Why does nobody realise?

[PrimeEight]

Does anyone know if FIFA 2003 will be analogue based direction (like WC2002) or digital (like PES)?

I hope that in EA's quest to please PES fans doesn't result in scrapping the analogue capabilities of the PS2 for the 8 directions of movement of ISS. There is nothing I hate more about PES than the limitations placed on what you can do by the digital direction pad- FIFA 2002 and WC 2002 were amazing inovations in computer football because of the freedom you had when controlling your players.

Sport is an analogue business, and any attempt to digitise player movement is for the worse.

I know I'm in the minority when I support EA's last two instalments of FIFA, but I know that despite their flaws, the gameplay once the options have been customised (camera, game speed, power-up speed etc..) is beyong anything ISS has ever accomplished. Not only this, but also the fact that there is NO through ball button; you have to do it yourself- put the man on a run, then play the perfect ball BY YOURSELF. I can't stress how important that is to FIFA, and none of you so-called 'hardcore' football PES fans ever got the hang of that. FIFA went right above many heads- that isn't EA's fault.

Please let me know what your views are.
Cheers

 

[Jomi]

Re: Why does nobody realise?

Originally posted by PrimeEight

I know I'm in the minority when I support EA's last two instalments of FIFA, but I know that despite their flaws, the gameplay once the options have been customised (camera, game speed, power-up speed etc..) is beyong anything ISS has ever accomplished. Not only this, but also the fact that there is NO through ball button; you have to do it yourself- put the man on a run, then play the perfect ball BY YOURSELF. Please let me know what your views are.
Cheers [/B]

Hi PrimeEight, I totally agree with you.
I still don't understand why so many people are hating fifa2k2 and fifaWC. As you said, when you have the rights options settled
it feels like real football ! Because you can really control your passes and IMO that's what football is about.
I always play this game with slow speed,panoramic and Mike Bolzer's cameras , power up at level 3 and passes set "normal"
I also use the final gameplay from Nick Clubman and I have all the dramatic that I need.Just like in real.
I am waiting for the final version of fifa2k3 to see if you can customize the options the same ways.And i NEVER use the trough ball button when I play the demo.It's too arcade game !!

Cheers JM

 

[Liquid_Corpse]

Great points, both you guys.

One of the reason people are complaining about how unrealistic games are because they are playing it unrealistic. They allways pass the wingers on the side the camera is, allways use long cross-passes for random runs, they try to steal the ball from an idiot defender and then score on a lone keeper.

If you play realistic on the latest FIFA Games, WC 2002 and especially FIFA 2003 (maybe FIFA 2002 a little) the game will become more realistic.

With the right skills you can do anything on FIFA 2003 and WC 2002. Score close, score far away, even with the skilled precision score with the cross button. All it takes is the right equipment and the right skills and knowleage.

I'm not saying the FIFA-series is perfect, but it's more interesting to see the good aspects instead of the bad ones.

 

[nickclubman]

The xbox version uses Analogue control, so I don't see why the PS2 wouldn't.

The xbox version has very good control and realistic, the movement given to you is the most realistic of any football game.

Nick Clubman

 

[PrimeEight]

Yo

It's amazing someone else agrees. I thought I and a few others were alone.

A dying breed though

P8

 

[theCRO]

PAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....that's so idiotic it needs no reply.

 

[hchu]

Originally posted by theCRO
PAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....that's so idiotic it needs no reply.

I know... right~?

 

[The Kop Kid]

Re: Why does nobody realise?

Originally posted by PrimeEight
Does anyone know if FIFA 2003 will be analogue based direction (like WC2002) or digital (like PES)?

I hope that in EA's quest to please PES fans doesn't result in scrapping the analogue capabilities of the PS2 for the 8 directions of movement of ISS. There is nothing I hate more about PES than the limitations placed on what you can do by the digital direction pad- FIFA 2002 and WC 2002 were amazing inovations in computer football because of the freedom you had when controlling your players.

Sport is an analogue business, and any attempt to digitise player movement is for the worse.

I know I'm in the minority when I support EA's last two instalments of FIFA, but I know that despite their flaws, the gameplay once the options have been customised (camera, game speed, power-up speed etc..) is beyong anything ISS has ever accomplished. Not only this, but also the fact that there is NO through ball button; you have to do it yourself- put the man on a run, then play the perfect ball BY YOURSELF. I can't stress how important that is to FIFA, and none of you so-called 'hardcore' football PES fans ever got the hang of that. FIFA went right above many heads- that isn't EA's fault.

