The UEFA Champions League 2011/12 Thread

[Filipower]

But that's my whole point!

 

[Arnau]

Where are those top EPL teams then? Chelsea is the only one still in european competition and is not even a good team.

 

[Filipower]

No, I meant my whole point is you can't assume a team would behave in a certain way in another league week in week out just because of european ties. I get your point and admit to a certain extent it's the best estimate we will get, but it's not very accurate IMO

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Spain is a lot better than England right now. I'm surprised some of you can even argue that point.

 

[Xifio]

It's not the thinking man's game but it'll get your general clueless football fan watching the English game because it's quicker.

[genuine applause!]

The problem with La Liga's coverage in England is Sky Sports.

this problem is ubiquitous ... the Prem found it easier to capture the anglophone market [for obvious reasons], and an overwhelming percentage of the globe is anglophone [to some degree] ... and you can't compare the Prem's range of uniformly branded English-language match analyses, magazine shows, etc. to the English-language coverage of other leagues -- it is a joke, or at least pales in comparison ...

I personally watch Serie A matches and magazine programs in Italian quite a lot ... if someone thinks they know Serie A, but can't honestly say they've ever heard of Striscia La Notizia, or the Tapiro D'Oro, then they have never been exposed to complete calcio experience ... it is an example of how things left untranslated to the English language diminishes its global appeal ...

Every season in the Premiership has such a dramatic closing couple of months, you've only got too look at the season where Newcastle came close to winning the title, that's probably the best example of what the English Premiership brings to the table.

Newcastle coming close to the top couldn't have been after 02/03, could it? coz back in the 02/03 season, Real Sociedad (with Xabi Alonso, Nihat, and Darko Kovačevi&#263 produced a heroic season, and pushed Real Madrid all the way in the title race ... and 2 of the top 4 (Champions League qualifiers) from that season are in the Segunda now ... it's always been a topsy-turvy situation with the 'other teams' in Spain ...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Newcastle were 3rd in 02/03. Everton actually finished above Liverpool when the Reds won the Champions League a few years later than that. Not to mention Leeds at the beginning of that decade.

Xifio... Italy is awful. England is faster AND better than Italy.

 

[Xifio]

faster? see Ebonix's post I quoted above ...

better? according to whom? and in what aspect?

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Yes, I was responding to your approving nod to Ebonix. All else being equal, a faster game is a better game. That Italian football sucks (uncreative attacking, cynical defending, cynical diving) is beyond contention. It does. It always has objectively sucked, but now the talent is lower than any time in recent memory too. I'm glad you find the beauty in impotent attacks and match fixing though. I like Big Ten basketball. We all need something.

 

[Xifio]

Yes, I was responding to your approving nod to Ebonix. All else being equal, a faster game is a better game. That Italian football sucks (uncreative attacking, cynical defending, cynical diving) is beyond contention. It does. It always has objectively sucked, but now the talent is lower than any time in recent memory too. I'm glad you find the beauty in impotent attacks and match fixing though. I like Big Ten basketball. We all need something.

why? coz this is what the majority thinks? who gives a f*ck?

cerebral > boorish ... there's a reason why the English FA are scraping the barrel to find a local manager of ability, and why Italy (or Spain, or even Germany) has never had that problem ...

 

[Ebonix]

[genuine applause!]
Newcastle coming close to the top couldn't have been after 02/03, could it? coz back in the 02/03 season, Real Sociedad (with Xabi Alonso, Nihat, and Darko Kovačevi&#263 produced a heroic season, and pushed Real Madrid all the way in the title race ... and 2 of the top 4 (Champions League qualifiers) from that season are in the Segunda now ... it's always been a topsy-turvy situation with the 'other teams' in Spain ...

I'm thinking of the Keegan era at Newcaslte where he was so close and then lost it after the outburst on Sky. It was the 95-96 season that happened. I'm only speaking from experience of the English game, I'm not too well versed on other leagues but the 95-96 season was the best example I could think of. These sorts of things happen most seasons over here. Alright Man Utd do win the league most of the time but it's the drama in how they do it that puts bums on seats.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

why? coz this is what the majority thinks? who gives a f*ck?

cerebral > boorish ... there's a reason why the English FA are scraping the barrel to find a local manager of ability, and why Italy (or Spain, or even Germany) has never had that problem ...

Football isn't chess. No one wants to see guys walking around in 30 feet of space even if they're thinking really hard. Speaking of which, it's harder to play faster, which means it's easier to break down defenses when you're going fast. Which means it's smarter to play faster.

And don't you dare drag Germany into this. We play nothing like ****ty Italy.

And LOL at "boorish". Because feigning injury and fixing games is the epitome of a gentleman's game. As if there aren't horrible tackles in Italy.

 

[Arnau]

why? coz this is what the majority thinks? who gives a f*ck?

cerebral > boorish ... there's a reason why the English FA are scraping the barrel to find a local manager of ability, and why Italy (or Spain, or even Germany) has never had that problem ...

Brendan Rodgers is a good coach

 

[Xifio]

Football isn't chess. No one wants to see guys walking around in 30 feet of space even if they're thinking really hard.

because that's what they do in chess? walk around thinking? how about their managers? did their managers meticulously and tactically develop gameplans for the players to astutely comprehend and execute in-game? oh, right ...

