Will these things ever change?

[kochung]

Actually did you see the yellow icon of the left corner of the screen?

 

[Keemo]

No...there was no advantage call, nor was one possible becuase my forward didnt even get to the ball before he was knocked to the ground. It was a blatent red card or at the very least it should have been a yellow card AND a penalty kick ofcourse...I didnt get either one.

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Gascoigne USA
No offense mate, but I know for a fact it works in almost anysituation,

no offence taken, mate. as i said, i stand corrected. you are right, it does work. and if you pull it off correctly it adds a whole new level of realism

it's funny... i have been playing this game for more than 3 years now... starting with ISSPE1... and i have reached a point where i can about compete on master league level 4... but there is still stuff i don't know and that i need to excercise...

great game indeed. minus some of the quirks discussed here...

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Keemo
No...there was no advantage call, nor was one possible becuase my forward didnt even get to the ball before he was knocked to the ground. It was a blatent red card or at the very least it should have been a yellow card AND a penalty kick ofcourse...I didnt get either one.

the CPU is felling my players left and right and goes away with it all the time. the other way around every pansy push or tackle is immediately called and more often than not red carded. it's so annyoing. i have never seen a game that is so blatantly biased towards the CPU than any of the PES series.

anyone figured out which ref is the "softest" one (you can, under circumstances, change them in the ingame settings menu)

 

[PhiLLer]

The keepers may not be superman but I consider that a good thing. No goalie can keep out every ball. The PES goalies are the most realistic in any game.

 

[mohawk]

I personally think the keepers in the PES3 demo still needs work....although not as bad as Fifa - too many shots hit near the centre of the goalposts slightly away from the keeper goes in - in real life these would be knocked away by any decent keeper.

I may be wrong but thats my opinion.

 

[ogsimon]

Ok theres a second person who agrees, you must see it gascoigne, if u strike the ball very near the goalie it goes in a lot of the time, although they do make good saves at times, i still think they miss the easy ones.

PS Seamen is the worst goalie on this game by far, he fumbles the ball rolls out to the attackers, and is poor from in swinging crosses, if u have multiplayer always push the goalie out of the goal and then you can shoot directly from a corner

 

[Andy L]

There are some valid points being made in this thread (especially by simakperrce), it's just a shame that some people can't seem to take any criticism whatsoever of PES, and offer up half-arsed excuses to defend it. (Bear in mind that I'm not comparing it to any other footy game - the other games don't even count for me, I know PES/WE is the best out there.)

The referees are pretty poor, although they don't seem quite as bad as in PES2/WE6FE. But judging from some of the decisions they give, you'd think Nokami were trying to turn football into a non-contact sport... it's quite possible to slide in and knock the ball away without the opposition player even stumbling, never mind going down, and still have a free kick given against you. You can get a yellow card just for doing a block tackle where you might have brushed against a player. Of course, none of this applies to the CPU team, who can get away with just about anything.

As for the goalies... I score goals from shots which I would have expected the keeper to save. If I watch the replay, a lot of the time, it's because the goalie has dived 'on the spot', but not extended his reach towards the ball. Having said that, I like the way they can mess up crosses sometimes.

Another annoying thing is when I play a through-pass, the player will sometimes run alongside the ball instead of controlling it, making it easy for a defender to intercept and clear. Admittedly, I've not tried using R1+R2 with this, but it's a problem that's been in the game since ISS PE2 (if not longer). Players still wait around for a pass too much, and if you try to move them, it's like they're stuck in treacle.

The 180 degree turn is so cheap... I admit that I sometimes use it to get a goal, but it looks terrible and I don't derive any satisfaction from using it. It's ridiculous how you can have three or four defenders falling for it at the same time.

Penalties aren't great either - I don't think you have enough control over them. If you press to shoot in a direction, it's pot luck whether the ball will hit the woodwork or go in... and this is with any player, even the best strikers. It's a shame, because I think the in-game shooting is really intuitive. Penalties just feel like a leftover from the PS1 games.

