The England National team thread

[Mandieta6]

Squad:

Scott Carson (Bursaspor), Joe Hart (Man City), David Stockdale (Ipswich); Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Bolton), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Man Utd), Micah Richards (Man City), John Terry (captain, Chelsea), Kyle Walker (Tottenham); Gareth Barry (Man City), Stewart Downing (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Man City), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), James Milner (Man City), Scott Parker (Tottenham), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Ashley Young (Man Utd); Darren Bent (Aston Villa), Andy Carroll (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Man Utd), Danny Welbeck (Man Utd), Bobby Zamora (Fulham)

Baffling. I think Dawson is injured, which explains that. Jones has impressed a lot, and Smalling is injured, so that's understandable, although I personally don't think he's better than some other relatively young CBs. Then again, he's the future, might as well start picking him. Walker is good and Micah is... not as bad as he was in the past, so... ok.

The midfield is pretty much as expected, but the attack I don't get. Rooney, Welbeck, Zamora, Bent and Carroll.

Targetmen first. I get not calling up either Davies or Cole. Davies is old and already got his honorary call-up and Cole is playing in the Championship. Zamora definitely deserves a call-up, but he's getting on with the years, whereas Carroll is the future targetman, but has been poor for Liverpool (barring what, the derby goal?). So there's reasons to pick and not to pick both of them, but why on earth would you pick both?

My guesses for why this might be are: 1. Capello feels that Zamora could teach Carroll a few things, and uses this opportunity to get them to train together.

2. Capello has identified that for the upcoming matches he wants a physical player up front and wants one for the whole 90 minutes, so he brought 2 just in case.

But this just doesn't makes sense. Especially since he brought in two left-footed wingers (with Young likely to play through the middle, and Walcott offering not danger in terms of crossing). One of the targetmen should be out and Gabby in. Gabby's been brilliant as of late, and is consistently proving that he can hold-up play (so if Capello does want two targetmen, Gabby could be one), link up and offer a threat from wide both by cutting in and by putting good balls into the box. He's been much better than Bent, and even if Bent is a better natural goal-scorer, Gabby's in better form than any of Bent, Carroll or Walcott and it's criminal that all 3 have been selected instead of him.

I don't think Walcott should be selected over Sturridge, who is very fast too, and he's much more effective in his one-dimensionality, but with Johnson and Downing in the squad, I get why Danny's left out.

EDIT: Actually, looking at it, it's not baffling, there's just 2-3 mistakes, and there's a few injuries to some members, so... yeah. Basically, Walcott out Gabby in, or Walcott and Carroll out Danny and Gabby in would've been great.

EDIT 2: No, I've thought about it, and Sturridge shouldn't be picked yet.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Doesn't look baffling at all to me. Everything looks about how you should expect barring Sturridge for Carroll or Zamora.

 

[Mandieta6]

Yeah, as I said in the edit, not baffling, just 1-2 mistakes.

 

[1966+2006]

I think Agbonlahor is seeing a specialist about his back injury. I would have liked to see Sturridge in there, as well.

 

[Pogba4Now]

So, Rooney will be missing for at least 1 game in the EUROs and the verdict will be on Thursday. England will again struggle without him like they did at the beginning of the 2006 WC when he was injured. The same thing will happen again.

TBH I don't think any other backup striker is good enough to be in the first 11 in a team like England. Agbonlahor, Bent, Defoe, Crouch, Cole, Sturridge or Welbeck certainly are good but not on par with strikers of NTs of comparable calibre for e.g. Spain or Germany. Welbeck and Sturridge are young but are simply not good enough yet.

What Capello said is laughable: “I need to find the solution for the first game, or two games, that Rooney will not play,” said Capello. “And if we find that solution, he needs to work to return to the first 11. You know me. Sometimes I make mistakes but I try to select the best players, in the best moment of form.”

So, Rooney will have to "work" to compete with Bent and Defoe in the starting 11? Never gonna happen.

EDIT: Speaking about the England midfield, I think Capello should give up on Lampard and Gerrard now and he was right to leave out Lampard and Gerrard from the starting 11 in the last games despite both being available. They never performed as good as for their clubs for England and probably won't. Time to give way to the young guns like Cleverley or Wilshere.

I think defence is England's strongest area right now and the future looks bright in this department. Kyle walker has been very good for Tottenham this season and I think he will definitely be in England's plans. In the centre you have Jones and Smalling who have been great for both club and country and at LB you have Baines as backup for Cole. England is very well covered in defence for sure.

 

[yoyo913]

I don't think that challenge deserves an extended suspension. It was very idiotic and pointless but all he did was kick a guy's ankle while he had the ball, it happens so often.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Had he not been crawling all over his back it probably wouldn't have been a red, but that, plus the kick makes it legit IMO. You get 2 games with a red, everyone knows that.

 

[Xifio]

well, he lashed out with his foot, and was correctly sent off for violent conduct -- that qualifies as an automatic 3-match ban in the Prem ...

but UEFA decide each additional suspension (i.e. in addition to the automatic 1-match ban) on a case-by-case basis ... since it's not his first red card, and since this was for violent conduct, he'll get 2 (likely) or 3 ...

 

[ARIAGA II]

Just ban him from the cover of FIFA and I'll be glad...

