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Russia v Wales [P] + [R]
- Thread starter Fernandez
- Start date
Thelonious
Senior Squad
Wales could score 2 goals but unlikely
danger zone
Reserve Team
Wales have to be the ultimate nearly men of international football. So close to the WC in 1982, 86 and 94 yet somehow they always manage to throw it away at the last minute.This really is Giggs last shot at a major tournament unless they get an easy draw for the 2006 WC qualifers.
Internazionale
Elo Ratings
Another blow by Wales. Giggs has big passionate to play in the big EURO tourney.
the -Russian Rocket-
Youth Team
Nah. Our president of the football union said in the interview that the suspension (or whatever Giggs will have to face) did not necessarily have to be for the Russia game. Could be later. So don't complain and follow the rules. Don't like something about Russia - report to UEFA and they'll decide.
Either way, too bad it had to be Wales. But Latvia's there, so that's cool...
Jedi Mind Trick
Starting XI
man. i just got home and checked the score just now. i'm actually a little sad...(lol out myself catching feelings over a score) i so wanted wales to advance for ryan giggs...
i feel your pain,ryan giggs.
blah.
i feel your pain,ryan giggs.
blah.
so who was whining that russia can't take giggs on. Evseev can match him, no wonder he plays for Lokomotiv. besides, what if mostovoi elbowed some welsh guy...
I bet u were celebrating when ovchinnikov got his second yellow. and after that, mostovoi.
I think Russia deserved that win. Notice that the russian side barely said anything and you welsh people kept whining about how russia is scared.
well too bad, you lose, I guess u gotta wait for another 50 years to get into a world tournament.
I bet u were celebrating when ovchinnikov got his second yellow. and after that, mostovoi.
I think Russia deserved that win. Notice that the russian side barely said anything and you welsh people kept whining about how russia is scared.
well too bad, you lose, I guess u gotta wait for another 50 years to get into a world tournament.
the -Russian Rocket-
Youth Team
Okay, stop gloating. Russia's a country with population of 140 million of people. Can't really compare with Wales.
It's good that we qualified, but I wouldn't make too much out of it for our own sake.
this is a devastating result without a doubt 
to think during the summer Wales were still hoping to finish top of the group.
they have collapsed ... gave theirselves plenty of hope by bravely getting that draw in Russia .... Only to get knocked out in front of your own fans. must have been a tough night in Wales
to think during the summer Wales were still hoping to finish top of the group.
they have collapsed ... gave theirselves plenty of hope by bravely getting that draw in Russia .... Only to get knocked out in front of your own fans. must have been a tough night in Wales
Dissappointing is the word that sums up the last 6 games we've had in these qualifiers. After winning the first 4 games, confidence was high in the Welsh ranks and we were starting to think that this could be it, we could make it to Euro2004. But then we threw it away. All the games (except for the Italian one) were close affairs and realistically I would have expected, and should have expected, Wales to win at least 2 of their last 4 group games. That would have won us the group, and Italy gave us more than enough chance.
But we threw the group away. Not winning at home isn't a good thing.
Then we got a playoff against Russia. It was going to be a tough tie but it gave Wales a chance, as long as the team wasn't bowled over in Russia.
In Russia we rode our luck at times but I don't think anyone can deny that the draw was hard-earned and deserved. It meant that we had to beat the Russians in Cardiff, an achievable, but not an easy, task.
I was nervous before the game, and it seemed that Toshack was the only pundit with any sense and a sense of realism. The predictions were flying around, and all of them were optimistic and not realistic. It seemed that too many people thought that we'd done the hardest part in Russia and as long as we put in a portion of that effort it would see us through. (I don't think the Welsh players shared that sentiment mind, instead it appeared that the occasion got to some of the more inexperienced players)
It was an even game imo and it could have gone either way. The game started with the Russian National Anthem being booed. I can't ******* stand that sort of disrespect and it ashamed me, and if any Russians are reading I'd like to say that the sentiment is not representative of the true nature of the Welsh and apologise for it if it makes a difference.
As the game got underway Russia were giving Giggs a hard time again, with Evseev trying to wind him up. If there was a player on the pitch that deserved a red card over both ties it was him and it was disappointing that Russia biggest cheat would score the goal that put them through. I don't share the opinion of the poster that said that Evseev subdued Giggs because he could only stop him by fouling him and looked decidedly nervous when Giggs had the ball near him.