 

[simakperrce]

here is a third person, even though i really acknowledge gascoigne's expertise... after all, he just opened up new game playing depths for me (not exactly a rookie PES player)

i too think coverage of the short post is at times unrealistic.

and in general, as i said before, i'd wish there'd be more control of the goal keeper.. in Club Football, for example (otherwise not to compare) you press triangle and the keeper puts the ball on the ground... you then can take him outside the box.. in PES once he is holding the ball you either have to throw or kick it, and neither is subject to any analog (powerbar) control...(unless gascoigne has a secret button combo for that one as well

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Andy L
There are some valid points being made in this thread (especially by simakperrce), it's just a shame that some people can't seem to take any criticism whatsoever of PES, and offer up half-arsed excuses to defend it.

well, to be fair gascoigne's comments weren't half arsed excuses, but pretty much spot on comments. he also wasn't inflammatory at all but very objective.

when posting initially i expected worse. for some people criticizing PES is like s.hitting on a picture of the pope. you're just not doing that unless you are a FIFA camper.

as for the penalties: this is something i forgot to mention and i am totally with you there. penalty shootouts are incredibly scripted. one can almost put one's money on when they will go far or somewhere, where you didn't hold the stick at. a typical PS goes like: CPU and you hit the first 3 ones. CPU blows one. you hit one. CPU hits. now the decisive 5th shot. of course, you blow it. mostly, shots to the corners go wide, or shots down the middle hit the crossbar. needless to say, i have never won a PS... but i am sure i'll be told i need to excercise more, it's all so free and analog...

 

[monkee]

I've noticed the refs being lenient towards the cpu on many occasions but it adds to my games. Often when watching footy you get frustrated with the refs. I'm not saying it doesn't need work but it doesn't really bother me, except for one time.

I'd gone in for a slide challenge and had basically stopped, the cpu had turned away then turned back into me and then fell over. It was the lamest of challenges and he sends my player off for it. Moments later the cpu goes in hard on my player, misses the ball completely and nothing, not even a fk!

Most of the time I get sent off though is for reckless challenges.

The goalkeepers can be a bit suss on some shots that just about go by them. I've noticed they are solid on them mostly though.

Seaman is the worst in the game, although Robinson can be a bit of a ploncker too. But I was trailing 2-0 to Arsenal and, thanks in part to Seaman, I made my comeback of the month to win 5-2. Seaman's helping hand came on a couple of goals but mainly the equaliser when a weak shot from Martins came in from the left. Seaman fell on his arse and popped the ball up in the air with his boot right onto the head of Baggio who was standing in front of the goal. Easy 2-2.

As far as it concerns me though it adds to the realism. It can be frustrating but error is part of the game and the errors that are in the game add something to how it plays for me. I don't think I'd like it as much if the refs were 100% consistent and their calls were predictable, although it would help if they were biased towards me at times.

 

[theCRO]

I don't find that the slightest bit annoying, keppers that let it go into their legs just boot it up anyways, so whats the pint of dropping it to feet? not an issue IMO.

Some criticisms I have is momentum, sometimes nothing goes right, especially in multiplayer.

Stray passes, some are unbelievable.

Shevchenko, the man is superhuman at times, gets past the best defense by outpacing, out turning and out dribbling the crap out of them.

first post corners, dangerous...

throw ins, hard to pull of, shouldn't be.

Referees...stuff me up sometimes, stuff the other team too though.

piss easy shots by that little wanker Inzaghi that Buffon cannot save, lazy fecker

there's a few more...but only minor minor issues (mind you, I never play against CPU, hardly. Topo manu mates, too many late nights with a multitap )

 

[Liternit]

Originally posted by Andy L
Another annoying thing is when I play a through-pass, the player will sometimes run alongside the ball instead of controlling it, making it easy for a defender to intercept and clear. Admittedly, I've not tried using R1+R2 with this, but it's a problem that's been in the game since ISS PE2 (if not longer). Players still wait around for a pass too much, and if you try to move them, it's like they're stuck in treacle.

The 180 degree turn is so cheap... I admit that I sometimes use it to get a goal, but it looks terrible and I don't derive any satisfaction from using it. It's ridiculous how you can have three or four defenders falling for it at the same time.

R1+R2 works, plus when you do it and reach the ball before the defender you usually get past them as well. And that works since god knows when, WE3?

Also 180° turn is kinda easy to make, but wingers do it all the time in football. The only thing I would like to see is that only players with high stats would be able to pull it of without losing controll of the ball. Like it happens with faking shots already, have you ever tried to fake a shot with a midfielder? sometimes he will lose possesion of the ball trying to do so, the same should apply to 180°

Also about the goalies, some goals do go in easy. But mostly in friendlys. Also you can´t spect much from Seaman his not rated high in PES3.

