The Kosovo Independence Thread {P+R}

[ShiftyPowers]

And especially when using them for organizations such as the KLA. BTW, just to iterate my position - As Kosovo will lead to a Greater Albania I am thus against it's independence. Transferring a state's territory to another one, against the first state's consent, is wrong and against the principle of the sovereign territorial unity of any state.

Also, I hate how they say this Kosovar independence marks the end of the violence of Yugoslavia. There were 6 Consituent Republics of Yugoslavia and from the peaceful split of SCG that was the final step of its dissolution.

God, stop being such a little bitch. You have no legitimate reason for opposing this. There's not going to be retaliation. Serbia is a castrated nation that cannot act.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

But Kosovo's ultimate objective is not independence; no matter how much you want it to be. Even if the Kosovan Constitution says that it cannot join with another state - as soon as they can do so, they will join with Albania. Unless sovereignty is meant to be dictated to?

There's not going to be violent retaliation, both sides have said that, nor should there be.

And I'm also against it bcause Russia will use the precedent to usurp its own ends.

EDIT: Tito was half-Croatian and half-Slovenian. You're going to tell me that he stole his own ethnic land?

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Wow that is very smart. Kosovo doesn't belong to Serbia you uneducated prick.
It was taken away from Albania 96 years ago. It is only fair and square they're independed.

Than after all the atrocities there are still people that don't see the truth. It's an Albanian majority you fool. Albanians are not even slavic.

1. I was talking about Republika Srpska. In Effect: the possibility of Serbia interfering in Bosnia's internal affairs with its own ethnic population. If your going to apply international principles apply them equally across the board. If you're going to call Pristina Albanian, purely on demographics, call Banja Luka Serbian. I'm going to sit here and do neither.

2. Albania never held Kosovo territorially, even in 1912. Just because a country claims a territory, doesn't mean its entitled to it. Does Albania have a god-given right to territory in Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro on the basis that there are Albanians living there? In any case, there is no point recognizing Kosovo's indepedence, it will only become part of Albania eventually.

3. Their being Slavic or not has nothing to do with it. The Republic of Serbia created in 2006 was after the death of Milosevic, the ring-leader of all those shameful and unjustifiable massacres and attrocities. If you're going to paint all Serbs with the one brush, even after Milosevic's death, that makes you just as bad as him.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

but that's who created this 6 'republics' that never were Serbian and never will be.



we are around 95 % Albanians, and with referendum we can change constitution or whatever we want. Why in Kosovo serbs should have much better right than any other community has actually in EU for example.

we are 95 % why we should ask community's that totally makes 5 %

1. Serbian troops did not have to invade all the way to Slovenian Mountains in 1918 in order to make Yugoslavia. So then, in that case, you are saying Slovenes and Croats are just as bad?

2. No I'm not talking about the opposition of Serbs in Kosovo. I mean the members of the International Community that supported Kosovo's unilateral declaration. And those are the same members that implemented the provision that Kosovo cannot join with another state, like in the Ahtisaarii Plan. If you change that in the Constitution by yourselves, and in doing so, go against their thesis for your state, those members won't necessarily support you in your bid to unite with Albania.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Ahtisaarii Plan value for one time, after that we will have totally Independent state like your Poland has

and with referendum with more than 50 % of votes you can change everything in you state, or no ???



is this democratic ??? you killed albanian guy, coz he celebrated albania's win against grecce in 4 septemeber 2004

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/archives.php?id=37617
http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=1404

and look what you did to albanian flag in grecce - albania match (05.04.2005)

you do this in football match, what about other things ??

First two points I agree with you.

1. You do not want to be purely independent. Even from Albania.

2. What about sovereignty of Serbia + Kosovo? Surely Albanians in Kosovo didn't make 50% of total population. US and Big 4 of EU just denied Serbia its sovereignty over territory that it recognized as part of Serbia in UN Resolution 1244. (Serbia as successor to Yugoslavia)

This is the exact point. A state does not have sovereignty over its territory if enough influential countries are against it having such power within its own domain. Even if as recognized by international law and border treaties with its neighbours. With one-sided independence from just one ethnicity, peace will not be achieved. Look at what's happening now in Mitrovica.

Greece is a prominent NATO and EU member, If you go after its territory because there are Albanians there - that'll be a step too far.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

1. I didnt say that, I said after some years we will be totally Independent, and than we will decide our luck

2. Kosovo is unique chase. Kosovo was part of Serbia in different way, not as one state, we have our borders, we "voted" for our luck (Beograd said, we will recognise what you decide but when that happened, they said no you are wrong and this bul****s like this). We make 95 % of our territory (Kosovo) and doesnt matter if we make 50 % of serbia or no.

We are independent from serbia from 1999 but 17 february was official.

Yes you will decide your eventual fate. To join with Albania.

Well then same can be said of Chechnya or Transnistria. They are unique cases too, administratively speaking. Unique from Kosovo and from themselves.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Well the thing is Transnistria was established in 1991 with the support of Russia following the brake-up of the USSR from the then newly declared republic of Moldova.

In fact, its president says that its existence is the first step to recreating the USSR.

Also, Georgia won't recognise you, even with a liberal president like Saakashvili, who has heavy backing from the U.S. It has Russian interference with South Ossetia and Abkhazia to deal with. It considers any official Russian recognition of those territories unilateral moves equal to a declaration of war.