Please let me know what your views are.
Cheers

I agree with you that the PES digital passing and dribbling model needs work, but the statement that you made about people who play PES not being able to get to grips with FIFA's passing model are completely unfounded. I personally play both FIFA and PES, and yes, I was quite able to use the fifa controls in FIFA2002. Also FIFA2003 has returned to a through ball button which begs the question: If the 2002 passing system was so damn good, then why dump it for 2003?
To say that the gameplay in the previous istallments is beyond anything that ISS ( I take it you mean PES) has ever accomplished is perhaps also a little wide of the mark. The problem with FIFA games in the past is that the total analogue freedom has been countered by the scripted nature of the game. I mean, whats the point in being able to pass the ball anywhere If certain moves and build-ups work 100% of the time while others never do. Scoring can also be accomplished in exactly the same manner over and over again, with the same passes made, followed by a shot taken from a 'sweetspot' which goes in every time. This leads to an empty feeling with no sense of accomplishment being felt. On top of this, passing can be circumvented entirely should anyone feel the need. 1-0 down with 5 minutes left? simply run the length of the pitch and score with any given player. ANYONE! These are some of the flaws that you feel fine about leaving aside. Flaws which in real terms add up to 90% or so of the game. No amount of customising game speed, camera angles and so forth is going to compensate for this. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but perhaps the fact of the matter is that it is these things seem to have gone above your head, leaving you with a somewhat blinded judgement on the game. Now, just to clarify, I am talking about FIFA 2002 and the 2002 world cup game, not FIFA 2003 which seems to be a great improvement so far.

 

[simakperrce]

Originally posted by theCRO
PAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....that's so idiotic it needs no reply.

care to evaluate why you think it's idiotic? because fundamentally it's not.

the conclusions he drew might be questionable, but so is your attitude of brushing his opinions away without basing them on facts.

 

[simakperrce]

Re: Re: Why does nobody realise?

Originally posted by The Kop Kid
I agree with you that the PES digital passing and dribbling model needs work, but the statement that you made about people who play PES not being able to get to grips with FIFA's passing model are completely unfounded. I personally play both FIFA and PES, and yes, I was quite able to use the fifa controls in FIFA2002. Also FIFA2003 has returned to a through ball button which begs the question: If the 2002 passing system was so damn good, then why dump it for 2003?
To say that the gameplay in the previous istallments is beyond anything that ISS ( I take it you mean PES) has ever accomplished is perhaps also a little wide of the mark. The problem with FIFA games in the past is that the total analogue freedom has been countered by the scripted nature of the game. I mean, whats the point in being able to pass the ball anywhere If certain moves and build-ups work 100% of the time while others never do. Scoring can also be accomplished in exactly the same manner over and over again, with the same passes made, followed by a shot taken from a 'sweetspot' which goes in every time. This leads to an empty feeling with no sense of accomplishment being felt. On top of this, passing can be circumvented entirely should anyone feel the need. 1-0 down with 5 minutes left? simply run the length of the pitch and score with any given player. ANYONE! These are some of the flaws that you feel fine about leaving aside. Flaws which in real terms add up to 90% or so of the game. No amount of customising game speed, camera angles and so forth is going to compensate for this. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but perhaps the fact of the matter is that it is these things seem to have gone above your head, leaving you with a somewhat blinded judgement on the game. Now, just to clarify, I am talking about FIFA 2002 and the 2002 world cup game, not FIFA 2003 which seems to be a great improvement so far.

again well said, kopkid. i might want to add that whether YOU can play realistically or not is only half of the game. the other half is whether the CPU plays realistically and "analog" as well. i can't speek for FIFA 2003 but in 2002 this was not the case at all. i remember the CPU, regardless of team or situation, would always pull repetitive moves, such as the one in which the right winger would shoot a perfect pinpointed cross to the leftwinger, regardless of the fact, whether this move made sense at all or not. almost every attack would be based on that scheme. and even though a center forward would probably be better positioned they STILL would do it.

true, there are quite some scripted moves in the PES AI as well but it is way subtler and less repetitive.

 

[theCRO]

Originally posted by simakperrce
care to evaluate why you think it's idiotic? because fundamentally it's not.

the conclusions he drew might be questionable, but so is your attitude of brushing his opinions away without basing them on facts.

No, not really...

I haven't the energy, I've given founded arguments from extensive experience dozens of times in other threads, a futile effort and one which leads me to conclude that the post is so idiotic it's laughable.

Limitations in PES as opposed to FIFA?
Tweaking acomplishes more than ISS has ever done in gameplay?


Oh please...it leads me to suspect that the poster in question has never played PES, as many of these trouble posters have been exposed as frauds before.

This is hilarious...

 

[basketcase_bos]

well it seems pretty analogue based to me. you can play the ball pretty much wherever you like just like on fifa 2002. i dont think the new control system is so different. in my opinion the "through ball" button is really a "manual pass", as long as you dont tap it, you hold it down for the correct power and aim it where you like. if you use the normal pass button it is like an auto-pass, straight to feet. if you use the other one you can play the ball anywhere you like using an analogue pad and power bar - this is just the same as on 2002. in fact you can play the whole game using this button rather than the auto pass, then its just exactly the same as 2002. i find using a good mixture of the two you can get a really good style, playing the ball almost exactly where you want.