 

[Pogba4Now]

Roney got a 3 game ban, so he won't play in the group stage! What's the point of including him in the squad when he will miss the group stage? Thats excellent news for United because this means Capello will prefer playing with Bent, Defoe etc in the friendlies. It would be stupid playing with Rooney in friendly games because he will miss the group stage.

 

[Mandieta6]

Hope it means Gabby gets a call-up.

 

[ARIAGA II]

Roney got a 3 game ban, so he won't play in the group stage! What's the point of including him in the squad when he will miss the group stage? Thats excellent news for United because this means Capello will prefer playing with Bent, Defoe etc in the friendlies. It would be stupid playing with Rooney in friendly games because he will miss the group stage.

Not to mention he'll miss 3/4ths of England involvement at the Euros

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Capello needs to just suck it up and go with Sturridge and Wellbeck. Bent, Defoe, and Carroll just won't get it done. Front three of Wellbeck, Sturridge, and maybe Downing is the way to go.

 

[Mandieta6]

I don't think Sturridge has earned anything more than a first cap right now, nor has Welbeck, although I'd expect them both to earn their spots for the Euro. Carroll should be dropped for Zamora for now, possibly for the Euros too. And Capello should go with one of Defoe or Bent, not both, probably Bent. Front 3 should be Gabby, Young, Downing, since Gabby isn't even in the reckoning so far, I'd say Zamora frankly, since no one other than Bent has the experience to lead the line in the Euros, which is what Capello is aiming for, since itps his last tournie.

It'd be funny if Capello calls up Rooney for the Euros, the other strikers get injured or sent off, and because of it they don't even reach the knockout stages. Last Euro Arshavin was suspended for the first 2 matches and returned in time to inspire Russia's road to the semis. Seriously though, Capello shouldn't call him up, although he's going to.

EDIT: Question, would Rooney's ban expire during the Euros if he's not called up?

 

[ARIAGA II]

Yes it would.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I think with Sturridge, you can argue that his 8 goals in 12 matches for Bolton last season place him near the top of the pecking order, at least I'd say ahead of Defoe and Carroll. Zamora is a good player, but I would think he's really only an option in a 4-4-2 and same with Bent. If you want to play 4-4-2 I would be fine with Zamora-Bent, but hopefully that's not the plan. In a 4-3-3ish formation, I'm not sure exactly who you would put at center forward other than Rooney, but I think Welbeck can handle it and he's also versatile.

But the main point is that Sturridge and Welbeck have immense potential, while Bent-Zamora-Defoe-Carroll will NOT win you this competition. If the potential of the two kids is fulfilled, England could make a big run, and that's why I think you have to go with them. If Rooney was good to go, I would say you can delay giving them full first team places, but not now. Agbonlahor falls into the Defoe category. He won't be enough.

If Capello goes 4-4-2, it's a different story though, naturally.

 

[Mandieta6]

Yeah, last year's form should have gotten him a cap, but it didn't, and in terms of current ability, he's not good enough, although, by the looks of things, it's not that he's not got enough, he just hasn't gotten the chance to prove he is. I assume that by the Euros, he'll get capped, but it shouldn't be in Rooney's spot.

Welbeck isn't good enough either, and if he gets picked he'll just get stuffed on the wing in a 4-3-3, where there are much better players to play. He certainly has the mobility to be dangerous in a 4-3-3, but I don't think he'll be able to adapt it in time, so I think the World Cup is his tournie.

Zamora would thrive in a striking partnership, but he's played as a lone striker and done a good job at it. He's currently the best targetman in the Prem with Davies but he's much more mobile than him. He can shift to the flanks and drag defenders wide, deep, and he has the technique to lay the ball off well. England has good crossers, so playing a big guy up front might not be modern, but it'd work. The fact that Zamora is much more mobile than Carrol, Davies or even Bent would help.

True that Agbonlahor doesn't have a huge potential, but in terms of ability, he deserves a starting berth. He and Zamora are the best strikers England's got behind Rooney, only Gabby can shift to the wing so I just don't get why he isn't getting caps.

For the Euros, I'd say take Walcott, Carroll and Rooney out, stick Gabby, Sturridge and Welbeck in, and you get the best of both worlds, not to mention that all 3 players would be able to slot in different positions so it makes more sense anyway. If Rooney gets called up, I think Welbeck should be dropped, or maybe Bent.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

You have to bring Rooney. There's just no other option IMO. As I said, there's no point even going if you don't try to win, and regardless of preparation I think Rooney gives the best chance to win. They would desperately need him against Spain.

 

[Pogba4Now]

Capello needs to just suck it up and go with Sturridge and Wellbeck. Bent, Defoe, and Carroll just won't get it done. Front three of Wellbeck, Sturridge, and maybe Downing is the way to go.

Downing? haha. Downing over young? Seriously? He's the man on form for England right now. He's been involved in almost all of ENgland's last couple of goals.

I agree with Welbeck and Sturridge. Young - Welbeck - Sturridge would be interesting to see. Or Young - Agbon - Sturridge. Still, that front is WAY behind other teams like Spain, Germany etc.

Not to mention he'll miss 3/4ths of England involvement at the Euros

Of maybe he'll miss 100% of England's involvement if England doesn't get through the group stage.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Downing? haha. Downing over young? Seriously? He's the man on form for England right now. He's been involved in almost all of ENgland's last couple of goals.

My bad, I didn't even think about Young. Yes of course he would be selected over Downing.