Cricket Thread..

[Alex]

The Australian side worked as a team, but that doesn't mean you can't have stars. You still need them, to stand up and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat etc. That's what the real superstars can do. Turn a game with one freak performance. Gilchrist, Hayden, Warne, McGrath and Ponting all did that more than once in their careers. Trott is a mighty solid player, but isn't likely to REALLY turn a game, and shift momentum. He can play another side out of it, or he can sneak a draw from a likely loss. But he isn't that freakish guy that can really change the course of the match alone. Cook is a great talent, but I'm not sure he has the aggression to do that either.

 

[Sir Calumn]

Yeah Trott has technical skill and nothing else..... needs to grow a backbone and a pair of cajones.... and I agree with you about Cook, I have NEVER seen an ounce of aggression in his game which you really need to win test matches as it is so psychological..... he is the classic English gentleman "plucky, gallant loser" sportsman....

 

[Alex]

That's a hard thing to change, and I think Cook has done a reasonable job really. He has grown up in a country where spring mediocrity was expected for so long.

That's why I find international sport so hard to follow now. I grew up in a time where Australians just won stuff. Now...not so much

 

[SAM32]

Also the groups for the T20 world cup have been announced.....

four groups of three, two go through from each group?

Group A - England, India and Afghanistan
Group B - Australia, West Indies and Ireland
Group C - South Africa, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe
Group D - New Zealand, Pakistan and Bangladesh

Is there actually the tiniest bit of point in these groups? This makes the Champions League group stage look viciously competitive...

I think possibly there can b some upsets in Group B & D!!
What do u think guyz?

 

[Sir Calumn]

I think it's very, very unlikely.

 

[Alex]

I think D much more likely than B. Bangladesh can go ok at this sort of stuff - and Pakistan and NZ have both been known to have terrible games on off days.

West Indies could slip up to Ireland - but it's much less likely I think.

 

[Sir Calumn]

Nah man - a lot of those West Indies players are really focusing on limited overs cricket now, to the detriment of the test team. I actually rate Windies as dark horses to win.

Haven't seen Bangladesh in a while but they are gonna have to have improved a helleva lot to get even close and I very much doubt it - NZ have a lot of top IPL players and Pakistan raise their game when it matters.

 

[Sir Calumn]

Straussy.......

Totally didnt see that coming.

Great bloke, quality batsman despite recent dip in form. Poor captain tactically and far too conservative, but his "one of the boys" and "lead by example" approach was effective and his work alongside the selectors in bringing in new faces and rotating talent was very admirable. Also it's not like there is a natural "next leader" waiting in the wings to take over, the way Australia had Clarke. Going forward without him and potentially KP could be catastrophic. Also worry about Cook getting the captaincy at this point, he still hasnt finished growing as a batsman, oh please please dont spoil our best potential batting talent the way the captaincy ruined Vaughan!

Not a good past few weeks for England fans

 

[Alex]

He wasn't a poor captain. Just not a super one. He was a great captain to build a team towards number 1. He was consistent and rarely made a wrong decision - he just would rarely go out on a limb. That meant he wasn't really someone that was really going to take England to be the undoubted worlds best.

Australia had Mark Taylor play Strauss's sort of role (though Taylor was a much better captain - but again not a huge risk taker). Then Steve Waugh came in as captain, and was perfect for a side that was number one in the world. He didn't give an inch, was ruthless, aggressive and not afraid to make a decision. Ponting was lucky that by the time he came along, it didn't matter who was captain. And for the most part Punter wasn't a great captain and got away with it. Warne would have been an awesome captain, and was a great cricketing mind, but was always in too much trouble off the field. But at least Clarke is there now, who is more in the mould of Warnie. Ponting ended up coming at a bad time for us really though, we needed Clarke a few years earlier. Ponting was too stubborn to step aside as captain, and we still wanted him as a batsman. But as a captain he was often hurting us.

 

[Sir Calumn]

Ha sorry I just CANNOT picture Warne as a Captain in a million years

 

[Alex]

Warne captained the One Day side, Victoria and numerous T20 sides over the years.

He is a ridiculously good tactician. One of the best cricketing brains you'll see.

