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Kit Copying

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dioxide

Club Supporter
Im not saying I condone kit copying or condone the theft of someone elses kit by a person to then reproduce as their own, BUT there are several buts involved.

I was accused rightly or wrongly in the past and yes I have used Pedes kits as a guide. theres nothin worse than spendin time on a kit to realise that u have placed somethin in the wrong place and had to go back into it.

U all proach innocnece to kit copying but im pretty sure with a few exceptions that we all do it. Christ id see it as a compliment that someone copied my kits, and also look upon it as good that we have more people gettin interested in making kits for the game. OK so they r copying now, but the skills they learn now will encourage them onto better things.

Ive looked at various kit makers kits and have noticed that there is only so much u can change, if u r makin the same kit.

I mean if pede makes it first what chance does any1 else have of creating a kit that is a)gonna improve the kit b)create a unique style

kits are so similar nowadays and with the exception of collar and possibly badge sizes and line placement there is not gonna be that much difference, if there is then the kits gonna b either total crap, or pedes original kit must have been crap.

I can understand people want to remian unique but surely allowing people to use kits as guides and then those people giving u credit is better than banning people from the forum.
As soon as you post somethin on the net these days theres always someone whos gonna copy it.
but instead of diving off the deep end about it, encourage the kit making but just ask for the recognition. eg if pede says yeh use my kit as a guide but i want a mention, people can make up their own minds about it, it dont take a rocket scientist to suss whos the organ grinder and whos the monkey.

i would think that you would be looking for guys to come thru and make kits with the release upcoming of FIFA etc, as i said theres nothin worse than downloadin a kit and finding out that its pure mince. I think you guys should b encouraging to an extent the influx of people who want to make kits, although as I say, at least get the recognition u deserve by the kit maker mentioning u etc.

in conclusion is there really that much difference in the kits that Curs, pede, Vp, etc make, not really. some make different collars, some use different textures, but at the end of the day the basic layout is the same. ask yourself for example if curs created a kit that was the same as pedes with only a few pixels difference, would u accuse one or the other of copying???

i very much doubt it, but it appears that because someone is not an established member here and they post kits that are similar they are automatically accused of copying

Im not sayin Zhang was right or I was for that matter, but you seem to have this mentality thats hard to explain.

Silencer cracks off at Creature because he posted 1 screenshot of his local team and nothin is said to him about his language, I mention my point and get told to **** off noob by him. now here we are again pickin on a guy(who is probably young, and yes probably did steal pedes kit and copy it, but to be honest is a young guy who we expect to act like an adult )

Ur like a gang, one cracks off the rest feel they need to add their tuppence worth. Does one of you not feel the compulsion to at least try and sort this out responsibly. Pede fair enough just asked the guy to explain, but as i said earlier, there is other ways of dealing with it.

How can u expect people to act and post responsibly if u aint gonna treat them like that. Callin them noobs and banning them or what ever else u do here( i dont really look anymore as im kinda put off by all the grief that occurs here ) is not the way to go about it.

Cue the usual influx of abusive comments from parties concerned.
 

dioxide

Club Supporter
Lol you are pathetic go home crybaby
MODS CLOSE THIS THREAD PLEASE before it gets out of hand

u never change do u, im not even gonna dignify u with a retort to that crap. That comment reeks of what I just said, u cannot use the english vocab properly. U feel threatened or somethin that u have to abuse people constantly

Lol, with stealing and ripping you don't get skills

If as i presume these guys u all have a go at, have limited Photoshop or PSP skills then by copying a kit to an extent they will begin to improve their knowledge of the programs.

As long as I say they give the original kit maker the recognition. What I am sayin is wrong is the fact he copied but did not give pede the recognition by sayin I made this kit, but i used pedes as a guide.

Come a time they will feel confident enough to create somethin on their own without usin a guide.
Not every person who sits at a comp is a genius at using programs etc, but some are willing learners. and rather than shootin them down like our friend silencer does why not to an extent encourage their curiousity, or do u just want to remain the elite band that you are, cause basically thats what it is.
 

