hristostoichkov
Reserve Team
After killing Saddam Hussein who'll be the leader of the new government and all of Iraq's oil?
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Iraq's pool
- Thread starter hristostoichkov
- Start date
V
voetballiefhebb
Guest
They won't find Saddam, let alone kill him.
V
voetballiefhebb
Guest
Hello.
Only since 20 to 10.
V
voetballiefhebb
Guest
Not even 24 hours. I still find it hard to believe how SG bans racism, yet they allow homophobic comments. That's neither here nor there and you know which thread to add your 2 cents in.
My post count was never slashed. Lior got it wrong by 300 due to false information from one certiain Chelsea supporter named Sir_Didier_Drogba.
I've said it before, and I'll say it once again. Posts prove nothing. I'm not bothered.To be honest, I think Lior is just using me to conduct the others for the CM site
hristostoichkov
Reserve Team
So you'd better hide.
Originally posted by voetballiefhebb
Not even 24 hours. I still find it hard to believe how SG bans racism, yet they allow homophobic comments. That's neither here nor there and you know which thread to add your 2 cents in.
My post count was never slashed. Lior got it wrong by 300 due to false information from one certiain Chelsea supporter named Sir_Didier_Drogba.
If you don't like the rules, just email Matt in private, is it that hard?
V
voetballiefhebb
Guest
I've got Matt and Lior on my MSN.
Where do you think the "Miss-High school" thread went?
"My high school is gay" followed up by about 8 quotes of "Gay this", "Gay that". Was it acceptable? No. Was it deleted? You bet.
If Matt deletes it agreeing it is unacceptable, why should a moderator and admin (Not naming names but they know who they are) post this?
If you would like or anybody else for that matter like to carry this on go to the thread below and let's stop hijacking threads.
http://www.soccergaming.tv/showthread.php?threadid=65207&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
Where do you think the "Miss-High school" thread went?
"My high school is gay" followed up by about 8 quotes of "Gay this", "Gay that". Was it acceptable? No. Was it deleted? You bet.
If Matt deletes it agreeing it is unacceptable, why should a moderator and admin (Not naming names but they know who they are) post this?
If you would like or anybody else for that matter like to carry this on go to the thread below and let's stop hijacking threads.
http://www.soccergaming.tv/showthread.php?threadid=65207&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
Iraq's new 'king'..
From the Independent
Jay Garner: The US general waiting to replace Saddam
By Paul Vallely
05 April 2003
General Jay Garner, being a military man, will have had his bag packed for some time now. Any day now he'll be stuffing in his toothbrush and heading for Baghdad. Garner, according to the media, has various titles-in-waiting. Before too long he will be – as your preference dictates – King, Regent, Viceroy, Pro-consul or President-designate of Iraq.
His official title is more prosaic. He is director of the Pentagon's new Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for Iraq. Just as soon as the US-led forces have control of Baghdad, Garner will move in as the man in charge of rebuilding the country. Until a new Iraqi leader is selected, he will govern 24 million Iraqis.
For the past few weeks, Garner and his team have been holed up, with their gas masks, in a seaside hotel in Kuwait City. But he has been in the job – planning – since January when President Bush summoned the 64-year-old ex-soldier from his comfortable retirement home in the moneyed enclave on the lakes just north of Disney World in the Florida magnolias, barely a mile from where Tiger Woods lives.
On the face of it, his is a good appointment. The last time Jay Garner was in Iraq the people didn't want him to leave. Twelve years ago, after the first Gulf War, he was given the task of feeding and protecting Kurdish refugees in northern Iraq. Three months on, when the time came to leave – and Garner was the last man to cross over the river into Turkey after watching the US flag lowered – several thousand Kurds briefly held up the withdrawal. The refugees hoisted him on their shoulders like a sports hero. Back in Washington crayoned pictures by Kurdish children hang neatly framed on his office walls.
He was good at more than just the practical aspects of the job. Garner managed to coax thousands of Kurds from the mountains whence they had fled to escape Saddam. He faced down groups of Kurdish guerrillas, managed to talk his way out of a number of tight spots and freed up the experts to get on with their job. He is a "make-it-happen guy", in the words of a fellow retired general, Ted Stroup, who has worked with Garner for decades. "He is," said the head of the UN development agency, Mark Malloch Brown, "a highly competent administrator and logistician."
