The Issues: Topic 1 - National Healthcare

Discussion in 'SG Players Lounge' started by Joe, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. Joe

    Joe Starting XI

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Here's the candidate rundown:

    Hillary Clinton (D): Mandates individual health insurance coverage for all Americans. Offers federal subsidies for those who cannot afford it. Allows individuals to choose from among several private plans also offered to members of Congress, as well as a new public insurance plan modeled after Medicare.

    John Edwards (D): Mandates individual health insurance coverage for all Americans by 2012. Requires employers to either provide health coverage for employees or help defray their insurance costs.

    Barack Obama (D): Would create a national health insurance program for individuals who do not have employer-provided health care and who do not qualify for other existing federal programs.

    Mitt Romney (R): Supports covering the uninsured without raising taxes or creating a government-controlled system. Encourages states to develop their own plans to cover the uninsured using market-based approaches.

    John McCain (R): Opposes federally mandated universal coverage. Would increase awareness and promote the use of existing children's health insurance programs while expanding community health centers.

    Mike Huckabee (R): Says current system is "irrevocably broken" but opposes federally mandated universal coverage. Would encourage private sector innovation to reduce health care costs.

    - compiled from CNN

    Thoughts on the issues personally? Or on the candidates' stances? Canadians--or anyone else for that matter--care to inform us how your healthcare system works?

    I'll chip in once we get going.
     
  2. Nimreitz

    Nimreitz Make America Great Again

    Joined:
    May 8, 2000
    Messages:
    36,720
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Colorado
    I hate this bull****. Why can't a candidate just say "universal health care is clearly the best option in some form. We're going to find that form"
     
  3. King

    King My ass smells like your mom

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New York
    All Lies.
     
  4. Back Door Skip

    Back Door Skip Pedro Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Messages:
    11,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Health care for the poor is bad business for the country, apparently.
     
  5. ::shinji::

    ::shinji:: Min

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1999
    Messages:
    10,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada's deep south
    Personally, I find it amazing how Americans have put up with not having universal health care for this long..

    How it works? It's Free. (ok I know it's not free technically since my taxes pay for it, but for all intents and purposes it is)

    I can walk into any hospital, doctor's office, or health clinic, anywhere in the country and get free health care, no questions asked besides filling out a small form with my personal info.

    Perscriptions, Dental, and Optical, aren't covered without insurance (although there is help available for those who can't afford it), but it's a small sacrifice to pay. Especially when we hear the horror stories from south of the border about people losing their life savings and homes to pay medical bills.

    This is one of the reasons why I don't get why any average US citizen would ever vote Republican considering they're always so adamantly opposed to universal health care. To me that really says they don't have the average poor or working class person's best interests and well-being in mind... and when you think that we have it, England has it, not to mention most other Euro countries do too, it's not like it's an unatainable idea.
     
  6. rhizome17

    rhizome17 Fan Favourite

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    Ditto down here. Although prescriptions are subsidised heavily for lower income families and individuals. And low income is relative, you are eligible for the subsidies up until you earn more than $60000 p.a.

    As with all health systems, there are issues, such as shortage of doctors, midwives, nurses, occasional strikes by interns etc. but nothing that is dangerous. Private health insurance isn't even needed by the vast majority of people. Even my wife, who isn't even a resident, is eligible for free healthcare because we are married. And being American, she is astounded by how comprehensive the treatment is for a free service.
     
  7. Joe

    Joe Starting XI

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    From the few conservatives I've talked to they're concerned about the small minority that will be taking advantage of the system without working for it and don't want their tax dollars going to a "bum." I gave them a situation they would obviously agree with: hard-working single mom works minimum wage jobs, barely can afford food and rent and suddenly one of her kids gets deathly ill. She obviously would be in dire straights without health insurance, but if anyone deserved free healthcare it most definitely if anyone deserves it, it would be her.

    The problem is they're focused too much on that person who doesn't deserve it. There are always people who will unfairly take advantage of situations like that--always. Gotta look past it and see the larger majority who will fairly benefit from it. And even regarding that small minority taking out but not putting in, what a great society that values quality of life and gives safety net healthcare to ANYONE. That's what government is supposed to be about. Not just the good of "you," but everyone.
     
  8. rhizome17

    rhizome17 Fan Favourite

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    I think that is many welfare issues, there are a couple of things that get thrown into the 'debate' and treated as 'truth', whilst the 'facts' are conveniently overlooked. With healthcare, from the evidence and research I have seen, it tends to go like this:

    A few people who abuse the system get targeted as being the demons of the system, and given as evidence as to why welfare is bad. Meanwhile, it is actually the middle classes who both benefit from, and make use of, the free service. Funnily enough, it is this same class that buy into the propaganda of the lumpenproletariat abusing the system, and demand tax cuts. And upon receiving the tax cuts, complain that 1. the new 'bare bones' service is inadequate (forgetting that lower taxes = less health funding) and 2. bemoan the high premiums charged by private insurance firms and 3. bitch about the fact that private insurers will go to any lengths NOT to pay out.
     
  9. Avalanche

    Avalanche Senior Squad

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    West Warwick, Rhode Island: AS SEEN ON 60 MINUTES!
    The healthcare-pharmaceutical lobby groups will make sure that universal healthcare will never happen.
     
  10. Bobby

    Bobby The Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    21,730
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ghduogofhuho Bay, Greenland
    Then we have to turn to the Ron Paul fan tactics...annoy the ever-loving **** out of them.
     
  11. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,576
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    Because it isn't.
     
  12. rhizome17

    rhizome17 Fan Favourite

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    ANd actually, all the problems we DO have with our system began only when aspects of the American model began to be introduced by tinkering politicians convinced of their own theories rather than hard research and facts (like the person in the post above me)
     
  13. Run DMB

    Run DMB MVP

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,081
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    I like Huckabee's emphasis on preventive healthcare, though I'm not sure exactly how that's going to play out as a specific policy proposal.

    Other than that, I'm blissfully ignorant on healthcare so I'll take myself out of the discussion. (I diagnose and treat myself using the internet.)
     
  14. rhizome17

    rhizome17 Fan Favourite

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    WHO (hardly a radical organisation) have the US as the highest spenders relative to GDP in the world on healthcare, with a ranking of 37th in terms of outcomes... now even an amateur can see that something is wrong there...
     
  15. ::shinji::

    ::shinji:: Min

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1999
    Messages:
    10,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada's deep south
    That's the typical conservative paranoia for ya man, anything remotely new or different is a perceived threat in some way or another.
     
  16. Joe

    Joe Starting XI

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yeah, while it may be true in some cases (although Rhizome put that in perspective too), it's not looking at the larger benefit to the whole.
     
  17. VanTheMin

    VanTheMin Red Card - Life Life Ban

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    3,843
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    on the pitch
    it al lchanges after their elected
    the world always lies :(
    honesty is wiped
     
      

Share This Page