Goalkeeper charging / aggression

[Champion757]

Hi. I would like to know if anyone has found a solution to the goalkeeper charging problem in FIFA 10.

There are many good gameplay mods on this site, but I have yet to see a gameplay mod that creates a challenging goalie.

It seems that most of the times when you dribble anywhere near the box or from the sideline, the goalkeeper will charge out unrealistically and leave the net wide open for a cross.

To create challenging gameplay, it is vital that CPU goalkeepers stay close to the goal. It is vital that CPU goalkeepers hug the post when you are dribbleing down the sideline, and move laterally quickly back and forth on the goal line when crosses occur.

I think we have seen some significant improvements to FIFA 10 PC in terms of dribble speed, midfield play, and collisions. But the CPU goalkeeper seems to be one area where no one has solved.

This is what I am attempting to create from a CPU GK standpoint:

-conservative keepers that move laterally left and right between the posts and rarely charge oncoming dribblers

-keepers that never run out wide away from the goal to opponent attackers dribbling from the corner sideline towards the goal

-truly smart keepers that make you find creative ways to score against them

For human / user controlled keepers, keepers should never auto-charge unless you press the GK charge button or manually control the keeper with right analog click-in to switch to goal keeper.

If anyone has found gameplay in ai.ini that is realistic I'd love to test it out. With all the other great gameplay mods, this is one area that is holding FIFA 10 back from being a complete game.

In real soccer, goalkeepers usually do not charge out towards the sidelines under any circumstances, leaving the net wide open. That is the defensive back's responsibilities.

The important things that we should look to improve for CPU goalkeepers is:

-CPU goalkeepers should never chase opponent attackers coming toward the goal from the sidelines and leave a wide open net

-CPU goalkeepers should never rush full speed the moment an opponent dribbler nears the penalty area

-CPU goalkeepers should move quickly laterally left and right with arms outstretched (like they do on penalty kicks) during play

-CPU goalkeepers should guard the goal, and should make user players pinpoint shots to the corner of the net.

-CPU goalkeepers should play smart and should only charge as a last resort at an optimal angle. if a dribbler is trying to move around them, they should charge and move laterally with the dribbler to prevent being beaten. and when the dribbler starts dribbling away from the goal towards the sidelines, the goalie should immediately rush back to the near post to be able to defend a lob shot

If anyone has found a good balance of the goalie tuning parameters in ai.ini for FIFA 10 that leads to conservative CPU goalies that guard the goal and move quickly left and right between the posts, I'd love to test the parameters.

In UCL 06/07, I found a good balance of CPU goalies that didn't rush out that much but there are more parameters in FIFA 10's ai.ini (like GK_CPU_CHARGING_MAX_RANGE = 22 and GK_CPU_CHARGING_AGGRESSION_BONUS = 0.0) that make it harder to achieve this conservative goalie.

Thank you and I hope in the near future we can really make this game as great as it should by making the CPU goalkeepers conservative, not charge out and leave wide open nets, and make it so the human / user goalkeeper does not charge unless the user switches to him or presses the GK charge button.

 

[darkvajo]

it'd be great if this issue could be fixed.. i believe that it was going to be fixed in an official patch.. but that patch never waw the light so... we'd just have to try to arrange it ourselves (:

 

[regularcat]

ill get it man, you know that.

 

[Champion757]

I think I've struck gold in this regard just a few hours after creating this thread. I've spent some time on the practice field and tested lots of parameters one by one seeing how keepers reacted and I have made some significant conclusions. Still some tweaking to go, but ohh man this is getting real good real quick...


Goalkeeper logic and decision making are such a vital part of the game.

 

[Champion757]

After much diligence, CPU GK A.I. has been much improved. Lots of testing and tweaking needed, but I've found a nice balance. This is very frustrating work. I almost got too frustrated with it and said I'll work on it later. But I stuck with it, kept changing values and I think I've finally got it really close to where i want. Goalies are much smarter now. They do not charge when you dribble into the box anymore. They charge sometimes when you get really close but play smart angles and don't just rush. They sometimes charge a few feet, then move to the left or right.

When you get close to the keeper, and get them starting to charge, then you turn around and dribble back away, they abandon their charge and rush back to the goalline. (which is key to keeping the user honest) No longer can you just dribble around a charging CPU keeper and get an easy goal every time. This has only been tested on the practice field, but today I will take this into a 90 minute match and see just how good these CPU goalies are. I know I'm close to what I want them to be. The question is how close am I.

All I know is I've been having some amazing battles on the practice field with the CPU goalkeeper. And I can't tell you how satisfying it truly is. I hope once I refine this I can share this football bliss with the soccer gaming community.

 

[rcjperu]

Keep up the good work man. Hope you share it .
God bless.

 

[darkvajo]

nice news bro (: hope u can make it and release if u want =)

 

[Recrero152]

Thank God that I've found someone who takes this issue seriously, I can't wait for this, I hope you can make a good one

 

[Champion757]

Thank God that I've found someone who takes this issue seriously, I can't wait for this, I hope you can make a good one

Yeah I am really pleased with my progress on this issue. The goalies are much tougher now. And not impossible. They are beatable. But goalies are now conservative. They are amazingly smart. Amazingly, they actually make the correct decisions. When no one is nearby, they'll come out to fetch the ball or kick it away. On corner kicks, they'll run out and punch the ball out if it's within their range. But, the key is, on regular dribble penetration from the opposition, as they approach the penalty, and even a few yards into the penalty, they just strafe left and right to try to predict the save attempt. On one on ones, when the opposition gets really close, they'll come out slowly a few yards to try to cut down the angle. At this point, you could also click the right analog and take over and try to make a save. (hard to do but i'm getting better). But the key is they don't just charge out by themselves. That's frankly the key to the game. That's the key to the game because now you have to really be creative to earn goals. That means your team's goalie won't make stupid charges either. That means your goalie won't rush out allowing the CPU to dribble around you to an open net. (and likewise, you can't just dribble around the CPU goalie charging out to beat them) Yeah, that's how it is on default settings and it makes the game unrealistically high. No goalie in real life will ever rush out of the net when he has defenders around him, leaving the opposition a wide open net to cross and score.