He will need to be. Garner is stepping into what some have called "the toughest job on earth". He will not just have to distribute food and medicine and provide shelter for large numbers of displaced families. There will be homes, schools, offices and telephone exchanges to rebuild. But more than that, he will be responsible for purging the nation of Baath party loyalists at every level and preparing the way for democracy. And he will do so under pressure from the world's politicians, aid workers and a wide range of domestic and expatriate groups, all with widely diverging agendas. It is, by anybody's standards, a big job.
To make things more difficult Jay Garner turns out to be a controversial character, in a number of respects. First is his status as an arms trader, and one whose firm supplied the military technology responsible for demolishing the country he is to set about rebuilding. An investigation by the San Francisco Chronicle two months ago revealed that the former three-star general – and a friend of Donald Rumsfeld, the contentious US Defence Secretary – was, until he took up his new post, president of the defence contractor SY Coleman, which specialises in missile systems. These include the Patriots so heavily used in Iraq and the Arrow defence system, which has been deployed in Israel. The Jewish connection we will come to later.
A row has blown up, both in the US and internationally, of such force that the Pentagon has been forced to issue a statement saying this does not constitute a conflict of interest. All very embarrassing just after another Bush hawk, Richard Perle, was last week forced to resign as chairman of a key defence board over business interests.
Some might argue that his critics are being overconspiratorial. After all, isn't the defence industry the obvious place for a retired general to take up employment? Until his retirement, five years ago, Jay Garner had been a soldier for 38 years. He joined the US Army in the early Sixties and served two tours in Vietnam. He became a specialist in terrorism and missile systems, was a pioneer of battlefield lasers and predicted that one day – though evidently not yet – national leaders will fight out virtual wars before they decide whether to go to war.
In the first Gulf War his job was to deploy the Patriot missiles protecting Israelis against Iraqi Scuds. He afterwards told a sceptical Congress that the Patriot was effective, though defence officials later pronounced it a dud. (The Patriots used in the present war have been much improved.) But Garner rose to be commanding general of the Army's Space and Strategic Defense Command – part of the Star Wars programme begun by Ronald Reagan – and successfully walked a delicate line between Republican Star Wars supporters in Congress and his doubtful bosses in the Clinton administration.
Later, as Assistant Vice Chief of Staff, he was the regular Army's point man in the bitter budget battles of the late 1990s. "We all had our backs against the wall," recalled Major-General Robert Scales, now retired, who worked for Garner. "He was tenacious, but there was never any duplicity in anything he ever did."
After retirement – in 1997, at the rank of lieutenant-general – he remained a player, joining SY Coleman and serving on a presidential panel on space and missile threats that was chaired by Donald Rumsfeld. He remained a forward thinker. After 11 September he called for a redesign of reserve forces so that military police, medics, and other specialists could better handle the consequences of terrorist attacks. He also wanted more undercover agents to infiltrate terrorists' inner circles.
"Unless we go back to the Second World War where we didn't care who we killed," Garner said, "soldiers and Marines will have to be trained more intensively and broadly in the stealthy and dangerous skills of finding and killing terrorists who would do America harm."
All of which background, his critics say, makes him unsuitable for a job of post-war reconciliation. Giving a defence contractor, partly responsible for the destruction, the mandate for rebuilding and humanitarian aid seems, at the very least, insensitive. "This is a lovely example of our indifference to the people of Iraq," said Professor David Kirp, a specialist on business ethics at Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy. "It truly bespeaks a lack of serious thinking on the administration's part."
It is not the only problem. In 2000 General Garner went on what seems to have been a routine 10-day freebie to Israel, organised by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, an organisation striving "to inform the American defence and foreign affairs community about the important role Israel can and does play in bolstering democratic interests in the the Middle East".
To make matters worse, Garner then backed a statement by the group praising the Israeli Army for showing what it called "remarkable restraint" when dealing with the Palestinian uprising. "A strong Israel is an asset that American military planners and political leaders can rely on," it said. Garner fans say that the general does not share the extreme right-wing views of the other arch hawks now running the Pentagon – including Perle, Rumsfeld, Donald Wolfowitz and Dick Cheney, George Bush's Vice-President. But many hold him guilty by association.
