Messi > Robinho?

[pede54]

I'm not defending cheating, once again. About it being a normal thing on football, that's not a matter of acceptance or anything else, it's reality mate. **** happens everywhere and it happens on football. The fact i acknowledge it to exist doesnt mean i tolerate it. But i cant do anything about it, i'm a mere fan. Referees are blind, FIFA is crap and we can just moan and nothing else.

Yeah i guess so.....f.u.c.king frustating though aint it?

Good points made there by Shokz....the circumstances count for a lot.As Socrates said,all three of these guys are exciting to watch so i guess we look forward to the World Cup when we can witness the things they can do.

 

[Lean]

Whilst it's easy for us to say Messi, don't forget that Messi has been living in Barcelona for five years, is settled, and has been intergrated into a team that not only does it look good enough to win back to back Championships or the European Cup, but could probably mop the floor with even Brazil, whereas Robinho has only been in Spain for a few months, has joined a team in transition, and will need time to settle.

probably been said, just can't be arsed looking at all replies

Yea, been said a couple of times but no prob. That's exactly what happens : you've got a guy playing for a team in spectacular form with the best player in the World side by side. This guy has also been in the country he plays for 5 years, on the same club, he knows where are the holes in the grass at Camp Nou.

Then you've got a foreigner, signed as the salvation, for 20 million Euros, skinny, with no pre-season, playing on a team on crap form, out of position with a manager who has lost it all. Who would you expect to perform?

 

[Axolote]

So, dont sing him as the salvation and dont pay 30 million dollars, and dont give him the number 10 shirt, and dont put him in the starting team if he is not ready...

They might burn Robinho for good...may he now thinks he is not as good as he was or as everyone told him he was...

Rijkaard did everything Luxemburro didnt...he took messi very slow, probably messi did a few pre-seasons with the first team before this season...

And just remember all that messi didnt do a long preseason and didnt had long vacations this year...in january he played the sudamericano U-20 where he was named MVP, and in june he played the U-20 WC, where he again was named MVP...


And to finish, just look what Messi do in the games...you have to be blind to not realize he is something different...and think that he sourranded by players at their peak Etoo, Dinho, Deco, Xavi...i think he can learn a lot...Barca is playing great football if Pekerman can adjust our NT like Rijkaard did, just think Riquelme, Saviola, Tevez, Aimar, Crespo, Lucho...Messi could prove the same in the WC...

 

[Dream Team]

Yea, been said a couple of times but no prob. That's exactly what happens : you've got a guy playing for a team in spectacular form with the best player in the World side by side. This guy has also been in the country he plays for 5 years, on the same club, he knows where are the holes in the grass at Camp Nou.

Then you've got a foreigner, signed as the salvation, for 20 million Euros, skinny, with no pre-season, playing on a team on crap form, out of position with a manager who has lost it all. Who would you expect to perform?

It's not that easy.

The Miniestadi is good for 2ª division or 2ªB, but it's nothing compared to the Camp Nou. Messi is 18 years old, his experience is some games in 2ªB and an U-20 tournament. It's easy to play in Barça now, but it's not easy to be a starter and play at the level of the best. He doesn't have the pressure of a €25m pricetag but in Barça there's always pressure. He played at Santiago Bernabeu and he was a key player in the first goal. 78000 Madrid fans in the stadium. People and media talk about that game one month before and 2 weeks later. There's more pressure only in a final and I don't think there's a big difference. The right wing is not even his natural position but that has not been an obstacle for him to show his talent.

 

[Help?]

Rijkaard did everything Luxemburro didnt...he took messi very slow, probably messi did a few pre-seasons with the first team before this season...

Is that why the moment Messi was cleared to play in La Liga, he was put straight into the first team? In another words, it wasn't Rijkaard's choice not to play Messi in the first team last season.

and think that he sourranded by players at their peak Etoo, Dinho, Deco, Xavi...

That's what we have all been saying all along.

 

[Dream Team]

Is that why the moment Messi was cleared to play in La Liga, he was put straight into the first team? In another words, it wasn't Rijkaard's choice not to play Messi in the first team last season.

When Messi started a game and the press hyped him, the next game Rijkaard didn't play him or he just played the last 20 minutes.

Messi played last season some minutes in about 4 games. He scored two goals but a ref disallowed one of them. He became the youngest player who has ever played for Barça, 17yo.

You're learning a lot lately.

 

[Socrates]

Real's Robinho asks fans to be patient

Robinho says he is trying hard to adapt to life at Real Madrid and fans should be patient with him after a tough start to the Brazilian forward's career in Spain.

The 21-year-old international, hailed as Real's most exciting new signing when he joined for $30 million from Santos in August, has come under fire from fans after failing to live up to expectations.

"The pressure is something you have to expect at Real," Robinho told a news conference on Tuesday.

"I have to work hard and deliver on the pitch, though it has been hard with injuries and suspensions in the side."

"It has also been difficult playing as a lone striker because I am more used to playing in a slightly withdrawn position, but I am trying hard to adapt."

"The fans have to be patient. I have a lot to give them."

Robinho made an impressive debut, coming on as a substitute to set up the winner in Real's 2-1 victory over Cadiz in the first game of the season, but his confidence has faded and his mesmerizing skills have shone only fitfully.

Coach Vanderlei Luxemburgo tried to help him adjust to the Primera Liga by using him sparingly at first, but a spate of first-team injuries has thrust him into regular action.

With Raul, Ronaldo and Julio Baptista sidelined, Robinho has been the only recognised frontman, but two goals in 13 league and five Champions League appearances tells its own story.

Since the 3-0 drubbing by arch-rivals Barcelona 10 days ago, fans have criticised the player they expected to dazzle.