Savantaz

Reserve Team
Man you're not making any sence here.

Stealing is stealing, in real life stealing isn't allowed too, same here.

You learn a lot more if you just make your kits yourself, without using anyones kits as a guide.
 

Silencer

Superstar
You are preaching to the wrong choir how many times do i have to say that, but since you got a big plate in front of your head i say it again... Everyone will take my side here if necessary cause most guys know eich other for many years here and this is hard for you to understand cause you want to be a part so very much of this community that you write down smth like this :rolleyes:
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen is what I say and that's the last i have to say about this cause you ARE really pathetic :rolleyes: and making a fool of yourself but........go right ahead if you want :confused:
I tell you this if you keep this up you will NEVER become a part of SG and you will probably get banned in the progress for flaming long lasting members!
 

dioxide

Club Supporter
Everyone will take my side here if necessary cause most guys know eich other

THIS COMMENT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM PREACHING.

as for the other comment about stealing. Its stealing if the author does not know agreed. If however the author gives consent to use his kit as a guide, but be given recognition then where is the harm is this so hard to understand.
AS I SAY ENCOURAGE TO AN EXTENT, but have limitations. dont just shoot them down, all u r doing is killing their obvious enthusiasim to create. The chances are they are young guys eg 12-14 and want to be a part of the crowd etc but by banning them and encouraging Silencers foul mouth towards new members all u r doing is creatin an elitist band.

you want to be a part so very much of this community that you write down smth like this

wrong i dont want to be part of a crowd where someone uses foul language etc to put across a point, or where someone is allowed to abuse a member because his comments are not construed in the proper manner or because he does not have the acceptable communication skills to post responsibly. Not everyone can communicate in word what they mean, and abusing them and callin them noobs etc is hardly the mature and responsible attitude.

And as for makin a fooll of myself, thats only to people who refuse to see tha larger picture. I dont make a fool of myself by abusing people.

Possibly its because u dont have the ability to have a rational debate, or possibly u just feel threatned by people posting their ideas that are out of the norm as u see it.

I have a wider view of things thats all, and im not afraid to post what i think even it is the wrong thing. Its not a bad thing to be wrong u know, u should try it. Thats your major fault me thinks ur afraid of posting and being wrong so u follow the crowd,

only person makin a fool of themselves is you with your attitude towards people on this forum
 

Silencer

Superstar
LOL this is really funny go right ahead i'm having a great laugh here, you are getting more pathetic by the minute :rofl::rofl:

And clearly you don't know me very well cause all the long lasting members here know they can always count on me, i never flame others (unless they got it coming like you ;) and you only read what you want to read and you only hear what you want to hear.
Get a life! byeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

Savantaz

Reserve Team
Man, do you even think ANYONE will give permission to someone to use his kit as a guide. Some work very hard at his kits, they will not just give their design away, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffff :(
 

dioxide

Club Supporter
why not if ur still being given the recognition for it.

as i say people can make up their own minds by themselves who is the grinder and whos the monkey

the long lasting members here know they can always count on me[/qoute]

this maybe the case, just a shame u cant talk civiliy to new members then aint it. as isay easy to follow the crowd, not so easy to stand up and voice an opinion which others see as wrong, or cannot see the wider picture.
 