They say that his has been a key voice in controversial defence policies, such as the undermining of the 1972 anti-ballistic missile treaty; and that he will happily implement what is likely to be one of the first decisions of a new Iraqi government – recognising the state of Israel.
What is unclear is where Garner stands in the row between the US State Department and the Pentagon over who should run post-war Iraq. Colin Powell, the Secretary of State, wants the US military administration to give way, as soon as is practicable, to the UN. Donald Rumsfeld wants to retain US control as part of a wider plan to reshape the political landscape of the Middle East in America's interests; UN role, but not UN rule, is his soundbite. One of the battlegrounds for this dispute is over the make-up of Garner's staff.
The State Department drew up an eight-person team to help run the 23 ministries under Garner's control. Rumsfeld rejected the list, saying the individuals were "too low-profile and bureaucratic". The eight, whom Garner had put through security and training in preparation for departure for Kuwait last week, were at the last minute told to "stand down". Rumsfeld wants hardliners such as the former CIA director R James Woolsey instead. He has already put one of his loyalists, the Undersecretary of Defence Douglas J Feith, in as Garner's deputy – though Garner has, apparently, successfully appointed (to the dismay of the neo-conservatives) some decidedly unhawkish State Department officials at a lower level in his office.
Now the fight is on over which Iraqi advisers to appoint. The Pentagon is pushing Ahmed Chalabi, a US-educated former banker with a conviction for fraud in Jordan, who is leader of the controversial exiled Iraqi National Congress. Rumsfeld and company see him as a known quantity who would be malleable in an ambitious regional reshuffling of alliances, with Iraq emerging as a pillar of US policy in the region. The State Department view is that Chalabi would not be welcome in several Middle East countries.
The bickering over plans and personnel is said to have frustrated Garner to the point where, according to the Los Angeles Times, he told some associates that he had contemplated quitting. Garner himself is remaining tight-lipped, to the point where The New York Times called his operation "obsessively secret". It will not be long now, it seems, before events force him to put his cards on the table.
From the Independent
Jay Garner: The US general waiting to replace Saddam
By Paul Vallely
05 April 2003
General Jay Garner, being a military man, will have had his bag packed for some time now. Any day now he'll be stuffing in his toothbrush and heading for Baghdad. Garner, according to the media, has various titles-in-waiting. Before too long he will be – as your preference dictates – King, Regent, Viceroy, Pro-consul or President-designate of Iraq.
His official title is more prosaic. He is director of the Pentagon's new Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for Iraq. Just as soon as the US-led forces have control of Baghdad, Garner will move in as the man in charge of rebuilding the country. Until a new Iraqi leader is selected, he will govern 24 million Iraqis.
For the past few weeks, Garner and his team have been holed up, with their gas masks, in a seaside hotel in Kuwait City. But he has been in the job – planning – since January when President Bush summoned the 64-year-old ex-soldier from his comfortable retirement home in the moneyed enclave on the lakes just north of Disney World in the Florida magnolias, barely a mile from where Tiger Woods lives.
On the face of it, his is a good appointment. The last time Jay Garner was in Iraq the people didn't want him to leave. Twelve years ago, after the first Gulf War, he was given the task of feeding and protecting Kurdish refugees in northern Iraq. Three months on, when the time came to leave – and Garner was the last man to cross over the river into Turkey after watching the US flag lowered – several thousand Kurds briefly held up the withdrawal. The refugees hoisted him on their shoulders like a sports hero. Back in Washington crayoned pictures by Kurdish children hang neatly framed on his office walls.
He was good at more than just the practical aspects of the job. Garner managed to coax thousands of Kurds from the mountains whence they had fled to escape Saddam. He faced down groups of Kurdish guerrillas, managed to talk his way out of a number of tight spots and freed up the experts to get on with their job. He is a "make-it-happen guy", in the words of a fellow retired general, Ted Stroup, who has worked with Garner for decades. "He is," said the head of the UN development agency, Mark Malloch Brown, "a highly competent administrator and logistician."
He will need to be. Garner is stepping into what some have called "the toughest job on earth". He will not just have to distribute food and medicine and provide shelter for large numbers of displaced families. There will be homes, schools, offices and telephone exchanges to rebuild. But more than that, he will be responsible for purging the nation of Baath party loyalists at every level and preparing the way for democracy. And he will do so under pressure from the world's politicians, aid workers and a wide range of domestic and expatriate groups, all with widely diverging agendas. It is, by anybody's standards, a big job.