In an "All Stars" (retired players) vs Australia T20 match a few years ago, he and McGrath were wired up (in the All Stars side) and they way the two of them thought about their cricket was unbelievable. The little things they did and said was amazing.

One example I remember was a very off cuff remark from Warne- McGrath asked to take out a slip when he was bowling, and move him elsewhere, and rather than question removing the slip/getting the edge, even the way Warne asked the question was brilliant: "So the edge will be fine enough for the keeper?" or something like that. Just a little thing to plant in the batsman's mind. Not questioning whether there will be an edge, just wondering how thick it'll be. And it was said really matter of factly, not like it said purposefully to raise doubt in the batsman's mind.

McGrath also basically called a wicket in that match:

He called it to first slip, the edge only went as wide as the keeper - but ridiculous skill. And this is a guy who had been retired 2 years.

 

[Sir Calumn]

I'm sorry but he might be the best tactician in the world (he is one of my favourite commentators) but no way is anyone gonna take orders from Ol' Warney seriously..... the aussie captain is usually the guy in the side who mucks about least.

 

[Alex]

I'm sorry but he might be the best tactician in the world (he is one of my favourite commentators) but no way is anyone gonna take orders from Ol' Warney seriously..... the aussie captain is usually the guy in the side who mucks about least.

Na, he was hugely respected in the Australian side, and was vice captain for years. Definitely would have been a great captain had he not always been thinking with his cock off it

 

[Xifio]

for the most part Punter wasn't a great captain and got away with it. Warne would have been an awesome captain, and was a great cricketing mind, but was always in too much trouble off the field. But at least Clarke is there now, who is more in the mould of Warnie. Ponting ended up coming at a bad time for us really though, we needed Clarke a few years earlier. Ponting was too stubborn to step aside as captain, and we still wanted him as a batsman. But as a captain he was often hurting us.

hah, interesting ... Pup (not one any more, obviously) definitely had a lot of growing up to do before he was ready to take over ... I thought Punter did well to keep the Oz train going after Steve Waugh's Invincibles ... he had the arrogance, and the balls, and he put in the peformances too ... I mean, yeah, I think he could have done better grooming a replacement, and stepping aside earlier, but was it the 2005 Ashes that made you rate his captaincy less? coz there's little else he could have accomplished between 2003 and 2007 (in terms of results) ...

as for Warnie: I have a lot of respect for his tactical abilities ... the only time I've actually seen him captain was in the 2008 IPL, where he did brilliantly ... not sure if he would have had the same effect on the international stage ...

 

[Alex]

No, not that series (we were unlucky there more than anything) just his captaincy in general. He wasn't a good decision maker. He led by example, but that's where it finished. Probably our second best batsman ever, but not a great captain. Anyone could have kept that era going after Waugh. He has McGrath, Gillespie, Lee and Warne bowling, and a batting line-up that basically all averaged high 40s-50s...including his wicket keeper coming in at seven.

Tactically Clarke is much better. Ponting was notoriously afraid to make a decision, and didn't have the killer instinct of Waugh. He was afraid to lose games, rather than wanting to win them.

As for Warne, just about any knowledgeable Australian cricket fan acknowledges he was the best tactician to never captain Australia. And a natural leader too. Unfortunately he was just a loose canon, especially off the field.

 

[SAM32]

maxwell has got a shining future!! he was brilliant in last odi vs us.

 

[Alex]

maxwell has got a shining future!! he was brilliant in last odi vs us.

We'll see. One hot day doesn't make a summer

 

[SAM32]

Team Pakistan beat Australia very comfortably by 7 wickets with 31 balls to spare in 1st T20.. This is the heaviest defeat for Aussies in T20 cricket.

Australia 89 (19.3/20 ov)
Pakistan 90/3 (14.5/20 ov)

 

[Sir Calumn]

Poor final ODI from England too......

By the way I like that we finally have a few cricket regulars. Beats me and Alex replying to each other every three months.

 

[Alex]

Poor final ODI from England too......

By the way I like that we finally have a few cricket regulars. Beats me and Alex replying to each other every three months.

Especially as you're an English fan, and therefore clueless, as you've likely only followed the game for the five years England have been decent!?