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World Cup Draw [P+R]

Xifio

The Von Trapps
@adedawson:

the videos you posted were of commentators going crazy, not of pundits analyzing the game ... and I don't understand Chinese or Arabic, so I don't know what they were saying, only that they were excited ...

but anyway, what makes English a unique case has to do with the connectivity of the speakers of the language to the country where the language originates from ... this is best understood when comparing it to other languages ...

French
other than France, the francophone countries include Canada, a few countries in west and central Africa, a few islands off the east coast of the African continent, as well as French Guyana and Haiti ... apart from Canada (and of course France), the Francophone countries are economically poor ... a number of people from these countries seek to emigrate out of their country, and seek opportunities in the developed world to accrue wealth ... but they speak French ... so which country can they emigrate to that is nearby, and speaks French? France! the connection that the poorer Francophone countries have with France is very strong because of the emigration/immigration ... either the people want to move to France, or they already have family there ... so France is like a second country to them, and they thus have a vested interest in the prosperity of France, and/or constantly seek to associate themselves with France ...

Spanish
Latin America is where Spanish is spoken outside of Spain ... there are no major regions in other continents where Spanish is dominant ... there is certainly emigration of people from Latin America to Spain, but they have other options closer at hand, most notably the USA and Canada ... so the connection that Latin America feels to Spain is not really comparable to the connection that francophone countries in Africa feel to France ...

Other Languages
other colonial languages outside of English, French, and Spanish are not as widespread ... Portuguese is the only other colonial language I can think of that is spoken on more than two continents outside of Europe (Brazil from South America; Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde and one of the Guineas from Africa) ... and the affinity and cross-migration is strong within that small group ...

English
then we come to English ... the anglophone world spans several continents, and includes several economic powers ... from USA and Canada, through the British Isles, through large portions of Africa, and Asia, all the way to Australia and New Zealand ... this is a diverse group, and that is merely looking at the countries where English is an official language ... there are several other countries where English is commonplace as the second language, especially amongst the educated ... this is where the big difference is between English and the other languages ... English penetrates the most number of countries, and so unlike French and Portuguese, it does not imply a strong affinity to the language's country of origin ...


How all this affects commentary

the global French commentary feed has its main audience in francophone Africa ... but French commentators from France are very aware of the francophone audience from Africa who would be listening to them ... so if there is a match between France and a francophone nation from Africa, like happened with Senegal in 2002, they would ensure coverage of both sides of the story ...

Spanish-speaking Latin American countries are mad about football, and so for an event like the World Cup, they have local commentators covering the match ... unlike for the English language, there is no global Spanish language commentary feed because each of the big countries has its own coverage, while the smaller nations would depend on TV stations from bigger neighbouring nations for the commentary feed ... they do not need a global commentary feed with Spanish commentators from Spain ...

with Portuguese, Brazil are autonomous when it comes to coverage, as are Portugal; Angola, Mozambique, and Cape Verde depend on one of the two, which is fine because they would be supporting both nations ...

the English language, though, is different ... commentary as a profession is not lucrative enough outside of England to attract the top-level eloquent orators who are cognizant of the game; not when compared to how good the English commentators sound ... the guys who are try (in the MLS, in the A-League, in the PSL (South Africa), in the I-League (India), etc.) confirm that fact ... so the global English language feed is crucial ...

the global English commentary feed is the English language commentary feed for the English language coverage OUTSIDE of England ... English commentators from England (like Martin Tyler) are hired by one or two of the big name stations OUTSIDE England, and the commentary feed is sold to other stations outside of England (such as Supersport, who have the coverage rights for all of anglophone Africa) ... no subsidies or taxpayer money, etc. from the UK govt is involved because these are companies outside of the UK ... so is it unreasonable for me to expect the English commentators to not try to spin things towards English football and the England national team when they are working during the tournament for non-English companies, being paid by non-Englishmen, and commentating for the anglophone world outside of England (from USA, to Canada, to Africa, to Asia, to Oceania) who are not supporting England?
 

adedawson

Senior Squad
Xifio;2778938 said:
@adedawson:

the videos you posted were of commentators going crazy, not of pundits analyzing the game ... and I don't understand Chinese or Arabic, so I don't know what they were saying, only that they were excited ...

but anyway, what makes English a unique case has to do with the connectivity of the speakers of the language to the country where the language originates from ... this is best understood when comparing it to other languages ...

