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Mandieta6;3764090 said:You can think about them, but you can't then try to pass off that intellectual process as your emotional reaction to the stimulus.
And I don't want to hang out with you, you'll steal my girlfriend with a balloon.
ShiftyPowers;3764179 said:I make fun of people for every way in which they are different from me. It is part of being a guy IMO.
ShiftyPowers;3764179 said:I make fun of people for every way in which they are different from me. It is part of being a guy IMO.
No, I said it's an intellectual reaction and that even if it affects my emotional response thereafter, it is still based on the intellectual process. You can react emotionally to a book but that's not what I'm referring to.Alex;3764211 said:Haven't you and Shifty basically just claimed your emotional, or at least subconscious, reaction to reading is to analyse them in this way? How can you say that's ok for you reading, but not natural for Zlatan with music?
Juventino;3764167 said:I assumed you meant ''bagging'' or ''putting down'' someone's taste for the sake of giving them a hard time because you said you liked to take the extreme opposite on any subject. Like you must think differently than someone else (or the consensus) to make you feel good about yourself or to make you feel like you're an interesting or unique individual or whatever. Clearly I don't know what drives you, but that made it seem random and immature in my mind.
Obviously I do have conversations about my opinions on (popular) arts, but I just don't feel it's for the sake of having the upper hand or proving I have better taste than someone else. I'll just say why this movie has a certain meaning or emotional impact on me and let's talk about it. I can disagree with someone without ''putting them down'' or ''bagging them for their horrible taste'', but that's how I experience it. Forming your own identity and how you're perceived by others is something we all think about and develop, but opinions on popular arts, a world that exists outside of us (unless we actually make art), is something that slowly became more trivial to forming my identity to the outside world. Enjoyment of arts is definitely a huge part for me as well, but not to legitimizating my identity to the outside world.
Juventino;3764167 said:I assumed you meant ''bagging'' or ''putting down'' someone's taste for the sake of giving them a hard time because you said you liked to take the extreme opposite on any subject. Like you must think differently than someone else (or the consensus) to make you feel good about yourself or to make you feel like you're an interesting or unique individual or whatever. Clearly I don't know what drives you, but that made it seem random and immature in my mind.
Obviously I do have conversations about my opinions on (popular) arts, but I just don't feel it's for the sake of having the upper hand or proving I have better taste than someone else. I'll just say why this movie has a certain meaning or emotional impact on me and let's talk about it. I can disagree with someone without ''putting them down'' or ''bagging them for their horrible taste'', but that's how I experience it. Forming your own identity and how you're perceived by others is something we all think about and develop, but opinions on popular arts, a world that exists outside of us (unless we actually make art), is something that slowly became more trivial to forming my identity to the outside world. Enjoyment of arts is definitely a huge part for me as well, but not to legitimizating my identity to the outside world.
I think you're playing down the consciousness of the split. It's a fact that some people are naturally more logic driven decision makers, and some more emotional. This isn't a conscious choice. I also think what you're referring to isn't whether a reaction is emotionally or rationally driven, but whether it's automatic or not. You seem to be suggesting that only emotional reactions are automatic and that's simply not true.Mandieta6;3764339 said:Emotion and reason and related insofar as one is usually subjugated to the other. I personally find it odd that people can allow external factors make them place reason ocer emotion when it comes to sensory stimuli like music or food. I get appreciating a song more because it ia original, but what I'm understandung is that if Zlatan had to listen to one of two songs, one of which he is inherently more drawn to but is less original, hr would choose the other.
I maintain that reading isn't the same because it isn'y sensory. Emotional yes, sensory no.
Mandieta6;3764388 said:Explain how a rational response can be automatic because to me it sounds oxymoronic.
Yeah, all right. I probably had the tone you meant wrong in in my mind, so I associated it with a different attitude or (more serious) means of showing identity. Of course there is more to a conversation and friendship than banter about pop culture, although when I do quickly realize someone isn't really seriously interested in music, movies or anything it does seem very boring for small talk.Mandieta6;3764335 said:You assumed wrong. That is totally wrong and I dont even understand how you reached that conclusion.
Who said I talk to people about these things to show superiority? Banter is for fun, dude. I don't know why you think it hs anything to do with forming ones identity.
I honestly don't know where you're coming from but it seems like a pretty boring place.
Alex;3764402 said:That's because you're someone who thinks emotionally.
My brain doesn't work that way. The first thing that comes to my mind is very often the rational or logical response.
I can't explain how it happens, that's just how my brain works. If you don't understand that other people's minds work differently than yours, perhaps that's the issue here. You're close minded.
I see someone making an emotional decision, and the first thing that pops into my head is "why?" when the rational/logical answer seems so clear to me. This happens when I read books or watch movies too. I often hate American comedies for exactly this reason - the characters just make ridiculous decisions and I can't enjoy the movie.
Mandieta6;3764491 said:You can't know the composer's intentions before reading or hearing about the composer's intentions, so no, although I never suggested that someone like Zlatan couldn't notice things in music that I was unable to. I'm saying that his intellectual reaction to a song cannot precede his sensory reaction. No one can do that with anything. You're constantly relating music to books but I don't think they're as closely linked, in terms of what we're discussing, as you seem to think. The closest things are art or gastronomy. You can appreciate someone's cooking, you can appreciate someone's skill, you can condition yourself and alter your preferences based on your knowledge and experience, but you cannot override the objective response to: is this tasty or is this aesthetically appealing to me. Or, in other words, in a blind test, in which your previous knowledge is useless in determining something's worth, you will react through your senses first and then rationalise a different response. Once you can make use of your knowledge or discover new things about it, your body could react differently, but none of that changes your initial reaction. To say that someone can logically react to a sensory stimulus ignores entire fields of biological science. You either react naturally or condition yourself to react differently, but there is no thought in a gut reaction.