 

[Andy L]

Originally posted by Liternit
R1+R2 works, plus when you do it and reach the ball before the defender you usually get past them as well. And that works since god knows when, WE3?

Also 180° turn is kinda easy to make, but wingers do it all the time in football. The only thing I would like to see is that only players with high stats would be able to pull it of without losing controll of the ball. Like it happens with faking shots already, have you ever tried to fake a shot with a midfielder? sometimes he will lose possesion of the ball trying to do so, the same should apply to 180°

Also about the goalies, some goals do go in easy. But mostly in friendlys. Also you can´t spect much from Seaman his not rated high in PES3.

It's not just wingers who do the 180 degree turn in the game, it's everyone, from the Shifty*ble forward to the lumbering central defender. And it happens far too often as well. PES1 had the balance right - you couldn't wrongfoot an entire defence by using it.

There's a few things I forgot to mention before:

Handballs - all too often, if a player blasts the ball straight at an opposing player's arm, a free kick is given and you have no idea what it's for. On the flip side, I've had blatant handballs in the penalty area for which I haven't been given a penalty. The game has no concept of ball-to-hand, which is something that's hard enough to judge in real life, never mind program into a computer game. It's nice that it's in the game, but it's one of those things that really needs to be done properly, or it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Honestly, how often do you see handballs in real life, especially ones outside the box?

Ref calls - there should be some kind of indication as to what decision the ref has given. At the moment, there's no immediate way to tell. Short of actually adding the ref and linesmen on the pitch, maybe icons (like the one for advantage) could be used for offsides, handballs, penalties, etc. Imagine if a ref in a real life game ran around blowing up for offences, but refused to gave any indication of what he had blown up for...

 

[Liternit]

I never had the trouble of not knowing what the ref was blowing, adding icons would be silly. Just add the Ref and Linesman.

Also I don´t bother as much about their calls, they usually are very though or lenient and you just have to figure it out and play it according to that. I think the problem lies more when you play against the CPU, when playing against a friend if pretty good. Sometimes he will seem one sided and it pisses my mate off

But you have to fell how the ref is calling and be more or less agressive based on that. The only thing that bothers me is that sometimes a tackle that was clean gets called anyway.

But I did find out that you can get a lot of good tackles if you wait to tackle once the ball is not in contact with the foward whe he kicks its foward a bit to run, then you tackle.

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by Liternit
Also 180° turn is kinda easy to make, but wingers do it all the time in football.

i am not sure whether i agree. of course i've seen players go to the inside, but usually this doesn't involve the kind of mathematically perfect 180 degree flip that you have in PES.

and as andy pointed out in PES it's done indiscriminally and pretty much consistently across all teams and more or less independently from individual player stats. it does feel "scripted", robotic and in a way "unworthy" of the subtle brilliance the game offers in most other departments.

 

[Andy L]

Originally posted by Liternit
I never had the trouble of not knowing what the ref was blowing, adding icons would be silly. Just add the Ref and Linesman.

Konami have said the PS2 doesn't have enough CPU power to add the ref and linesmen, which is why I suggested icons.

But you have to fell how the ref is calling and be more or less agressive based on that. The only thing that bothers me is that sometimes a tackle that was clean gets called anyway.

But I did find out that you can get a lot of good tackles if you wait to tackle once the ball is not in contact with the foward whe he kicks its foward a bit to run, then you tackle.

I know that, I only slide tackle when I'm sure I'm going to make contact with the ball. The problem is, if you slide and get the ball, but the player happens to run into your outstretched leg after the ball has gone, you'll get a foul called against you.

I can't believe people keep defending the game when there are obvious flaws here. Not blindly praising the game doesn't make you a FIFA fan all of a sudden. Konami have got the hard part (simulating a realistic game of football) right - it's just these niggly flaws which spoil it a bit for me. They certainly don't 'add to the realism'.

 

[Liternit]

Andy L read the damn post, I agree with you. Why do you keep posting the same "oh they keep defending" BS, I pointed to you the obvious use of R1+R2 for through balls yet you take as if we are defending, and I do agree on some ref calls and 180° in crosses.

The only thing that bothers me is that sometimes a tackle that was clean gets called anyway.

 

[Andy L]

OK, fine. I just misread your posts as trying to justify the dodgy ref calls, etc. Apologies if I sounded like a broken record

 

[Liternit]