Speaking of which, it's harder to play faster, which means it's easier to break down defenses when you're going fast. Which means it's smarter to play faster.

no, it's not, on all counts ...

And don't you dare drag Germany into this. We play nothing like ****ty Italy.

yes, noting that Germany has adept managers is 'dragging them into this' ... idiot ...

And LOL at "boorish". Because feigning injury and fixing games is the epitome of a gentleman's game. As if there aren't horrible tackles in Italy.

sure there are ... but I'm obviously referencing the tactical nature of play vs. box-to-box basketball-style play ... faster is always better is a low-brow mentality ... if you are of that disposition, then I guess the shoe fits for you too ...

 

[Xifio]

I'm thinking of the Keegan era at Newcaslte where he was so close and then lost it after the outburst on Sky. It was the 95-96 season that happened. I'm only speaking from experience of the English game, I'm not too well versed on other leagues but the 95-96 season was the best example I could think of. These sorts of things happen most seasons over here. Alright Man Utd do win the league most of the time but it's the drama in how they do it that puts bums on seats.

fair enough about what you're exposed to ... La Liga too has had its share of close finishes, both in the title race and for Champions League places ... I gave an example of a memorable season I recall in the past decade from Spain ... but we mustn't be fickle and generalize based on the last 2-3 years, where the gap has been embarrassingly wide between the top 2 and the rest ... for the record, I watch and follow the English league -- why not? it's different, and the coverage is always exemplary ... I just don't like the style of play as much as Italy or Spain ...

 

[Mandieta6]

Saying box-to-box football is for the low-brow is such elitist crap. The antithesis of box-to-box is possession football, which is absolutely boring. Watching a team pass the ball around, playing the waiting game, and taking 10 minutes to complete a move is not entertaining, and it's certainly not cerebral. The only cerebral aspect is that of the Xavis who make the key passes, which are entertaining, but beyond that, it's boring, and to claim that because the players who play the football you watch are more intelligent (more vision) than the players who play mine (box-to-box, where physicality rules) is bull****.

Playing chess is nice, watching it is retarded.

And sports are about entertainment, and there's nothing more entertaining in football than seeing goals and chances. You get more of that in box-to-box game. I love it that you're trying to pass off an an intellectual when watching football. You can analyse the tactics and aspects of the game, but when you watch it, the complexity of the tactics and thought-process of the players does not transcend and is therefor meaningless from an entertainment standpoint.

 

[Filipower]

faster is always better is a low-brow mentality

Hahaha you arguing something is low-brow is so funny.

 

[Xifio]

Hahaha you arguing something is low-brow is so funny.

heyyy, I'm glad something is making you laugh, you special little guy ...

Saying box-to-box football is for the low-brow is such elitist crap. The antithesis of box-to-box is possession football, which is absolutely boring. Watching a team pass the ball around, playing the waiting game, and taking 10 minutes to complete a move is not entertaining, and it's certainly not cerebral. The only cerebral aspect is that of the Xavis who make the key passes, which are entertaining, but beyond that, it's boring, and to claim that because the players who play the football you watch are more intelligent (more vision) than the players who play mine (box-to-box, where physicality rules) is bull****.

Playing chess is nice, watching it is retarded.

And sports are about entertainment, and there's nothing more entertaining in football than seeing goals and chances. You get more of that in box-to-box game. I love it that you're trying to pass off an an intellectual when watching football. You can analyse the tactics and aspects of the game, but when you watch it, the complexity of the tactics and thought-process of the players does not transcend and is therefor meaningless from an entertainment standpoint.

well, thought process of the manager too ... but yeah, if it doesn't for you, that sucks ... it does for me, and it's what I enjoy ... 'eye of the beholder', so pointless to argue about what is "better" ... to each his own ...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

because that's what they do in chess? walk around thinking? how about their managers? did their managers meticulously and tactically develop gameplans for the players to astutely comprehend and execute in-game? oh, right ..

no, it's not, on all counts ...

yes, noting that Germany has adept managers is 'dragging them into this' ... idiot ...

sure there are ... but I'm obviously referencing the tactical nature of play vs. box-to-box basketball-style play ... faster is always better is a low-brow mentality ... if you are of that disposition, then I guess the shoe fits for you too ...

I'm not going to waste my time defending a bunch of straw men your mind has created out of my simple and obvious statements.

If you think that defending a fast moving attack is "on no account" harder than defending a slow moving attack then I challenge you to a game of 1 on 1 basketball, however when you have the ball you are only allowed to walk. I eagerly await you demonstrating your point. If you think 1 on 1 basketball isn't fair, I'm willing to play 5 a side soccer against a team only allowed to walk when in possession. Barca is so deadly because they are so fast. Ditto for the counter attack game that is all the rage right now. Slow Italian attacks are pathetic to watch and easy to defend.

 

[Filipower]

heyyy, I'm glad something is making you laugh, you special little guy ...

"Something" isn't making me laugh. Your once again absurd arguments are making me laugh. I love how you always resort to a little insult when you inevitably start losing your cool, though.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

I lol'ed.

I think that both the English and the Spanish leagues are probably the best of what they are in terms of playing styles. They're quite different from each other in terms of comparison.

BTW, one would think that playing possession football would acutally limit the number of goals a team could score due to the majority of the time spent on the ball. What has been the record win for Guardiola's Barca?