Other than that I can't fault the Russians. They defended well and had a couple of chances, but I think that we have to be honest and say that if Wales were a better team we wouldn't have had much difficulty with them. It was an advantage to the Russians that we were missing 2 of our key players, the creative Davies and pacey Bellamy. 2 players with big game experience that would have undoubtedly made big difference to the shape of the match because other than Giggs our total creative spark was nothing. But it's all ifs and buts.
The Russian gameplan worked, stop Hartson. Hartson was a waste of space over the 2 games and we may as well have fielded an inanimate pole to at least create an obstacle to the Russians. Onopko managed to contain him easily. Hartson won very little ball (which is his main job), his first touch let him down when he won the ball, and, if it wasn't his first touch letting him down, his passing was abysmal. I feel harsh slating him as he did well during the group up until his injury, but if the addage that you are only as good as your last performance is anything to go by...
There were a few Welsh players to come out of the match with credit, but those that did were, imo:
Giggs: Russia didn't manage to contain him. Whenever he got the ball you could see the Russians became anxious, and he got forward and looked dangerous. Gave it his all.
Savage: A typically tenacious performance and made the Russians uncomfortable on the ball when he was near. Made some good passes, but it was his effort that stood out.
Speed: Also worked hard and looked like he was controlling the midfield. His passing/choice of pass sometimes let him down but he looked reassured on the ball and tried to help the players with less top-level experience along.
Jones: Solid keeping when needed. Couldn't do much about the goal.
Other than that, these players seemed to carry the others. There wasn't much adventure and penetration in the Welsh game as they seemed contented to hoof it up to Hartson who did f.a., as mentioned, and it was only when Wales went down different routes that it looked promising, but it didn't happen often enough.
Anyway, a dissappointing end to the campaign.
I've said it before but Wales started the group as 4th seeds, and deservedly so which made the draw look very difficult for the team. Finland and Serbia were both useful teams that could beat Italy, but the Italians would be the obvious favourties. At the end of the group it turned out that Wales were the 2nd best team and managed to beat the Italians (which would have been unimaginable 18months ago). It appears that the Welsh team have made a massive amount of progress since Hughes took over and only need to make the last step.
That last step would have to be to trust the defense more and start trying to score as a team. If Wales are to make the necessary improvement there then I can see us offering a real threat to qualification for WC2006, but that's a step that we have to make. We didn't win our last 6 games because we didn't show the adventure of the first 4 games, imo. Nerves perhaps, but we have to get over that.
The hope now is that Wales don't suffer the same fate as happened last time we got close. What is needed is continued, and improved success. We have to give ourselves a qualification chance for every major tournament and not leave it another 10yrs before the next chance.
Congrats to Russia.
But we threw the group away. Not winning at home isn't a good thing.
Then we got a playoff against Russia. It was going to be a tough tie but it gave Wales a chance, as long as the team wasn't bowled over in Russia.
In Russia we rode our luck at times but I don't think anyone can deny that the draw was hard-earned and deserved. It meant that we had to beat the Russians in Cardiff, an achievable, but not an easy, task.
I was nervous before the game, and it seemed that Toshack was the only pundit with any sense and a sense of realism. The predictions were flying around, and all of them were optimistic and not realistic. It seemed that too many people thought that we'd done the hardest part in Russia and as long as we put in a portion of that effort it would see us through. (I don't think the Welsh players shared that sentiment mind, instead it appeared that the occasion got to some of the more inexperienced players)
It was an even game imo and it could have gone either way. The game started with the Russian National Anthem being booed. I can't ******* stand that sort of disrespect and it ashamed me, and if any Russians are reading I'd like to say that the sentiment is not representative of the true nature of the Welsh and apologise for it if it makes a difference.
As the game got underway Russia were giving Giggs a hard time again, with Evseev trying to wind him up. If there was a player on the pitch that deserved a red card over both ties it was him and it was disappointing that Russia biggest cheat would score the goal that put them through. I don't share the opinion of the poster that said that Evseev subdued Giggs because he could only stop him by fouling him and looked decidedly nervous when Giggs had the ball near him.