To make things more difficult Jay Garner turns out to be a controversial character, in a number of respects. First is his status as an arms trader, and one whose firm supplied the military technology responsible for demolishing the country he is to set about rebuilding. An investigation by the San Francisco Chronicle two months ago revealed that the former three-star general – and a friend of Donald Rumsfeld, the contentious US Defence Secretary – was, until he took up his new post, president of the defence contractor SY Coleman, which specialises in missile systems. These include the Patriots so heavily used in Iraq and the Arrow defence system, which has been deployed in Israel. The Jewish connection we will come to later.
A row has blown up, both in the US and internationally, of such force that the Pentagon has been forced to issue a statement saying this does not constitute a conflict of interest. All very embarrassing just after another Bush hawk, Richard Perle, was last week forced to resign as chairman of a key defence board over business interests.
Some might argue that his critics are being overconspiratorial. After all, isn't the defence industry the obvious place for a retired general to take up employment? Until his retirement, five years ago, Jay Garner had been a soldier for 38 years. He joined the US Army in the early Sixties and served two tours in Vietnam. He became a specialist in terrorism and missile systems, was a pioneer of battlefield lasers and predicted that one day – though evidently not yet – national leaders will fight out virtual wars before they decide whether to go to war.
In the first Gulf War his job was to deploy the Patriot missiles protecting Israelis against Iraqi Scuds. He afterwards told a sceptical Congress that the Patriot was effective, though defence officials later pronounced it a dud. (The Patriots used in the present war have been much improved.) But Garner rose to be commanding general of the Army's Space and Strategic Defense Command – part of the Star Wars programme begun by Ronald Reagan – and successfully walked a delicate line between Republican Star Wars supporters in Congress and his doubtful bosses in the Clinton administration.
Later, as Assistant Vice Chief of Staff, he was the regular Army's point man in the bitter budget battles of the late 1990s. "We all had our backs against the wall," recalled Major-General Robert Scales, now retired, who worked for Garner. "He was tenacious, but there was never any duplicity in anything he ever did."
After retirement – in 1997, at the rank of lieutenant-general – he remained a player, joining SY Coleman and serving on a presidential panel on space and missile threats that was chaired by Donald Rumsfeld. He remained a forward thinker. After 11 September he called for a redesign of reserve forces so that military police, medics, and other specialists could better handle the consequences of terrorist attacks. He also wanted more undercover agents to infiltrate terrorists' inner circles.
"Unless we go back to the Second World War where we didn't care who we killed," Garner said, "soldiers and Marines will have to be trained more intensively and broadly in the stealthy and dangerous skills of finding and killing terrorists who would do America harm."
All of which background, his critics say, makes him unsuitable for a job of post-war reconciliation. Giving a defence contractor, partly responsible for the destruction, the mandate for rebuilding and humanitarian aid seems, at the very least, insensitive. "This is a lovely example of our indifference to the people of Iraq," said Professor David Kirp, a specialist on business ethics at Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy. "It truly bespeaks a lack of serious thinking on the administration's part."
It is not the only problem. In 2000 General Garner went on what seems to have been a routine 10-day freebie to Israel, organised by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, an organisation striving "to inform the American defence and foreign affairs community about the important role Israel can and does play in bolstering democratic interests in the the Middle East".
To make matters worse, Garner then backed a statement by the group praising the Israeli Army for showing what it called "remarkable restraint" when dealing with the Palestinian uprising. "A strong Israel is an asset that American military planners and political leaders can rely on," it said. Garner fans say that the general does not share the extreme right-wing views of the other arch hawks now running the Pentagon – including Perle, Rumsfeld, Donald Wolfowitz and Dick Cheney, George Bush's Vice-President. But many hold him guilty by association.
They say that his has been a key voice in controversial defence policies, such as the undermining of the 1972 anti-ballistic missile treaty; and that he will happily implement what is likely to be one of the first decisions of a new Iraqi government – recognising the state of Israel.
What is unclear is where Garner stands in the row between the US State Department and the Pentagon over who should run post-war Iraq. Colin Powell, the Secretary of State, wants the US military administration to give way, as soon as is practicable, to the UN. Donald Rumsfeld wants to retain US control as part of a wider plan to reshape the political landscape of the Middle East in America's interests; UN role, but not UN rule, is his soundbite. One of the battlegrounds for this dispute is over the make-up of Garner's staff.