French
other than France, the francophone countries include Canada, a few countries in west and central Africa, a few islands off the east coast of the African continent, as well as French Guyana and Haiti ... apart from Canada (and of course France), the Francophone countries are economically poor ... a number of people from these countries seek to emigrate out of their country, and seek opportunities in the developed world to accrue wealth ... but they speak French ... so which country can they emigrate to that is nearby, and speaks French? France! the connection that the poorer Francophone countries have with France is very strong because of the emigration/immigration ... either the people want to move to France, or they already have family there ... so France is like a second country to them, and they thus have a vested interest in the prosperity of France, and/or constantly seek to associate themselves with France ...

Spanish
Latin America is where Spanish is spoken outside of Spain ... there are no major regions in other continents where Spanish is dominant ... there is certainly emigration of people from Latin America to Spain, but they have other options closer at hand, most notably the USA and Canada ... so the connection that Latin America feels to Spain is not really comparable to the connection that francophone countries in Africa feel to France ...

Other Languages
other colonial languages outside of English, French, and Spanish are not as widespread ... Portuguese is the only other colonial language I can think of that is spoken on more than two continents outside of Europe (Brazil from South America; Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde and one of the Guineas from Africa) ... and the affinity and cross-migration is strong within that small group ...

English
then we come to English ... the anglophone world spans several continents, and includes several economic powers ... from USA and Canada, through the British Isles, through large portions of Africa, and Asia, all the way to Australia and New Zealand ... this is a diverse group, and that is merely looking at the countries where English is an official language ... there are several other countries where English is commonplace as the second language, especially amongst the educated ... this is where the big difference is between English and the other languages ... English penetrates the most number of countries, and so unlike French and Portuguese, it does not imply a strong affinity to the language's country of origin ...


How all this affects commentary

the global French commentary feed has its main audience in francophone Africa ... but French commentators from France are very aware of the francophone audience from Africa who would be listening to them ... so if there is a match between France and a francophone nation from Africa, like happened with Senegal in 2002, they would ensure coverage of both sides of the story ...

Spanish-speaking Latin American countries are mad about football, and so for an event like the World Cup, they have local commentators covering the match ... unlike for the English language, there is no global Spanish language commentary feed because each of the big countries has its own coverage, while the smaller nations would depend on TV stations from bigger neighbouring nations for the commentary feed ... they do not need a global commentary feed with Spanish commentators from Spain ...

with Portuguese, Brazil are autonomous when it comes to coverage, as are Portugal; Angola, Mozambique, and Cape Verde depend on one of the two, which is fine because they would be supporting both nations ...

the English language, though, is different ... commentary as a profession is not lucrative enough outside of England to attract the top-level eloquent orators who are cognizant of the game; not when compared to how good the English commentators sound ... the guys who are try (in the MLS, in the A-League, in the PSL (South Africa), in the I-League (India), etc.) confirm that fact ... so the global English language feed is crucial ...

the global English commentary feed is the English language commentary feed for the English language coverage OUTSIDE of England ... English commentators from England (like Martin Tyler) are hired by one or two of the big name stations OUTSIDE England, and the commentary feed is sold to other stations outside of England (such as Supersport, who have the coverage rights for all of anglophone Africa) ... no subsidies or taxpayer money, etc. from the UK govt is involved because these are companies outside of the UK ... so is it unreasonable for me to expect the English commentators to not try to spin things towards English football and the England national team when they are working during the tournament for non-English companies, being paid by non-Englishmen, and commentating for the anglophone world outside of England (from USA, to Canada, to Africa, to Asia, to Oceania) who are not supporting England?

Dear god there's just no stopping you...No wonder pede stopped talking to you. I think he's right, you just some big British Hater.

You keep changing what your saying. First it has nothing to do with the bbc, then its irrelevant because you merely don't like the bias, and I want to see it unbiased.

Now you have gone back to the language which we have already said is irrelevant. But if you want to get back onto that, apparently the 420+ million Spanish, 213+ million Portuguese and 130+ million French shouldn't have the same rules applied to them because there "small" and insignificant?

But I'll stop there because non of it matters since your main gripe...

the global English commentary feed is the English language commentary feed for the English language coverage OUTSIDE of England ... English commentators from England (like Martin Tyler) are hired by one or two of the big name stations OUTSIDE England, and the commentary feed is sold to other stations outside of England (such as Supersport, who have the coverage rights for all of anglophone Africa) ... no subsidies or taxpayer money, etc. from the UK govt is involved because these are companies outside of the UK ... so is it unreasonable for me to expect the English commentators to not try to spin things towards English football and the England national team when they are working during the tournament for non-English companies, being paid by non-Englishmen, and commentating for the anglophone world outside of England (from USA, to Canada, to Africa, to Asia, to Oceania) who are not supporting England?