So I am very pleased with where I have gotten with this but I am going to heed on the side of caution before i release any a.i. I am close to where I want them but I still have some tweaking to do to make sure the goalies are as smart as they can be. If you want to know some tips on how to make your goalies play more conservatively via ai.ini's goalie tuning parameters, feel free to PM me and i'll be glad to share my conclusions from the testing I've done in this regard.

To give you guys an idea on the type of matches I've been having, I've been playing full time matches. Yeah 90 minute matches plus extra time (HALF_SECONDS=2700 / 45 minute halves). I just finished a match after watching the highlights of a match I saw on TV. RC Lens beat St. Etienne 1-0 on a late penalty shot, a game in which the St. Etienne keeper made some marvelous saves. Anyway, I was St. Etienne playing at RC Lens. Eduardo Dos Santos scored twice in the first half (7th minute and 21st minute) to give Lens a 2-0 lead at the half.

In the second half I equalized on a incredible goal at an impossible angle. (i may have to upload a video of the replay it was so amazing). I made it 2-1. I had a few chances to equalize but they finally broke me around the 70th minute to lead 3-1. Towards the end I tried and I tried to score again but I just couldn't beat the keeper. And the Lens defense played terrific staying near the net making me find creative ways to beat him. I had a few great chances late but every time he stood tall.

Lens won 3-1 after 4+ minutes 2nd half stoppage time. Shots on target : St. Etienne 13, Lens 8. Total Shots : St. Etienne 21, Lens 15. Possession: St Etienne 58%, Lens 42%.

Yeah I controlled a lot of the game, but the main problem I am having has to do with fatigue. When you play 45 minute halves, the first half is great but by the second half, most of my players (and my opponents) were in the red fatigue level, so the game totally changes in the second half.

It changes the whole way you play, because your players have so much energy in the first half, it's easy to waste all your stamina by halftime. That's what happened. So by the second half I really had to concentrate to even get any scoring chances. And I got quite a few of them, but since I couldn't outrun the defense, I had to try to be really quick with my reflexes in their penalty area, and it was very hard to get crosses against Lens.

I had like 15 corner kicks but not one of them could beat the keeper. I gotta go back to the drawing board. It was a tough loss but it was so much fun, it was so realistic I couldn't believe it. I actually had realistic stats in a game that long, and it felt like a real match where both teams are going up and down the field just trying to get scoring chances. It was like I had to earn my scoring chances by being smart. I actually felt like I controlled most of the game, but I just made two defensive mistakes as I wasn't playing zonal marking in the first half and I let Dos Santos get through into my penalty and I panicked and I went down 2-0. But then I really buckled down and fought my way back into the game and made an amazing goal early in the 2nd half, then they found a great touch into my penalty area and beat my keeper a 3rd time and that was basically it. Even though I was only down 2 goals with over 20 actual minutes left of football, with my fatigue low and all 3 of my substitutions made, it became so hard to get deep penetration, and when I did, the opposing keeper stayed on the goal line even when I ran into the penalty area, I just couldn't find a way to get the back of the net and get to within 1 goal.

The challenge of it was so good though that it made it one of my best games I've played. It felt so good to play a game where cheap goals aren't just happening left and right and it's like 6-5 or something. It was 3-1 and this is over an hour and a half of gameplay.

By the end, I was a bit exhausted but I fought hard to the end. Even though I lost, I just want to tweak a few parameters and get a rematch against Lens because I know I can beat them if I just play patient.

This is the kind of gameplay I have been trying to get for years and only until now am I getting close. The goal keeper charging issue is by far the biggest issue in the game for me. There is a lot of great work being done for player control, buildup, pass speed, and the likes. But as far as I am concerned, nothing is as important as a conservative goalie. A goalie that doesn't run out and charge you for no good reason. Goalies that rely on their defense to prevent 1 on 1s.

This is what I take seriously and I'll make every effort to make it as realistic as possible.

 

[darkvajo]

great news man

 

[charliehamster]

I will be watching the progress of your work with great interest. Are you planning on tweaking other aspects of the AI in the future ?

 

[Recrero152]

Wow, you have really put up everything there and from the looks of it, it sounds like you'll be making something legendary. I'd sure like to see that goal you were talking about from that match and I can't wait for the release. Finally, I'll be able to play true and realistic football at FIFA 10, all thanks to your upcoming gameplay and for that; I salute you!

 

[darkvajo]

u should fusion ur work with regularcat or at least share concepts. U two could make a huuuge GP patch together

 

[regularcat]

we have been, & champ is doing his gk thing.

we discussed many things, hes gonna release his gk ai.

i have been working on my own, now that i have good build up play & passing,
i have put my efforts into better goalkeeping as well, & will be releasing v.6 soon.

sorry about the plug of my ai in your thread champ/dashpunch.

 

[Recrero152]

Nice to hear, agree with darkvajo, you two could make quite a team and build possibly the best gameplay yet for a FIFA game