 

[basketcase_bos]

p.s. i agree totally with your comments re:fifa 2002. why is everyone so harsh on it. the passing system on there was far better than anything previous to it, so it took more skill to perfect but once you do you can really play exactly how you want!

just like 2003

only thing i can think of which ive noticed a lot from posts on here about keyboard controls is that people were playing on keyboard. i tried this and it sucks. the reason most people probably slag off 2002 is theyre not using the proper equipment to do it justice. get a decent (analogue) pad :P

 

[the_man]

Originally posted by Liquid_Corpse
Great points, both you guys.

One of the reason people are complaining about how unrealistic games are because they are playing it unrealistic. They allways pass the wingers on the side the camera is, allways use long cross-passes for random runs, they try to steal the ball from an idiot defender and then score on a lone keeper.

If you play realistic on the latest FIFA Games, WC 2002 and especially FIFA 2003 (maybe FIFA 2002 a little) the game will become more realistic.

With the right skills you can do anything on FIFA 2003 and WC 2002. Score close, score far away, even with the skilled precision score with the cross button. All it takes is the right equipment and the right skills and knowleage.

I'm not saying the FIFA-series is perfect, but it's more interesting to see the good aspects instead of the bad ones.

This sounds good on the surface but I diagree. Modifying the way you play to make a game realistic means there is something wrong with the game. How about a game that if use repetitive/predictable tactics or anything like that you get punished?

 

[theCRO]

having to modify your play to make it relistic is a joke, it means the game itsaelf, when played to win, is unrealistic.

 

[PrimeEight]

No not really; not every dying moment in football is spent trying to find the killer pass. When you try harder on games, you sometimes make stupid 'computer mistakes', which is what happens with FIFA.

I like the precissness of PES, which isn't present in FIFA 2002, but all it takes is a bit of discipline, and FIFA becomes something a lot better. In any case, playing unrealistically in FIFA does punish you - through the same things people complain about it, for instance, the terrible keeping, sometimes unpredictable control, simplistic etc...

P8

p.s. To all those who seem mortally offended about my opinions of FIFA, sorry, but I never really said a malicious word against PES. Cheers to those sporting posts.

 

[psychofifa2003]

nick clubman, does the game looks really good on the xbox? I am planning to buy it for the xbox. How do you got to play it?

 

[Tom Green]

i take it some people dont see certain things in fifa games...maybe "PrimeEight" doesnt notice when in fifa2002 the players slide through each other..or the fact that they can only pass in 8 directions,that the players dont even touch the ball while running or shooting,he may not notice how the CPU attacks in the same way in every match..how all the teams play exactly the same,how the passing system is so scripted that you can only pass in 8 directions or so..you can make the same passes over and over,some of em even going off bounds when you were aiming it a player just infront of you..how you can only shoot in one way..and most of time it will go the opposite direction...the inexistent smooth transitions between animations that make the game look like a jerky un-finished piece of trash.. the fact there is no depth whatsoever when every match is the same..yeah,he may have analog control(which is hard as hell IMO) and he may be able to change cameras(you can do that in PES) but to me..this man must be either partially blind or a 4 years old who likes smashing buttons in a crazy fashion will simulating something similar to football..

 

[The Kop Kid]

Re: Re: Re: Why does nobody realise?

Originally posted by simakperrce
again well said, kopkid. i might want to add that whether YOU can play realistically or not is only half of the game. the other half is whether the CPU plays realistically and "analog" as well. i can't speek for FIFA 2003 but in 2002 this was not the case at all. i remember the CPU, regardless of team or situation, would always pull repetitive moves, such as the one in which the right winger would shoot a perfect pinpointed cross to the leftwinger, regardless of the fact, whether this move made sense at all or not. almost every attack would be based on that scheme. and even though a center forward would probably be better positioned they STILL would do it.

true, there are quite some scripted moves in the PES AI as well but it is way subtler and less repetitive.

Really good point. That's always been a little irritating to me also. Sometimes a computer player would run at goal from a certain angle and I barely bothered about him, knowing full well that whether I marked him or not he was going to pass to the guy in a square position. I simply placed my defender between the guy with the ball and the second man and voila!, a perfect interception every time. I hope that this has been fixed for the 2003 title.

 

[PrimeEight]

If you play FIFA with the D-pad, of course the passes available to you go in 8 directions. Use analogue (nobody does) and you can put any weight, height, curve and power on any pass. That's why I prefer FIFA wc2002 to PES. Fair enough, the computer gameplay is crap, but what are friends for?


P8

p.s. To all those accusing me of never having played PES, I beat a PES player 5-0 last night on Pro Evolution (Barcelona-Roma). For a game that is hard to score in, that's not too bad. I was still bored as F.