pede54

Team Captain
well this obviously concerns me so heres my input..............Dioxide i agree with some of the things you say,i have never been tight,when anyone has ever asked me for anything,collars,logos or using my kit as a guide,i have never refused them.....BUT ,they must ask.That is just good manners mate.I also believe that a kit is a kit and there is not a lot of ways you can vary a kit .Thats what it looks like ,so there you have it.What i do object to is someone like Nigel taking my kit,erasing my name on the kit,changing the texture,putting new epl badges on and then posting it and saying "here is my Chelsea new away kit".Now if he would have asked me first i would have said ,yeah use it as a guide but only as a guide,but to take the kit as it is and basically re-post it as his is another matter.This obbsession you have with this "keep outsiders out" mentality ios groundless mate and really it dont exist........you might come to a conclusion like that because of the comments you recieve sometimes but, that is because you seem to believe in "anything goes".It doesn't mate ....its not just a matter of following the rules of the kit forum ,its also a moral issue.I do not like liars or thieves whever i might find them ,and i come here to try to escape from the reality of our ****ty world ,and those are the kind of habits i do not want to see here.Man you can ask as many new guys as you like if i have ever refused them anything.....they will tell you that i try to help them as much as i can.For example a guy at Breamster forums nicked my kit......i gave him a mouthful for it as did others, but then i told him he dont have to steal,if he wants anything i have then he only needs to ask .Now i help him and he is improving.I have never asked for guys to be banned either....as long as i get an apology ,i let the matter drop.The situation is easy to understand for new guys......if you steal a kit you will get severly bollocked......and rightly so.Ask first ...and if a kitmaker says "NO"....thats his perrogative.....personally there is very little i wont help out with.When i first started ,i asked for help too.Sometimes ppl helped ,sometimes they didn't....but i persevered and learned to do my own stuff.......sure i used other kits as a guide but i always asked the kitmaker first...thats the decent and polite thing to do.Also i dont really give a toss if i get a mention for helping out or not......thats not why i help people anyway.
 

dioxide

Club Supporter
well this obviously concerns me so heres my input..............Dioxide i agree with some of the things you say,i have never been tight,when anyone has ever asked me for anything,collars,logos or using my kit as a guide,i have never refused them.....BUT ,they must ask.That is just good manners mate.I also believe that a kit is a kit and there is not a lot of ways you can vary a kit .Thats what it looks like ,so there you have it.What i do object to is someone like Nigel taking my kit,erasing my name on the kit,changing the texture,putting new epl badges on and then posting it and saying "here is my Chelsea new away kit".Now if he would have asked me first i would have said ,yeah use it as a guide but only as a guide,but to take the kit as it is and basically re-post it as his is another matter.This obbsession you have with this "keep outsiders out" mentality ios groundless mate and really it dont exist........you might come to a conclusion like that because of the comments you recieve sometimes but, that is because you seem to believe in "anything goes".It doesn't mate ....its not just a matter of following the rules of the kit forum ,its also a moral issue.I do not like liars or thieves whever i might find them ,and i come here to try to escape from the reality of our ****ty world ,and those are the kind of habits i do not want to see here.Man you can ask as many new guys as you like if i have ever refused them anything.....they will tell you that i try to help them as much as i can.For example a guy at Breamster forums nicked my kit......i gave him a mouthful for it as did others, but then i told him he dont have to steal,if he wants anything i have then he only needs to ask .Now i help him and he is improving.I have never asked for guys to be banned either....as long as i get an apology ,i let the matter drop.The situation is easy to understand for new guys......if you steal a kit you will get severly bollocked......and rightly so.Ask first ...and if a kitmaker says "NO"....thats his perrogative.....personally there is very little i wont help out with.When i first started ,i asked for help too.Sometimes ppl helped ,sometimes they didn't....but i persevered and learned to do my own stuff.......sure i used other kits as a guide but i always asked the kitmaker first...thats the decent and polite thing to do.Also i dont really give a toss if i get a mention for helping out or not......thats not why i help people anyway.


at last someone with the maturity to answer me with some civility.

Maybe i didnt make myself clear enough, but I didnt say I condoned Nigel using ur kit and then stating it was his, thats blatant theft and I agree is totally out of order.
What Im tryin to say is surely there is a way of encoraging their enthusiasim rather than them comin on here and being slated.As you say i dont like liars and thieves either, but i dont expect to come to a forum and be abused because I have the courage to break from the norm and state a view. OK so i might not always be right, but is that an excuse to allow silencer etc to come on and call me crazy etc as I said its easy to follow the crowd, which in my opinion is what Silencer does, lacks the courage of his convictions and uses abuse and verbal slander as tools to hide his very apparent low self esteem.

