100.000 people against comunism

[ytwoaone]

Communism can never work. For a society to prosper there has to be rich people to own businesses. This creates competition which drives standards upwards. Monopolys are frowned upon as that business has complete control over standards and aren't forced to spend on improvements (e.g. Railtrack).

Communism state owns everything and every business, quality levels of products and services are allowed to stagnate as state will spend as little as possibleand therefore living standards deterioate.

Yugoslavia was different to the rest of the Eastern bloc as they weren't dependant on Moscow, and the Communists were a little more tolerant of competition.

Anyway every country, even Communist, has rich snobs, and infact the rich snobs in communist state virtually don't earn their wages, infact communism is more like feudalism than marxism.

 

[Ubik Valis]

Originally posted by Fotbalguy


You don't have to define the terms for me...... I know them...... I am still waiting for an example where communism worked and actualy helped a country...... Maybe in Utopia although I would say that is more of a socialist society.
While communism seems like a right choice by your definition, it will never work and it never did; it's complete crap. There will always be those people who will strive to achieve more than others ie. the wealthy, ending up stealing or using trickery and failing the system.

OK......i see your point!

 

[ytwoaone]

In the long run communism hasn't helped a country, infact extreme governments bring limited benefits that are erased by another factor (e.g. war, persecution, stagant economies)

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by ytwoaone
In the long run communism hasn't helped a country, infact extreme governments bring limited benefits that are erased by another factor (e.g. war, persecution, stagant economies)

One word: Cuba.

 

[ytwoaone]

Cuba sold tons of sugar to the USA, and had casinos and American tourists, they were bringing in the cash big time before Castro ruined everything and nearly caused WW3

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by ytwoaone
Cuba sold tons of sugar to the USA, and had casinos and American tourists, they were bringing in the cash big time before Castro ruined everything and nearly caused WW3

Castro, Krushchev AND Kennedy ALL nearly caused WW3.

Cuba was *****d to the Americans before Castro, and they have prospered for 40 odd years with him and communism at the helm.

 

[ytwoaone]

prospered? might be more the case of rich cubans driven into exile, and prices put really low. The poor in any commy country has successfully been able to meet ends. It could be a case of capitalism being allowed to partially exist like in China.

communism doesn't work, either people suffer or capitalism can't be eradicated.

 

[INFESTA]

Originally posted by ytwoaone
Cuba sold tons of sugar to the USA, and had casinos and American tourists, they were bringing in the cash big time before Castro ruined everything and nearly caused WW3

I don't want to get into a discussion with ytwoaone, because he has showed me in the past that he can't bare others' opinions without insulting.

However, I'll point out the obvious:
-Cuba before Castro was a mere USA tourism resort, a casino outside the US.
-Cuba with Castro has survived USA's economical embargo.
-Cuba is a good place to live (as I was told by ALL of the cubans I met throughout my life).
-Cuba has one of the best medical systems in the world. They even lead medical research in some areas.
-Castro is somewhat of a dictator, since he doesn't tolerate dissonant opinions, nor accepts the departure of those who are unhappy with Cuba's lifestyle.

Cuban communism has positive and negative aspects. All in all, I think they are better off than some capitalist countries I know of, but I couldn't live without freedom of speech.
However, the problem with our western civilization s that we're allowed to speak but no one listens.

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by ytwoaone
prospered? might be more the case of rich cubans driven into exile, and prices put really low. The poor in any commy country has successfully been able to meet ends. It could be a case of capitalism being allowed to partially exist like in China.

communism doesn't work, either people suffer or capitalism can't be eradicated.

Yup, Cuba being communist has allowed it to retain its own independence and sovereignty, with the almighty US still hitting it with embargoes.

Since 1823, and the introduction of the Monroe Doctrine, the US has been looking to exert its sphere of influence into Latin and South America. Cuba's communism has allowed it to stay relatively free of such influence.

 

[Ubik Valis]

Originally posted by INFESTA

Cuban communism has positive and negative aspects. All in all, I think they are better off than some capitalist countries I know of, but I couldn't live without freedom of speech.
However, the problem with our western civilization s that we're allowed to speak but no one listens.

Exactly.....just like the democratic systems in the west have their good and bad sides.....

 

[Baby_pie]

I don't believe that communism is not a disease.
I think that communism is good in theory.. and maybe only in theory. Though it has been a disaster in many countries. the idea of a perfect and equal society is def not wrong. The most common mistake made by communist countries (that usually leads to a lot of cruelty and suffering to the people) is the vacum of power that could take place. Communism in theory states that power should all be equal and that in the end people should evolve so that there would be no need for a goverment.

We should not sterotype the communist countries that made a mistake and are now paying for it, instead we should think of the fault of the goverments that we now live in and try to improve it. Communism is not suffering... it began as a compassion for all that were not equal.