Other than that I can't fault the Russians. They defended well and had a couple of chances, but I think that we have to be honest and say that if Wales were a better team we wouldn't have had much difficulty with them. It was an advantage to the Russians that we were missing 2 of our key players, the creative Davies and pacey Bellamy. 2 players with big game experience that would have undoubtedly made big difference to the shape of the match because other than Giggs our total creative spark was nothing. But it's all ifs and buts.
The Russian gameplan worked, stop Hartson. Hartson was a waste of space over the 2 games and we may as well have fielded an inanimate pole to at least create an obstacle to the Russians. Onopko managed to contain him easily. Hartson won very little ball (which is his main job), his first touch let him down when he won the ball, and, if it wasn't his first touch letting him down, his passing was abysmal. I feel harsh slating him as he did well during the group up until his injury, but if the addage that you are only as good as your last performance is anything to go by...
There were a few Welsh players to come out of the match with credit, but those that did were, imo:
Giggs: Russia didn't manage to contain him. Whenever he got the ball you could see the Russians became anxious, and he got forward and looked dangerous. Gave it his all.
Savage: A typically tenacious performance and made the Russians uncomfortable on the ball when he was near. Made some good passes, but it was his effort that stood out.
Speed: Also worked hard and looked like he was controlling the midfield. His passing/choice of pass sometimes let him down but he looked reassured on the ball and tried to help the players with less top-level experience along.
Jones: Solid keeping when needed. Couldn't do much about the goal.
Other than that, these players seemed to carry the others. There wasn't much adventure and penetration in the Welsh game as they seemed contented to hoof it up to Hartson who did f.a., as mentioned, and it was only when Wales went down different routes that it looked promising, but it didn't happen often enough.
Anyway, a dissappointing end to the campaign.
I've said it before but Wales started the group as 4th seeds, and deservedly so which made the draw look very difficult for the team. Finland and Serbia were both useful teams that could beat Italy, but the Italians would be the obvious favourties. At the end of the group it turned out that Wales were the 2nd best team and managed to beat the Italians (which would have been unimaginable 18months ago). It appears that the Welsh team have made a massive amount of progress since Hughes took over and only need to make the last step.
That last step would have to be to trust the defense more and start trying to score as a team. If Wales are to make the necessary improvement there then I can see us offering a real threat to qualification for WC2006, but that's a step that we have to make. We didn't win our last 6 games because we didn't show the adventure of the first 4 games, imo. Nerves perhaps, but we have to get over that.
The hope now is that Wales don't suffer the same fate as happened last time we got close. What is needed is continued, and improved success. We have to give ourselves a qualification chance for every major tournament and not leave it another 10yrs before the next chance.
Congrats to Russia.
aka whining.
just like a CL team I know......when you try to change your rhythm during a tournament you inevitably get whacked sooner or later.
Bottomline is Wales' offence hibernated in their final few games, and that's when they needed the inspirational players to produce.
Unfortunately Wales' stars are comparatively inexperienced and.......well, to be honest.....they aren't stars.
It's as simple as that why successful teams win trophies and tournaments, they always have one or two players who can create sunshine in a rainstorm.
Monkee, that's the most intelligent post I've read in this thread so far 
I can't really say who was the aggressor, Evseev or Giggs, but from what I heard from the russians is that it was Giggs. So that makes me conclude that both were at fault.
It's hard for me to believe that, tho, since Evseev plays for a club I have the outmost respect for - the club that earned its name not only in Russia, but also in Europe - Lokomotiv Moscow. But yet again, I didn't see the match, and so when my grandma sends me the tape of the match from Moscow, I'll be able to argue this point.
I don't think Wales really deserved to win the way the played though. They were forcing a draw, their defensive strategy was definitely the only way the stopped Russia from winning the game at home. But in Cadriff, they definitely needed to do something more than that, they needed to score. It opened up a place for the Russians to counter-attack, and that's what they did. I think if Wales was to win, they should've tried to score in Russia and held the score even in Cadriff since they had the whole stadium booing the Russian players as loud as possible(thanks very much for that, btw).
