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adedawson;2681716 said:
Am with you on some of your points there but look, the fact is Berbatov is a 30mil striker. You dont ask for assists from a 30mil striker therefore if he finishes a season with more assists than gols with both being under 20, then it hasnt been a good season by any means.If you told me his position this season was that of an attacking midfielder I would say he was just OK. Berbatov was brought to score gols and he hasn't,simple.
I agree about Tevez. In all they are asking us to pay in between 25-30mil on top of the 10mil we already paid,40mil for him is ludicrous. I would not pay that money for him ,especially to some shadey businessmen. Let him go to City.
Like "Help"'s article we should concentrate on keepin Ronaldo even if he is playing more for himself than anything else. He is driving us forward in the process.
O yeah we defiantly paid over the odds for him by a big margin. But that's what happens when we buy players... there's one price for united then one for everyone else. This is also the result of being a wealthy club, buying a hyped player and rushing before close of transfer period when desperate to boost our strike force.
Paying over the odd's is only going to get worse as we come more successful, victims of our own success. Berbs price was also a result of winning the champions league. Popularity and success rising prices for us. Not to mention the strike problems left for spurs losing there star just before window close.
We could also talk about the economy, inflation, billionaire owners and general inflated prices... 30 mils not so bad when you look at the kind of money being thrown around at the moment. Times are changing and prices are going up fast.
He's still a great player though, silky skills, play making and generally offering something different. Something I feel no other player in the premiership does and I'd have him over Tevez for the other reasons mentioned in my last post. With any luck he will improve next season. We would be a worse team without him.
adedawson;2681716 said:
Wikipedia says he has 9 goals not 14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbatov
9 goals for a 30 mil striker is pathetic.
14 goals this 'season' i.e. all competition (9 in prem). Not to mention he normally score's around 23+ goals. He's got a lot more assists this season, but I think that's a factor of joining a team with many goal scorers i.e Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and co.
Its a team which isn't built around him banging in goals, a team that already had gelling strike partnership.
Henry is a good example. A player who on average scores over 30+ goals dropped down to 19 in his first season with a new club that had ron, messi, eto and co. Second season he's climbing back up at 26 as he gets to know team. now think, berbs no henry and that we paid over the odds... he's doing ok. I'd expect improvement and if not we can cross that bridge then.
Its a team which isn't built around him banging in goals, a team that already had gelling strike partnership.
Henry is a good example. A player who on average scores over 30+ goals dropped down to 19 in his first season with a new club that had ron, messi, eto and co. Second season he's climbing back up at 26 as he gets to know team. now think, berbs no henry and that we paid over the odds... he's doing ok. I'd expect improvement and if not we can cross that bridge then.
its why I put a bit later adedawson;2681897 said:
Everyone else is talking about the league why are you insisting on mentioning the 14 over all. You usually assess their performance in the league first and foremost. What you are doing is usually to get the best sounding stat for the player.
Normally he does not score "23+ goals". He has never scored more than 15 EPL gols.
Also his lack of goals have nothing to do with him joining a team with scorers already in it, because as far as I know Berbatov,until he was found out, had a starting berth well and truly reserved. So its not to say he had to fight for mins with anybody else.
adedawson;2681897 said:
If it wasnt his purpose to bang in the goals why was he bought and more importantly for 30mil?? Was he brought in to asisst?? Is that what you ask from 30mil striker these days?? If there was already a gelling striking partnership then that proves my point that he wasnt needed. We do need a striker like RVN was but Berbatov is not that man, which was the purpose of his acquisition in the 1st place.
Lastly dont compare him with Henry either who moved to a completely different country and had to learn a new language in the process. Yet even he in 30LL games still scored 12 gols, which is more than Berbatov but he cost much less.
Whatever is said Berbatov has been a flop this season.
oook. I don't think you read all my posts or read them completely wrong. But I'll try to explain without sounding to argumentative.andremc11;2681957 said:
This whole topic started with you declaring bad news that berb was staying. There after one person stated the EPL stats, quickly followed by the same person stating the seasonal stats which I have then gone onto talk about. Comparing Tevez and Berb and how Berb is the better Player.
andremc11;2681957 said:
I see when were talking about how well Ronaldo did last season scoring 42 goals or how many consecutive clean sheets VDS had in all competitions its ok etc. But when we don't like a player we only include the stat's of the Prem?