OK we all know as soon as we post stuff on the net, its gonna be copied fact of life. what I was trying to suggest was the top kit makers eg urself, vp, curs etc allowing these guys to use ur kits as a guide but then obviously being givin the mention u deserve for the help u give. Or as u said, offering tutorials etc on how to create collars etc.

I know savantaz slated me when I said that people wont learn from copying but u would b surprised exactly how much can be learnt from doing this. It not only give u a feel for where to place stuff on the kit, eg sizes etc, but it also helps on how to create curved lines, and other tricks that photoshop has to offer, eg pillow emboss, inner shadow etc.

I know u guys do help people and do offer ur services etc,
as i said previously every1 needs help, as we cant all be geniuses with computer programs, but there obviously has to be limitations.I know that yiou are a helpful guy pede thats not what I was gettin at.

What riles me is this adolescent attitude shown by several of the members here, when some one says or does somethin out of the norm. Not every1 here is an adult, or has the basic talents to communicate into words precisely what they mean yet a few of the more senior members think that its allowed to be abusive etc to these people and that it should be accepted as normal and appropriate behaviour.

Yes i go on about this elitist tag u have made urselves but thats due to as u said some of the comments made by silencer etc. Now again thats my opinion of a guy who I have found to be none other than rude and abusive to new members, granted he could be a totally different person with u guys, but that coin flips, and for as much as u may think im a spare prick, other people may think differently.

I dont think telling people to piss off, or noob bashing is appropriate behaviour for a so called respected member of the board who im told is old enough to know better

All im sayin is maybe all the kit makers should pull together and work on stuff together and teach these people who are enthusiastic to learn. Post tutorials etc on how to create a collar, or how to draw a curved line, then maybe there wont be so much need to steal some ones kits. they will then be sayin thats crap i could do better :p

I posted an opinion nothing more, and yet as per normal, silencer dived in with this abusiove remarks just as he did before in the ss fiasco. we dont all start out as respected posters it takes time to build up a rapport etc, but I feel that on occasion in here new posters r not givin the luxury of makin friendships.
they make a kit or try to, and low and behold its slightly similar. as i said previously theres only so much u can do to a kit and on occasion it will look similar. thats not to say the person copied it, but it seems here the bandwagon rolls, and all it takes is 1 person to say its a copy and wahey the gang follows suit. before u know it the poor sod is banned and made a fool of.

Nigel deserved his talking too, but i have noticed other people banned who i felt were not guilty of it.

as i said originally pede, would people b so quick to criticise if any of u guys created kits that were very similar to each others.??

most of the kits u guys make r similar, with the difference in collar, texture or size of badges etc. a kits a kit end of the day, and I think the more people we have makin them, the better the game is gonna be.
 

dioxide

Club Supporter
im a journalist what can i say, were taught to write and ellaborate. cant always explain in 1 sentence exactly what u mean.

and forums are for discussions as well as posting kits

people may not agree in some points, but can discuss their divergences, and try to undeestand others people views but obviously in this case, that aint gonna happen

Im a noob, and a saddo who needs to get a life obviously according to some of you. but is that because u think my ideas are totally wrong or because you fail to interpret exactly what I am sayin.

its funny how every time i post that because u cannot be arsed reading or discussing the issue, u post hostility, ( pede being the exception) he posted with maturity and civility.
 

Who cares

Banned [Multiple Accounts]
Life Ban
OK that does it... I'm usually only following this forum but I never posted. Well I really need to say something now!

First, I don't know why you guys(most of you anyway) are attacking Dioxide. He's got a point and a good one. He said that it's wrong to steal and that the original maker would deserve a mentioning, BUT he's right about learning by using work from others. But that debate I believe is over and is not a reason why I'm posting this.

