racist, sexist, insensitive trash that people are exposed to every day in the west is, at times, staggering. It makes me angry yes. But I dont think ive ever felt the need to destroy personal property to reflect my frustration at a fundimental right to personal liberty that I enjoy every day (as millions of European muslims do) just to vent my frustration at something that really doesnt have to affect me.
Youre all chanting about respect and dishonor, etc etc. Do you think its just a cooincidence that these militant bastard leaders in the middle east have blown the lid off this cartoon row now, just as Palestine is becoming more radical and Iran is being forcefully halted by the international community. OPEN YOUR EYES. Youre being stoked into even more hatred and venom than already exists for their own purposes. The worst part is that Afghans have lost their lives in clashes with security forces, thousands and thousands of miles from Denmark, over futile rage. Its the very rights to free expression which these people are decrying that prevent European societies for being so destabalized and turbulent, and it was these very same ideals, along with tolerance and benevolence that made the muslim civilizations of a millenia ago so great.
Its sad to see how far things have changed. Of course it lies in economic theorey and history, but to see a great land robbed of such wisdom and learning, only to be blinded by hatred and those that seek to proliferate it in the name of some futile and apolcalyptic crusade against the west is one of the true tragedies of modern history.
We live in a free world where people are allowed to say what they want and do as they please so long as it doesnt interfere with the right of another individual to do the same. We are born free as human beings, and anyone that claims otherwise is full of sh*t. And above all subjugating anyones fundimental rights to freedom of expression, action, etc, in the name of superstition is laughable
Not like anyone cares, but I had to express myself on the matter
The_Knight
Senior Squad
Krypton X said:When prophet Mohammed started preaching Islam he was ridiculed, insulted, beaten, spat at, and kids pelted him with rocks wherever he went. Did he fight back or reply with similar inults? NO.
His own tribe disowned him and tried to assassinate him several times. His followers were rounded up and tortured. He later escaped and sought refuge in another town (Yathrib/Madina). He was chased there by all the tribes which saw him as a threat to their way of existence. They fought him and lost. When the prophet returned to Mecca to free his supporters he forgave all those who had mistreated him in the past, and told his troops not to harm anyone except those who carry swords against you.
So where do all those people get off burning down embassies and churches and threatening others of beheadings. It's a frickin' disgrace I tell ya
True... as a matter of fact, when the Prophet, his companions, and muslim families of Mecca were cast away by the tribe of Quraysh from Mecca, they were tortured, killed, some losing their sight, and all losing their possessions...
When they returned strong to Mecca, there were some enthusiastic young muslim youth, eager for revenge... of which one was Saad Bin Obada, who while marching ahead to Mecca shouted: "Today is a day of conflict and slaughter, Sanctuary is no more, Allah has humbled and humiliated the tribe of Quraysh."
But Prophet Muhammed, on hearing that, sent Ali after him with orders to take the banner from Saad and lead the Helpers himself, and then the Prophet Muhammed said: "Nay, today is the day of mercy and forgiveness. Today will Allah honor the Quraysh, and raise glory of the Sanctuary."
In Mecca, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) then asked the Quraysh, "O Quraysh, what do you think am I about to do with you?"
"We hope for the best," They replied, "You are a noble brother, son of a noble brother."
The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said in reply, "I say to you what Yusuf (Prophet Joseph) said to his brothers - "Have no fear this day; (Qur'an 12:92) Go your way for you are all free."
This isn't a religious lesson... it isn't a lecture to be ridiculed. It demonstrates how the Islamic response (Prophet Muhammed's) could differ from a young enthusiatic minority's response.
And there comes the responsibility of the governments to control the response of these enthusiatic youths.
The flag burning, embassy torching, wild rioting is TOTALLY unacceptable in Islam. And what makes it worse is that such actions are those that make the headlines and give the entire world a mutilated picture of this peaceful religion.
About the Danish issue, I read this sensible opinion on the BBC that I'd like to share with the rest of you:
"Because we have the legal right to freely express our opinions does not justify using these rights to deliberately hurt others. That is irresponsible and unwise. Every person has the God-given right to choose their faith and worship according to their conscience. It serves no good purpose to insult another's sincere beliefs simply to prove that we are 'allowed' to. Publishing and repeating the cartoons while knowing they would offend, was unwise and irresponsible. But the violent, lawless reaction by the so-called Muslim extremists is totally inexcusable and ironically appears to contradict the teaching of the same leader they claim to defend."
Gordon Bauwens, Glasgow, Scotland
and Peace all.
As far as I know no British paper has printed the cartoons yet. If they did it would be interesting to see how any legal challenges against the publishers would pan out, since there have been other similar precedents before, such as this poem, which has been banned in the UK for 30 years, and still is, under their blasphemy law, because it depicts Jesus Christ as a homosexual. It apparently first came out in a gay magazine.The_Knight said:
TheBlueBalla
Starting XI
That really gets to the heart of the issue. No, printing those cartoons was not responsible, or nice, or very timely. I am usually the first person to condemn such psuedo-racist right wing trash, as I see plenty of it here in the backwoods of the south. But that does not change the fact thatThe_Knight said:
1. The outcry has been beyond a joke, has cost people their lives, and, in my opinion, has been fanned by the conservative element of Musilim leadership for their own selfish purposes
2. Media outlets in a free country have the right to publish what they want, so long as it doesnt violate the decency standards locally set forth (and no, political satire does not do that)
Exactly: Well put. Like Marx with the USSR or PRC, I think the Prophet Mohammed would be quite disheartened to see his vision, the land he and his followers conquered, admittedly through violence, and turned into a massive and pious empire of love and understanding in the service of god being perverted into a hotbed of ignorance, hatred, and senseless violence. Its enough to make one weepKrypton X said:
ahh, religion. The cause of so many problems and the solution to none.