 

[maddog1983]

communism has been successfull before but just not for prolonged periods .... Hitlers dictatorship was very successfull early until he decided to descriminate against those who were ruining germany which were Gays and ***s and Black people. But it got Germany out of the depression they were in ..... thus does it count as a successfull government?

I think that the guy who was saying how communism sucks and he had lived under it had a very valid point ... Hermolt, Stevie B we can do all the studies we want to figure out a good thing about something percieved as a bad thing , but in the end its only the real life trauma that people have suffered that shows us why it is a crap way of governing

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by maddog1983
communism has been successfull before but just not for prolonged periods .... Hitlers dictatorship was very successfull early until he decided to descriminate against those who were ruining germany which were Gays and ***s and Black people. But it got Germany out of the depression they were in ..... thus does it count as a successfull government?

I think that the guy who was saying how communism sucks and he had lived under it had a very valid point ... Hermolt, Stevie B we can do all the studies we want to figure out a good thing about something percieved as a bad thing , but in the end its only the real life trauma that people have suffered that shows us why it is a crap way of governing

I think that Hitler's Nazi party were more Socialist...correct me if I'm wrong..

Actually, the hyper inflation which was brought in during the Weimar republic was solved by the new currency, I can't remember its name. In about 1925 I think that was, before Hitler took power.

And yeh I agree that living under it does much more than actually studying, finding good and bad points. That said, it cannot be viewed as a "disease". How 1950s is that?

 

[maddog1983]

yeah true that is pretty 50s , i remember studying history a few years back and talking of the Red peril and yellow peril and all those slogans about the dominoe theory .

true about hitler was more oscialist but communism only has one dictator and the people live under the rules set by that person ... even though hitler had advisers most of them were done away with when they disagreed with him or questioned him .. so thus he was in complete control

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by maddog1983
yeah true that is pretty 50s , i remember studying history a few years back and talking of the Red peril and yellow peril and all those slogans about the dominoe theory .

true about hitler was more oscialist but communism only has one dictator and the people live under the rules set by that person ... even though hitler had advisers most of them were done away with when they disagreed with him or questioned him .. so thus he was in complete control

Isn't that facism?

 

[maddog1983]

its all the same really isnt it i havent studied history since 2000 so i am a bit rusty unlike you young go-getters doing their HSC

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by maddog1983
its all the same really isnt it i havent studied history since 2000 so i am a bit rusty unlike you young go-getters doing their HSC

rofl

It's VCE here mate.

Do you know anything about the Ancien Regime in France, pre-1789?

Or perhaps a comparative essay between the Cuban missile crisis and the GUlf War??

 

[ytwoaone]

Originally posted by hermolt


I think that Hitler's Nazi party were more Socialist...correct me if I'm wrong..

National Socialist, based on an extreme form of fascism, but had 'socialist' made part of the nazi party name to con the poor into believeing that they stood for the needs of the workers, and to some extent they actually lived up to some of their promises (they are the only extreme right wing party to have been elected, although they used a few dirty tricks along the way, but so did Nixon, so it should be still view has the nazi's having been voted into power)

 

[hermolt]

Originally posted by ytwoaone




National Socialist, based on an extreme form of fascism, but had 'socialist' made part of the nazi party name to con the poor into believeing that they stood for the needs of the workers, and to some extent they actually lived up to some of their promises (they are the only extreme right wing party to have been elected, although they used a few dirty tricks along the way, but so did Nixon, so it should be still view has the nazi's having been voted into power)

Yah I will agree w/you there.. A form of fascism dressed up as the NSDAP..(or is it NDSAP f*ck I can't remember)..

 

[ytwoaone]

Originally posted by Baby_pie
I don't believe that communism is not a disease.
I think that communism is good in theory.. and maybe only in theory. Though it has been a disaster in many countries. the idea of a perfect and equal society is def not wrong. The most common mistake made by communist countries (that usually leads to a lot of cruelty and suffering to the people) is the vacum of power that could take place. Communism in theory states that power should all be equal and that in the end people should evolve so that there would be no need for a goverment.

We should not sterotype the communist countries that made a mistake and are now paying for it, instead we should think of the fault of the goverments that we now live in and try to improve it. Communism is not suffering... it began as a compassion for all that were not equal.

In theory only, in practice it can't work.

Power can't be equal, someone has to lead the country, otherwise there would be chaos and anarchy. Virtually most commy leaders have made themselves into socialist heros and gave people 'equality' and appear as such but behind closed doors they lead corrupt lives and live in luxury and live several classes above the rest, practising against the very thing they preach against.

Infact some of these leaders are more like fascists than commies, such as Stalin and Caucescu,and others are just plain evil, like Pol Pot and that Albanian git who banned religion totally and persecuted followers of religion.


Fascism and communism are interlinked, the major difference being who they persecute, fascists persecute 'inferior' races, while commies persecute the intelligent and religious people.