The reason is one person here and that's Silencer. I know he'll flame me for that as he is flaming every other noob coming here. First, Dioxide was right in some other thread that these forums are run by people with double standards(sorry admins, ban me for this if you want I couldn't care less). You can prove me otherwise by immediately ban Silencer. And why? Want a reason? No problem ... here is what I got in 2 minutes in 2 threads I was following lately (all these were written by Silencer by the way) :

Hold on pal Stevenage fan or not.
You are not allowed to take any ss here without permission from Pete and i am the ONLY one making ss of ALL his kits with permission so these are your first and your last ss here capiche!
Don't post any more ss in this thread and btw they suck the quality is really bad and that rubs off on me

YOU decided to take ss wtffffff you have to have permission by him or me and the answer is N O.
Later we established that the rules Silencer was refering to were non existent.

nOOb has a reading prb too
Sounds like an insult to me...

STFU nOOb no one asked for your opinion
ditto...

dumbass skull nOOb
ditto...

I ******* hate nOObs btw and you are one
again...

i was here when u were in diapers little boy
and again... doesn't seem like that statement is true, as you sound like you are still wearing them(diapers that is) Silencer...

better think who your messing with here and think hard or i will have your ass kicked permanently here
The only guy that should be kicked out of here, based on the rules, is you.

shows what a dumbass u are nOOb
another insult. Want more?

Go play with ur toys now and run along little boy
More?

shows what a dumbass u are nOOb
another insults. Want more?

Why don't u shut the f up finally dioxide, if i want a lecture i ask for one dumbass!
I'm getting tired of this, but let us look at another one, just for a good measure ok?

Lol you are pathetic go home crybaby
here...

Now I see things this way. Either administrators ban Silencer RIGHT AWAY(but they won't do that) or these forums are exactly what Dioxide said they are.

And for you mr. Silencer. Ever heard of "Give as much respect as you receive it?"... guess not. You are nothing but a little elite-cool-member-wanna-be... the minute any of the n00bs make a mistake you are tossing insults toward his/her way. Check your posts and say it isn't so. You can flame me as much as you can, as I couldn't care less. I got another proposition for you though, if you are a man, then admit you were wrong and apologize to all the people you insulted. But you won't do that, because it wouldn't seem like a cool thing to do right?
 

Savantaz

Reserve Team
Originally posted by dioxide
..I think the more people we have makin them, the better the game is gonna be.

But if anyone actually re-posts someone's kit, thats no addition, is it?
 

dioxide

Club Supporter
ok m8 r u actually reading thru whats posted here, or reading what suits so that it ties in with ur opinion.

i did say that to post someones elses kit is wrong and nigel shouldnt have done that.

what i also said was what harm is there if u let these noobs as u refer to them use the kits as guides so that they can learn

eg placement, texture, badge size, curved lines, pillow emboss etc etc.

AS LONG AS THE ORIGINAL KIT MAKER WAS GIVEN A MENTION IF THEY WERE TO POST UP THE COPIED WORK!

better still post tutorials on how to do stuff, eg collars etc.
pretty plain and simple if u ask me, but then again its easier to just plain insult people or shoot them down. rather than encourage their obvious enthusiasim.
its a shame some dont follow pedes example of helping. or posting with a bit of civility.
 

curswine

Starting XI
In my opinion, there should be a thread where people who are new to kit making should be able to post their problems they are having whether it be how to make curved lines, or adding mesh etc. and they get advice from some of the best kitmakers as to how they achieve their effects.

Then their would be no excuse for plagarism of any sort, of course i have used other peoples kits to draw lines before but those were kits I never published or showed anyone because none of the true work (curving of lines, pracement of mesh etc.) was my own. The only kits it is acceptable to plagarise from and publish them anywhere are the kits from EA, to get collar sizes right.

I remember when i started out at the TCM forums making kits, I had to ask advice from various people on different things such as mesh, curved lines etc. so if there was such a thread here I would be happy to give out my expertise but I draw the line at people copying from my kits and posting them here or anyother place.
 
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