The State Department drew up an eight-person team to help run the 23 ministries under Garner's control. Rumsfeld rejected the list, saying the individuals were "too low-profile and bureaucratic". The eight, whom Garner had put through security and training in preparation for departure for Kuwait last week, were at the last minute told to "stand down". Rumsfeld wants hardliners such as the former CIA director R James Woolsey instead. He has already put one of his loyalists, the Undersecretary of Defence Douglas J Feith, in as Garner's deputy – though Garner has, apparently, successfully appointed (to the dismay of the neo-conservatives) some decidedly unhawkish State Department officials at a lower level in his office.
Now the fight is on over which Iraqi advisers to appoint. The Pentagon is pushing Ahmed Chalabi, a US-educated former banker with a conviction for fraud in Jordan, who is leader of the controversial exiled Iraqi National Congress. Rumsfeld and company see him as a known quantity who would be malleable in an ambitious regional reshuffling of alliances, with Iraq emerging as a pillar of US policy in the region. The State Department view is that Chalabi would not be welcome in several Middle East countries.
The bickering over plans and personnel is said to have frustrated Garner to the point where, according to the Los Angeles Times, he told some associates that he had contemplated quitting. Garner himself is remaining tight-lipped, to the point where The New York Times called his operation "obsessively secret". It will not be long now, it seems, before events force him to put his cards on the table.
Profile: Jay Garner
Name
Jay M Garner, born 15 April 1938
Lives
Isleworth, Windemere, Florida; and, recently, Hilton Hotel Kuwait.
Family
Wife, Connie; one daughter.
Education
History degree, Florida State University, 1962; masters in public admin, Shippensburg University, Pennsylvania)
Career
Joined US Army, 1960. Served in Vietnam; specialised in missile systems and terrorism; early advocate of using lasers; in first Gulf War, commanded Patriot missile batteries; then supervised resettlement of Kurdish refugees (he is pictured below with a Kurdish fighter); Commander of Space and Strategic Defence Command; assistant Chief of Staff until retirement in 1997; president of defence contractors SY Coleman until January 2003. now director of Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for Iraq.
He says
"We are in the job of saving lives and we're going to save lives and do a good job of it" – on protecting Kurdish refugees after the 1991 Gulf War.
"We are aiming to work ourselves out of a job within 90 days" – on post-war Iraq.
They say
"Jay is very down-to-earth. Very humble. You would never know he was a three-star general" – family friend Renée Keenel.
* A site that may be of interest: stopjaygarner.com
Name
Jay M Garner, born 15 April 1938
Lives
Isleworth, Windemere, Florida; and, recently, Hilton Hotel Kuwait.
Family
Wife, Connie; one daughter.
Education
History degree, Florida State University, 1962; masters in public admin, Shippensburg University, Pennsylvania)
Career
Joined US Army, 1960. Served in Vietnam; specialised in missile systems and terrorism; early advocate of using lasers; in first Gulf War, commanded Patriot missile batteries; then supervised resettlement of Kurdish refugees (he is pictured below with a Kurdish fighter); Commander of Space and Strategic Defence Command; assistant Chief of Staff until retirement in 1997; president of defence contractors SY Coleman until January 2003. now director of Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for Iraq.
He says
"We are in the job of saving lives and we're going to save lives and do a good job of it" – on protecting Kurdish refugees after the 1991 Gulf War.
"We are aiming to work ourselves out of a job within 90 days" – on post-war Iraq.
They say
"Jay is very down-to-earth. Very humble. You would never know he was a three-star general" – family friend Renée Keenel.
* A site that may be of interest: stopjaygarner.com
Originally posted by Mishkin
Maybe they will start their own royal family in Iraq. King George Bush, Queen Condoleeza Rice, Prince Donald Rumsfeld.
No, these guys aren't related. It's gonna be King Bush Jr, Queen Bush Sr, Prince Governor of Florida (Brother).
It's crazy man. First I heard they'll send a Shell-guy (the oil company, yes) and now a general. Iraq is now a colony. Well, that'll add millions of new American citizens.
Get ready, Iran!