In which world do you live in that goals, success and performance are only measured in the Prem. Have we not just been talking about winning a treble or a quad half the season. You don't get that from performances just in the Prem
I think your the one trying to pick the worst stats due to disliking a player.
andremc11;2681957 said:
we can ignore this entire part if were talking about all the games he's played and contributed to the team the entire season instead of the just the bits you like.
andremc11;2681957 said:
As stated at the beginning you either didn't read or miss read. I stated that we paid hugely over the odds for him. This is mainly due to the rushed buy at the End of the season along with a bunch of other factors like people putting prices up for united, inflated price, billionaire owners and us just winning the champions league.
I also stated how were in need of a RVN, torres, Villa and Anelka's. If Tevez goes and we get an all out striker we will have a perfect blend of players. Berbs never been a big goal scorer as you and I have both been talking about.
andremc11;2681957 said:
Your completely missing the point. I could of used a number of examples I just used Barca as the example since we had one of there fans in the conversation. The point was when any player joins a new team he tends to player under his usual odds. Not always the case but certainly in case of berb especially at his age.
Lastly if you want to ignore what I've said about stats from all games, tevez has scored 5 epl goals. If we have to get rid of one in favour of an all out goal scorer Berbs defiantly the choice I'd make. For more reasons then just that, I don't feel like repeating myself.
andremc11;2681957 said:
He hasn't been a flop but I'd expect to see more from him. With Rooney Berb and us buying one other out and out striker we will do great. Maybe one of our juniors could step up?
perhaps a PM is in order for this conversation, we dont want to annoy everyone with our garbage.
**Edit**
In fact re-read this post. Then change the stats of the players for ones you like.... its still makes sense. Berb is still the better option for the team.
adedawson;2682020 said:
This whole topic started with you declaring bad news that berb was staying. There after one person stated the EPL stats, quickly followed by the same person stating the seasonal stats which I have then gone onto talk about. Comparing Tevez and Berb and how Berb is the better Player.
I see when were talking about how well Ronaldo did last season scoring 42 goals or how many consecutive clean sheets VDS had in all competitions its ok etc. But when we don't like a player we only include the stat's of the Prem?
In which world do you live in that goals, success and performance are only measured in the Prem. Have we not just been talking about winning a treble or a quad half the season. You don't get that from performances just in the Prem
I think your the one trying to pick the worst stats due to disliking a player.
we can ignore this entire part if were talking about all the games he's played and contributed to the team the entire season instead of the just the bits you like.
As stated at the beginning you either didn't read or miss read. I stated that we paid hugely over the odds for him. This is mainly due to the rushed buy at the End of the season along with a bunch of other factors like people putting prices up for united, inflated price, billionaire owners and us just winning the champions league.
I also stated how were in need of a RVN, torres, Villa and Anelka's. If Tevez goes and we get an all out striker we will have a perfect blend of players. Berbs never been a big goal scorer as you and I have both been talking about.
Your completely missing the point. I could of used a number of examples I just used Barca as the example since we had one of there fans in the conversation. The point was when any player joins a new team he tends to player under his usual odds. Not always the case but certainly in case of berb especially at his age.
Lastly if you want to ignore what I've said about stats from all games, tevez has scored 5 epl goals. If we have to get rid of one in favour of an all out goal scorer Berbs defiantly the choice I'd make. For more reasons then just that, I don't feel like repeating myself.
He hasn't been a flop but I'd expect to see more from him. With Rooney Berb and us buying one other out and out striker we will do great. Maybe one of our juniors could step up?
perhaps a PM is in order for this conversation, we dont want to annoy everyone with our garbage.
**Edit**
In fact re-read this post. Then change the stats of the players for ones you like.... its still makes sense. Berb is still the better option for the team.
You havent disproven any of my points so I am finished with this issue. To transfers......Fergie is really quiet in response to Perez's Ronaldo talk. How powerful is this man?
andremc11;2682141 said:
Yeah like I said earlier. It's a little bit to quiet for my liking. Maybe because they're on holidays or something. This time last year from the start we said no, but this time, there have been a few reports about Ronnie and no response from our side.....
Fergie is on holiday, you know he won't react to speculation. MUTV however have mentioned several Spanish news outlets are reporting "negotiations are taking place for around £89M
For that money I think he should go, in fact I think it's high time we cut the disingenuous little sod loose - His lack of respect to United is a stain on the great number 7 shirt. Lets cash in, and buy a player who will appreciate being at Man Utd.