Have we not just done this to death. About 3-4 times now. lets simplify this for you. Commentary cannot be unbiased when funded by mega profit making organisations and the state. Its as simple as that and happens world wide.

If you think for one second that people wont name drop when working for 3rd parties your deluded to the way the world works.

Now I'll humour you for one second. Lets remember the world isn't made of pink bubble gum, sparkly bits and care bears over the rainbow. Mr X commentator contracted for working months and months throughout the year by Y mega corporation then gets employed by Z. Not only will he have a commentating style employee Z is aware off but Mr X will be thinking of his next mega contract with mega corporation Y. What does that equal... Bias, Bias, Bias. Which happens everywhere

PM me if you want to continue this riveting conversation. Not that I wish to see it continue, you simply see no reason. Apparently English are the bane of bias and are the kings of it world over.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
adedawson;2779031 said:
Dear god there's just no stopping you...No wonder pede stopped talking to you. I think he's right, you just some big British Hater.

You keep changing what your saying. First it has nothing to do with the bbc, then its irrelevant because you merely don't like the bias, and I want to see it unbiased.

Now you have gone back to the language which we have already said is irrelevant. But if you want to get back onto that, apparently the 420+ million Spanish, 213+ million Portuguese and 130+ million French shouldn't have the same rules applied to them because there "small" and insignificant?

But I'll stop there because non of it matters since your main gripe...



Have we not just done this to death. About 3-4 times now. lets simplify this for you. Commentary cannot be unbiased when funded by mega profit making organisations and the state. Its as simple as that and happens world wide.

If you think for one second that people wont name drop when working for 3rd parties your deluded to the way the world works.

Now I'll humour you for one second. Lets remember the world isn't made of pink bubble gum, sparkly bits and care bears over the rainbow. Mr X commentator contracted for working months and months throughout the year by Y mega corporation then gets employed by Z. Not only will he have a commentating style employee Z is aware off but Mr X will be thinking of his next mega contract with mega corporation Y. What does that equal... Bias, Bias, Bias. Which happens everywhere

PM me if you want to continue this riveting conversation. Not that I wish to see it continue, you simply see no reason. Apparently English are the bane of bias and are the kings of it world over.
PM it is, then ...
 

Yossarian

Fan Favourite
how come Forehead Boy (Capello) has got such an excellent command of the English language?


Seriously. I'm always in total awe of these players and coaches who are capable of picking up a new tongue in just 6-12mons and communicating in it with such great proficiency and confidence.

A dude like Ronaldinho....he juggles 3-4 languages with impressive fluency, I believe.
 

kp41

Fan Favourite
Yossarian;2786699 said:
how come Forehead Boy (Capello) has got such an excellent command of the English language?


Seriously. I'm always in total awe of these players and coaches who are capable of picking up a new tongue in just 6-12mons and communicating in it with such great proficiency and confidence.

A dude like Ronaldinho....he juggles 3-4 languages with impressive fluency, I believe.

when you spend 3 or 4 hours at clubs every night, you'll learn almost every language.:bob:
 

kp41

Fan Favourite
Arnau;2786749 said:
Ronaldinho speech 5 languages: Portuguese, French, Spanish, Catalan and Italian.

when you play 2 or 3 years at each country, its obvious that you will learn that language especially for a social guy like Ronaldinho. But you can't expect a player like Puyol, Giggs or Maldini to speak 5 languages.

Most of the refs can speak multiple language as well.
 

kp41

Fan Favourite
Arnau;2786757 said:
Cruyff can't speak spanish or catalan and he's living there sinze 1975.

he is legend in all angles. JUST HOOOOOOOOW?

I think buti can speak catalan right now.
 

Bobby

The Legend
Yossarian;2786699 said:
how come Forehead Boy (Capello) has got such an excellent command of the English language?


Seriously. I'm always in total awe of these players and coaches who are capable of picking up a new tongue in just 6-12mons and communicating in it with such great proficiency and confidence.

A dude like Ronaldinho....he juggles 3-4 languages with impressive fluency, I believe.

As useless as he is on the field, I think Phillipe Senderos speaks seven. He's like 24, incredibly impressive.
 


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