 

[Theodorakis]

Ahtisaarii Plan value for one time, after that we will have totally Independent state like your Poland has

and with referendum with more than 50 % of votes you can change everything in you state, or no ???



is this democratic ??? you killed albanian guy, coz he celebrated albania's win against grecce in 4 septemeber 2004

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/archives.php?id=37617
http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=1404

and look what you did to albanian flag in grecce - albania match (05.04.2005)

you do this in football match, what about other things ??

man, I really appreciate your enthusiasm against greeks but I'm not one of them..

 

[Turk123]

If Kosovo wants to reunite with their fellow countrymen in Albania, they would also have every right to do it since %90 of its population is Albanian, not Serb, not Greek, Albanian.
This recognition-incident once again showed that the foreign policy of both Russia and their allies are nothing but trouble to the rest of the world.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

But Kosovo's ultimate objective is not independence; no matter how much you want it to be. Even if the Kosovan Constitution says that it cannot join with another state - as soon as they can do so, they will join with Albania. Unless sovereignty is meant to be dictated to?

So what?

 

[RobbieD_PL]

So what?

So the idea of a independent Kosovo is nothing more than a sham.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080131/COMMENTARY/288472699/0/FOREIGN

John Bolton might be a wanker that hates the UN but he's right on this one.

Even if you convince yourselves that Kosovo is unique because of the genocide and massacres, other seperatist states ARE using Kosovo's unilateral move as a legitimized example for their own aims.

 

[Bobby]

I actually read a lot about separatist movements, they're a fascination of mine. I was actually puzzled as to why this took so long, everyone expected it. Montenegro actually surprised me somewhat, I thought they were happy with Serbia. Admittedly, Balkin politics are not a strong point of mine, it's a hornet's nest I try to steer clear of.

There's actually a breakaway ethic state within the boundaries of the US, the Republic of Lakotah. (wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah - but I'm telling you, some of the names are hilarious) Washington isn't worried about it because that's the poorest part of the country, some of South Dakota is like the third world, they simply don't have the means to do it.

 

[Ubik Valis]

Bobby, let's picket outside the White House with Albanian flags and signs that read: "First Kosova, now Lakota! Fray-dum! Fray-dum!"

 

[Bobby]

Bobby, let's picket outside the White House with Albanian flags and signs that read: "First Kosova, now Lakota! Fray-dum! Fray-dum!"

We have to ask Charmaine White Face first.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080131/COMMENTARY/288472699/0/FOREIGN

John Bolton might be a wanker that hates the UN but he's right on this one.

Even if you convince yourselves that Kosovo is unique because of the genocide and massacres, other seperatist states ARE using Kosovo's unilateral move as a legitimized example for their own aims.

Listen to yourself. You are aligning yourself with JOHN BOLTEN! The man has never been right about anything in his life. You are quoting a piece in the Bush version of Pravda, the Washington Times!

You are demanding adherence to some lame treaty that the residents of Kosovo likely had no hand in making. Let them do what they want, if they would prefer to be part of Albania, since they are 90% Albanian, then who are you to tell them they can't.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Listen to yourself. You are aligning yourself with JOHN BOLTEN! The man has never been right about anything in his life. You are quoting a piece in the Bush version of Pravda, the Washington Times!

You are demanding adherence to some lame treaty that the residents of Kosovo likely had no hand in making. Let them do what they want, if they would prefer to be part of Albania, since they are 90% Albanian, then who are you to tell them they can't.

If I am against the death penalty, and if Bill O'Reilly is so as well, does that make me a hard-ass Conservative?

They why bother with setting up an independent state of Kosovo and recognizing it?

EDIT: Serbia, the sovereign state over Kosovo, didn't have a say over it either.

And that's because it's a UN Security Council Resolution, not a lame treaty.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I'm sure it's much more of an endorsement for a greater Albania than it is a recognition of a sovereign Kosovo.

Serbia shouldn't have a say; Serbia should never have had Kosovo.

UN Resolution, UN Smesholution.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

I'm sure it's much more of an endorsement for a greater Albania than it is a recognition of a sovereign Kosovo.

Serbia shouldn't have a say; Serbia should never have had Kosovo.

UN Resolution, UN Smesholution.

Well their sovereign will, even as you put it, is to join with Albania. It's not a matter of if they'll unify with Tirana but when. The independent state of Kosovo, at least for the Albanians residing there - and pretty much everyone else too, is only temporary. So let me ask again, why bother? Just transfer the territory of Kosovo from Serbia to Albania and be done with it.

Well then why set up a Republika Srpska in Bosnia, from the Dayton agreement? The crimes committed there were MUCH worse than in Kosovo.

That last response? It reminded me of this :

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Well their sovereign will, even as you put it, is to join with Albania. It's not a matter of if they'll unify with Tirana but when. The independent state of Kosovo, at least for the Albanians residing there - and pretty much everyone else too, is only temporary. So let me ask again, why bother? Just transfer the territory of Kosovo from Serbia to Albania and be done with it.

Well then why set up a Republika Srpska in Bosnia, from the Dayton agreement? The crimes committed there were MUCH worse than in Kosovo.

That last response? It reminded me of this :

And you remind me of this:

Obviously it would be impossible to just transfer the land from Serbia to Albania.