Besides, Wales came out with the same lineup as they did in Russia, while the Russian side had many changes. And if you're saying that Wales missing its 2 key players was an advantage to Russia, think about this. We lost the most experienced keeper in Russia, who's been playing for the national team for ages. Instead we had to put a keeper who never played for the national team before. Imagine what kind of phsycological damage was done right there.
And then we also lost mostovoi, who is still a great player. Obviously, not the one he was 5-6 years ago, but still worthy of his name.
I don't really know the Welsh players, so I can't really say anything about that, but to me it seems that Russia suffered more damage player-wise than Wales. It didn't at home, but it definitely did in Cadriff.
And to add to that, Russia had the disadvantage due to the fact that its season ended a few weeks ago, and a lot of these players aren't in the best shape (which can obviously be seen from the game). This isn't the team that beat switzerland 4-1.
Overall, I think that wales was too sure that Russia was underestimating them. The coach kept saying how they're going to show Russia who's the best and that Russia didn't do Carlos trying to analyze their games from before. Once they tied Russia at home it seemed exactly so. But it wasn't really. I think there were definite mistakes in the lineup in Moscow, and that they were fixed in Cadriff.
Maybe Russia did underestimate Wales their first game, but they definitely didn't the second game, and to me it seemed like Wales was already celebrating its place in Portugal.
But good luck to Wales. I know how it hurts to be so close and not get there. Russia was there too, many times. I'm just hoping that Russian soccer will continue to strive. Now that Euro 2004 qualifiers are over, my heart is with Loko as it progresses through the CL.
I can't really say who was the aggressor, Evseev or Giggs, but from what I heard from the russians is that it was Giggs. So that makes me conclude that both were at fault.
It's hard for me to believe that, tho, since Evseev plays for a club I have the outmost respect for - the club that earned its name not only in Russia, but also in Europe - Lokomotiv Moscow. But yet again, I didn't see the match, and so when my grandma sends me the tape of the match from Moscow, I'll be able to argue this point.
I don't think Wales really deserved to win the way the played though. They were forcing a draw, their defensive strategy was definitely the only way the stopped Russia from winning the game at home. But in Cadriff, they definitely needed to do something more than that, they needed to score. It opened up a place for the Russians to counter-attack, and that's what they did. I think if Wales was to win, they should've tried to score in Russia and held the score even in Cadriff since they had the whole stadium booing the Russian players as loud as possible(thanks very much for that, btw).
Besides, Wales came out with the same lineup as they did in Russia, while the Russian side had many changes. And if you're saying that Wales missing its 2 key players was an advantage to Russia, think about this. We lost the most experienced keeper in Russia, who's been playing for the national team for ages. Instead we had to put a keeper who never played for the national team before. Imagine what kind of phsycological damage was done right there.
And then we also lost mostovoi, who is still a great player. Obviously, not the one he was 5-6 years ago, but still worthy of his name.
I don't really know the Welsh players, so I can't really say anything about that, but to me it seems that Russia suffered more damage player-wise than Wales. It didn't at home, but it definitely did in Cadriff.
And to add to that, Russia had the disadvantage due to the fact that its season ended a few weeks ago, and a lot of these players aren't in the best shape (which can obviously be seen from the game). This isn't the team that beat switzerland 4-1.
Overall, I think that wales was too sure that Russia was underestimating them. The coach kept saying how they're going to show Russia who's the best and that Russia didn't do Carlos trying to analyze their games from before. Once they tied Russia at home it seemed exactly so. But it wasn't really. I think there were definite mistakes in the lineup in Moscow, and that they were fixed in Cadriff.
Maybe Russia did underestimate Wales their first game, but they definitely didn't the second game, and to me it seemed like Wales was already celebrating its place in Portugal.
But good luck to Wales. I know how it hurts to be so close and not get there. Russia was there too, many times. I'm just hoping that Russian soccer will continue to strive. Now that Euro 2004 qualifiers are over, my heart is with Loko as it progresses through the CL.
the -Russian Rocket-
Youth Team
Eh. It's fine. If someone gets insulted because of this then he/she needs to go and hug a tree. Respect - disrespect, wtf does matter. Just a typical situation in football.
PS. That stadium looked nice on TV, though... We have a couple of arenas that are just as good, but we're also one of the biggest nations in the world. Kinda frustrating.