There is no player who can match Ronaldo individually, however even a less talented (flamboyant) individual slotting into the team will mean United will continue to function - perhaps more as a unit than with Ronaldo (see the first 10 mins in Rome)
My choice would be Ashley Young of Aston Villa, I think he'd be awesome for United, he knows the League and would slot right in. Also Valencia coming in would be good too, regardless. I would also get Glen Johnson at right back. Rafael still needs a bit of polish, and Gary's getting on.
I'll miss Ronaldo's skills, but I won't miss the diving, whining and crying - or his flirting with Real Madrid. United have lost greater players than him - and we've kept going.
United is bigger than any player. Even the almighty Ronaldo.
For that money I think he should go, in fact I think it's high time we cut the disingenuous little sod loose - His lack of respect to United is a stain on the great number 7 shirt. Lets cash in, and buy a player who will appreciate being at Man Utd.
There is no player who can match Ronaldo individually, however even a less talented (flamboyant) individual slotting into the team will mean United will continue to function - perhaps more as a unit than with Ronaldo (see the first 10 mins in Rome)
My choice would be Ashley Young of Aston Villa, I think he'd be awesome for United, he knows the League and would slot right in. Also Valencia coming in would be good too, regardless. I would also get Glen Johnson at right back. Rafael still needs a bit of polish, and Gary's getting on.
I'll miss Ronaldo's skills, but I won't miss the diving, whining and crying - or his flirting with Real Madrid. United have lost greater players than him - and we've kept going.
United is bigger than any player. Even the almighty Ronaldo.
thats what i thought... but i havent really seen him play much to object to there comments of 'no end product'.
he scored 8 goals this season and last... 14 assists last season. Guess the same sort of average as giggs.
Cant see us getting him though... it would be nice... i like his speed and chance's he creates.
he scored 8 goals this season and last... 14 assists last season. Guess the same sort of average as giggs.
Cant see us getting him though... it would be nice... i like his speed and chance's he creates.
80M Pounds for ronaldo!!!
SAF and David Gill You ledgends!!
Pitty he lied about it on camera but have to say it was time for him to go no soar grapes but great deal for us.
Players who could come in
Auergo
Benezma
Valencia
Silva
Young
Mountino
Glen johnson
Steven Gerrard??
Huntelaar
Ribery
God this is fun i prob left out loads of great players haha
Great to have the deal done so early so now we have all summer to get who we want
SAF and David Gill You ledgends!!
Pitty he lied about it on camera but have to say it was time for him to go no soar grapes but great deal for us.
Players who could come in
Auergo
Benezma
Valencia
Silva
Young
Mountino
Glen johnson
Steven Gerrard??
Huntelaar
Ribery
God this is fun i prob left out loads of great players haha
Great to have the deal done so early so now we have all summer to get who we want
D
Dipanjan
Guest
Superb deal. Virus is going then to Madrid.
With our current squad, guys such as Macheda, Welbeck, Gibson, Rafael, Fabio, Tosic, Ljajic, Evans, Petrucci and Possebon could all become players who develop to perhaps the same level as guys such as Giggs, Scholes and Neville, who they may replace.
I don't see the need to spend a ridiculous amount of money on someone like Kaka, Ribery, Messi, Huntelaar, Benzema or David Villa, when they may in fact play below the level expected of them.
I also think that by developing players, they go through the early stages of their career learning how United play, and they can tweak their playing style accordingly. When you buy a star player, you buy their playing style and as they are that bit older, it's harder for them to adjust their game to what is best for United.
From the above list, I'd for for Glen Johnson, Benzema/Huntelaar and Silva, if I have to. If we really have to.
With our current squad, guys such as Macheda, Welbeck, Gibson, Rafael, Fabio, Tosic, Ljajic, Evans, Petrucci and Possebon could all become players who develop to perhaps the same level as guys such as Giggs, Scholes and Neville, who they may replace.
I don't see the need to spend a ridiculous amount of money on someone like Kaka, Ribery, Messi, Huntelaar, Benzema or David Villa, when they may in fact play below the level expected of them.
I also think that by developing players, they go through the early stages of their career learning how United play, and they can tweak their playing style accordingly. When you buy a star player, you buy their playing style and as they are that bit older, it's harder for them to adjust their game to what is best for United.
From the above list, I'd for for Glen Johnson, Benzema/Huntelaar and Silva, if I have to. If we really have to.
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