2015 NFL & College Football Thread

[Alex]

Rugby League is hugely skill based too. You very rarely get tries created by speed or strength on their own. In fact the fastest players are usually played on the wings, where they rarely receive the ball - and only do in attacking situations. The best players play at halfback or five-eighth and are the quarter back equivalent. They're play makers.

Good forwards (particularly locks) are a mixture of the strongest guys, but also play makers to an extent (I guess a bit like a SF in basketball).

Remember, unlike NFL, all players in Rugby League pass the ball. All players tackle (and need to position themselves correctly in the defensive line. There are as many nuances in RL as there are in American Football. But they're very different ones. The difference is, it's much less position based nuances (though there are certainly those), so players have to learn all of them - not just their particular role.

Being fast, strong and catching could get you in a team, but it won't make you a star.

 

[Alex]

Athletically, for a physical game dominated by speed and strength? We are the world's best!

"Dominated by speed and strength"

The best Rugby League player right now is Johnathan Thurston. He's 190lbs and 5'10" tall. He's also not super fast.

The guy most regard as the best ever (or up there) and the best of the last 30 years is Andrew Johns. Same height as Thurston, weighed about 5lbs more. And definitely not someone who looks an athlete or has an athletic build

The other guys of the last 20 years who could claim to have been the best at some stage - Darren Lockyer, Cameron Smith, are essentially the same.

The only really big names who have been really big/strong/fast guys are really Jarryd Hayne, Sam Burgess and Sonny Bill-Williams.

 

[Mandieta6]

Holy shit. Peyton ties the match with 50 seconds left and Jamaal Charles fumbles for the 2nd time on the day on the first possession and Broncos recover and return it for a TD. Not the best match but what an ending.

 

[Bobby]

John Fox would've called a kneel down.

 

[Chacarita Juniors]

Wow. What an incredible finish to the game.

Jamaal Charles with 2 costly fumbles at both ends of the field.

 

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[RobbieD_PL]

Any thoughts about this? Any explanation about the amateurism & history of it?

 

[Alex]

Any thoughts about this? Any explanation about the amateurism & history of it?

That's brilliant.

I find it quite funny that they can't have any endorsements at all. Obviously it's a can of worms, because if you allow the players to be sponsored than sponsored can really push them towards certain colleges etc, but surely there has to be a better way.

Why not allow an endorsement pool - all endorsements etc go into it and are then split up between all top level NCAA athletes on a pro-rata basis for games played. They could also easily take a cut off the top to go towards a compensation fund to help finish the education of those injured.

One thing I didn't necessarily like was pointing out the low % of College Athletes that go professional. Surely there is a large chunk of College Athletes that are using sport to get a free education, rather than just attending college to further their sporting career? Meaning that % figure is deceptive. The remainder seems pretty spot on to me.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

That's brilliant.

I find it quite funny that they can't have any endorsements at all. Obviously it's a can of worms, because if you allow the players to be sponsored than sponsored can really push them towards certain colleges etc, but surely there has to be a better way.

Why not allow an endorsement pool - all endorsements etc go into it and are then split up between all top level NCAA athletes on a pro-rata basis for games played. They could also easily take a cut off the top to go towards a compensation fund to help finish the education of those injured.

One thing I didn't necessarily like was pointing out the low % of College Athletes that go professional. Surely there is a large chunk of College Athletes that are using sport to get a free education, rather than just attending college to further their sporting career? Meaning that % figure is deceptive. The remainder seems pretty spot on to me.

Well he was kinda saying, if the colleges can't/aren't willing to fund the players out of amateurist passion; why are they buying into every other single possible thing to spread cash like money-angels? Coaches are getting TV shows, endorsements and the like. And broadcasting rights don't funnel down to the players either.

John mentioned too that the whole reason of calling them "student-athletes" was done to implicitly avoid any possible claims from players' to receive payment; both wages AND compensation. However, even if someone not even remotely affiliated with the college sports system gives you a financial benefit because you're a college athlete; you're no longer considered amateur and you lose your scholarship.

Not to mention that the risk of getting injured seems to really outweigh the chance of getting a pro-league draft/contract.

 

[Alex]

Well he was kinda saying, if the colleges can't/aren't willing to fund the players out of amateurist passion; why are they buying into every other single possible thing to spread cash like money-angels? Coaches are getting TV shows, endorsements and the like. And broadcasting rights don't funnel down to the players either.

Ummm, yes? I got it.

John mentioned too that the whole reason of calling them "student-athletes" was done to implicitly avoid any possible claims from players' to receive payment; both wages AND compensation. However, even if someone not even remotely affiliated with the college sports system gives you a financial benefit because you're a college athlete; you're no longer considered amateur and you lose your scholarship.

Not to mention that the risk of getting injured seems to really outweigh the chance of getting a pro-league draft/contract.

And yes I get how it works too.

My suggestions were how the system could be fixed. I thought that was pretty obvious. You asked for thoughts on it, you got them. Then you proceed to basically paraphrase the whole segment, as if it wasn't understood. Not sure what you thought my response was.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

I wasn't trying to cut you down, I was just saying how unlikely it was going to be to even get to a compensation fund happening. Whether from a pool collected as a % of endorsements or just committing to the student's future by keeping the scholarship going after an injury. However, committing to a student's future by keeping the sports' scholarship going would be an unfair advantage, because they're students...

It seems ludicrous that anyone who does a part-time job; except for college sports, has some basic degree of wages and conditions. How come the NCAA players haven't tried to push for collective agreements? Do colleges in the U.S. have student unions like we do here?

 

[Bobby]

Pay is coming. Some schools will do it, some won't. There will probably be a split.

NFL and NBA share some of the blame in this though.

 

[Alex]

Pay is coming. Some schools will do it, some won't. There will probably be a split.

NFL and NBA share some of the blame in this though.

The issue with that is it means richer schools will essentially be professional teams. Paying players more to come play for them. Which is what the amateur rules were meant to avoid. That's why I thought a pool of some description would be good

 

[Bobby]

You also have the issue of Title IX which means female athletes are entitled to the same amount of scholarships as male athletes, that's going to be a big issue. Will they get paid too? I don't know how it will work, I wonder if some will spin their football teams off into private businesses and lease them the school's name and symbols for a nominal fee.

 

[Alex]

You also have the issue of Title IX which means female athletes are entitled to the same amount of scholarships as male athletes, that's going to be a big issue. Will they get paid too? I don't know how it will work, I wonder if some will spin their football teams off into private businesses and lease them the school's name and symbols for a nominal fee.

It'll actually be a pity if that happens. I do like that players often play for their family's college etc and that'll be less likely to happen if it's essentially professional.

Don't get me started on equal pay between male and female sports stars.

I'll just say that professional sports are professional because they're a business. Cash in, cash out. People should be paid based on their money pulling ability.

 

[Bobby]

It would change college sports entirely because the other sports are so dependent on that football (and basketball) revenue.