"He needs to remain calm and to play the way he knows how to because he is a great player. No one forgets how to play," compatriot Baptista told Tuesday's sports daily Marca.

"There are still many situations which are new to him. It should be remembered it is his first season in Spain and in the Champions League."

"He feels a heavy responsibility on him because Real is a famous club that is expected to win all the time. Also, our opponents look to play the game of their lives when they play us. It is tough for him."

"He is adapting but without Ronaldo and Raul it could be that he feels even more pressure."

Real vice-president Emilio Butragueno believes the return of midfielder Zinedine Zidane is key to unlocking his talents.

"We have total confidence in him," said Butragueno.

"All the injuries we have suffered have forced him into a side which is not doing well at the moment. But I am sure he will triumph here."

Sixth-placed Real are at home to Getafe, eighth in the table, on Saturday.
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Im sure he will start doing better with Ronaldo beside him.

 

[Help?]

When Messi started a game and the press hyped him, the next game Rijkaard didn't play him or he just played the last 20 minutes.

Messi played last season some minutes in about 4 games. He scored two goals but a ref disallowed one of them. He became the youngest player who has ever played for Barça, 17yo.

You're learning a lot lately.

So, it was the press then that gave Messi a break from your words.

Messi played last season in Champions League, not La Liga, which again shows that Rijkaard didn't really put him into the team slowly like Axolote said. And your fact that he is the youngest ever player to play for Barca shows that he was put into the team as soon as he was on the level of other professionals. Also he is the youngest ever to play because players aren't allowed in La Liga at the age of 17, so it's not much of a bragging fact.

 

[Dream Team]

So, it was the press then that gave Messi a break from your words.

Messi played last season in Champions League, not La Liga, which again shows that Rijkaard didn't really put him into the team slowly like Axolote said. And your fact that he is the youngest ever player to play for Barca shows that he was put into the team as soon as he was on the level of other professionals. Also he is the youngest ever to play because players aren't allowed in La Liga at the age of 17, so it's not much of a bragging fact.

No, the press and the fans always wanted Messi to play. Rijkaard gave him a break by not playing him.

You're completely wrong again. 17 years old are allowed, 15 too.

Look who scored the second goal in this match.

http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/envivos/2005/04/2582_index.html

Surprise..

For the record, Albacete are no European team.

You can also see the disallowed goal in the 89th minute and also that he entered the pitch in the 86th minute.

 

[Help?]

Ahhh, i see. I messed up the age restriction with the 3 eligible foreigners allowed. Still, why couldn't Pique play for Barca then?








And you can't deny that it's either to perform well in a team that is playing great in every position, compared to a team that is struggling in pretty much every position. Not that i am saying that Robinho's better than Messi. I never rated Robinho high anyways.

 

[Dream Team]

Piqué could play for Barça.

Giuly shares minutes with Messi but he doesn't look as good as Messi. When Messi gets the ball on midfield and reaches the box after dribbling one or two defenders, it's not because Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Xavi or Deco hypnotize the defenders. Messi plays better with Iniesta because he likes to play fast and Iniesta has better first touch than Xavi and Deco. But it's indeed easier for Messi because he always has an option to pass the ball and that gives the player more confidence.

 

[Lean]

It's not that easy.

The Miniestadi is good for 2ª division or 2ªB, but it's nothing compared to the Camp Nou. Messi is 18 years old, his experience is some games in 2ªB and an U-20 tournament. It's easy to play in Barça now, but it's not easy to be a starter and play at the level of the best. He doesn't have the pressure of a €25m pricetag but in Barça there's always pressure. He played at Santiago Bernabeu and he was a key player in the first goal. 78000 Madrid fans in the stadium. People and media talk about that game one month before and 2 weeks later. There's more pressure only in a final and I don't think there's a big difference. The right wing is not even his natural position but that has not been an obstacle for him to show his talent.

Yea, agreed. He's more used to the enviroment though. And the sum of all things is more, well, favorable for Messi, than for Robinho i guess. Luxemburgo is burning him game by game.

Guess i made it sound easier than it is for Messi though.

 

[aytacyolas]

Robinho is total crap.

 

[Lean]

Lies.

 

[Axolote]

Piqué could play for Barça.

Giuly shares minutes with Messi but he doesn't look as good as Messi. When Messi gets the ball on midfield and reaches the box after dribbling one or two defenders, it's not because Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Xavi or Deco hypnotize the defenders. Messi plays better with Iniesta because he likes to play fast and Iniesta has better first touch than Xavi and Deco. But it's indeed easier for Messi because he always has an option to pass the ball and that gives the player more confidence.

Iniesta is going to be BIG...Barca has future...

Messi is fast, really fast, and he always dribble in a vertical, not to the sides...

And its true, Ronaldinho doesnt help him to dribble, Dinho is on the left and Lio Messi is on the right...te only see each other during the goal celebrations...

 

[Siawash]

Robinho is total crap.

I think you've mistaken you for Robinho, he's class.

 

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

I think you've mistaken you for Robinho, he's class.

ahahah, i was just about to write something like that

altho evaluating a player's ability can often direct to very relative and distinct opinions, some itens, like Robinho's class cannot be discussed!! I mean, the guy is just one of the most skilled players in Europe... he may not be in the form of his life right now, but.... to say that he's a total crap......

 

[Axolote]

Another good/great match by Messi, and another crappy game by Robinho...

This is becoming very constant in La Liga...

Robinho fans will wait him to explode until his late 20s, then they will say, he didnt adapt...

 

[Help?]

Another good/great match by Barcelona, and another crappy game by Real Madrid...

This is becoming very constant in La Liga...

Let me rephrase it... there now looks about right

 

[Axolote]

Let me rephrase it... there now looks about right

Yep, you are right...

But Barca didnt have a great match...Messi was just above average this time...