Can anyone actually think of a time when religion has provided the solution to a major problem?
And yet despite the number of problems it has caused, people continue to stand by in. No doubt in places of worship all across the world there have been people praying for a solution to this and yet, ironically, it all started with religion.
I thought that religion encouraged peace and harmony. Yet on so many occasions has been the cause of violence, conflict and hypocrisy. It has been used to justifiy some of the most evil events in the history of the world. Millions of people throughout history have been mindlessly slaughtered in the name of one god or another.
And yet, now, when we claim to be the most advanced we have ever been; when we can only marvel at some of the knowledge and power possesed by the human race; when new obstacles are being conquered, new barriers broken, now, we still allow the harmony between us to be broken by religious ideas that are thousands of years old?
The main issue now, as I see it, is not the cartoon. The cartoon is simply a symbol of a much larger problem. A problem that could lead to the downfall of mankind.
Is that really what religion is about?
Incidentally, any mods reading this may be interested to know that there's a guy running around the forum with part of one of the cartoons in his sig. His profile is here, if you would like to deal with him.
Can anyone actually think of a time when religion has provided the solution to a major problem?
And yet despite the number of problems it has caused, people continue to stand by in. No doubt in places of worship all across the world there have been people praying for a solution to this and yet, ironically, it all started with religion.
I thought that religion encouraged peace and harmony. Yet on so many occasions has been the cause of violence, conflict and hypocrisy. It has been used to justifiy some of the most evil events in the history of the world. Millions of people throughout history have been mindlessly slaughtered in the name of one god or another.
And yet, now, when we claim to be the most advanced we have ever been; when we can only marvel at some of the knowledge and power possesed by the human race; when new obstacles are being conquered, new barriers broken, now, we still allow the harmony between us to be broken by religious ideas that are thousands of years old?
The main issue now, as I see it, is not the cartoon. The cartoon is simply a symbol of a much larger problem. A problem that could lead to the downfall of mankind.
Is that really what religion is about?
Incidentally, any mods reading this may be interested to know that there's a guy running around the forum with part of one of the cartoons in his sig. His profile is here, if you would like to deal with him.
Pure unadulterated Godly worship causes no harm. People are just to blind to see but I guess you can't blame 'em... we are living in Satan's world. It doesn't cause violence, hate, evil, segregation, racism, all the bad things you see in this world. It's those stupid people who by their OWN thinking, twist and manipulate the truth. That's why many people are distanced from God today. Many believe he doesn't even exist and many also blame him for anything bad that happens because all of this violence and hatred that stems from all of these religions. In the beginning there wasn't "religion." Religion is what man has created. In the beginning there was only the pure worship of God, that's it. But over time people came up with their own ideologies and philosophies.. It's kind of like that game we all played in grade school, Telephone. You start with one message and you pass the message on down the line of people and at the end, the message is going to be way different from what the message originally was. It's exactly what we see today. Do you know how many different sects of churches there are? If a priest doesn't like this thing about a church, he'll leave and make his own church based on what HIS beliefs are. Today we have churches for homosexual people. These religous leaders claim they have the spirit of God, but they truly don't. "Hey it's the 21st century so God must approve of being gay right?" I see them holding their Bibles in their hands, but I truly wonder if they've actually read it from the front cover to the back. These priests think they are in some elevated position appointed by God and they look down on people and people actually fall for it. People worship these priests like they're gods themselves! The Bible diliberately condemns these kind of things. It's so ironic. And it's sick watching the churches being turned into businesses. What's more disappointing is watching people actually give in and give up their money. It's not just the churches, all the religions in the world today are so corrupt, there's no true spiritual backing from God whatsoever. Islam too. I can list facts about how Muhammad was a fraud but I won't. What we see in the Middle East today is a prime example of what I'm talking about. There's the moderate Islamist and the radical Islamist. One promotes peace, one promotes terror. The Quran just promotes itself and the people who worship it. And people claim it to be prophetic like the Bible but that's hardly the truth. For example, a Quranic "prophecy" that has not come to be is that Islam will be "victorious over every other religion". Muslims can account for some 11 per cent of the world's population, whereas Hindus claim 12 per cent, so-called Christians 30 per cent, etc. Islam established the "holy war", Jihad, in obedience to the command: "Fight therefore against them until ... the only worship be that of God." (Sura 2:189, rodwell) Even then, Islam hasn't really triumphed and certainly hasn't been victorious over all other religions. If you think about it do you think God would try to promote a small group of people and wage war on everyone else? We live in a huge universe, and we little humans are living on this small piece of rock. Do you really think God would approve of "religion"? I swear, the world is full of grown-up kids. MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOUR GOD. It's ridiculous. Or even better, people think there are actually all these gods in existence and try to make sense of one another. My god is this, your god is that... cool. That's how imperfect we humans are. Man can't rule over man... "Man has dominated man to his injury." (Ecclesiastes 8:9) President Bush is a terrorist. All of the leaders around the world, only in it for the fame and the money. Empty promises, lies, deceit. "You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet." (Matt. 24:6) "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom." Following this "there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences and food shortages." (Luke 21:10, 11) "In the last days . . . men will be lovers of themselves, . . . disobedient to parents, . . . without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, . . . lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, . . . wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse."-2 Tim. 3:1-5, 13. It's all coming true.