Parra Power
Manager
well maybe as u r located where osama lives, maybe you could help out 
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BREAKING NEWS ! Saddam Has Been Captured : CONFIRMED
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
KoreaJjang
Senior Squad
Its Secret~~
Course you would, when the mate is no longer useful and if anything detrimental to your ambitions in the region.
Take a look here, http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/, scroll down to the section 'Shaking Hands With Saddam Hussein', download the pdf's and get reading. They are all declassified documents from the National Security Archive, and contains the notes of meetings between Rumsfeld, Tariq Aziz, and Saddam Hussein in the early '80's. There is a whole bunch of stuff on how Reagan removed Iraq from the list of states sponsering terrorism
, how he ensured the US could start exporting 'equipment' to Iraq, how they all knew about Iraqs deployment of chemical weaponry. Basically, they hang themselves with their own words.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Parra Power
Manager
wtf is wit all this death penalty bull****..... killing him would only lower the west to his level...
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
He'd be broken out of prison in a year......
Thelonious
Senior Squad
Bush has already lowered the west to his level
J
JJ
Guest
Last time I heard, Miloševic was being done for war crimes...
Glad they captured him and all because now he can face trial for his crimes.
Like rhizome though I'm also interested to hear what he has to say (if he does) about the US/UK/etc. involvement in helping him commit the attrocities that they used to gloss over the fact that we went to war against them based on suspicion of WMDs.
Quick question though as a thought occurred to me.
All this talk of him being tried under Iraqi law... While I agree that he should be tried by the people against whom the attrocities were committed 100%, I now have a cynicism against any motive our govts use for anything as they obviously feel that we can be lied to, and I'd be interested to hear any truthful comments from the past 12 months. This leads to scepticism as to why Saddam should be tried under Iraqi law when people like Milosevic, amongst most other captured dictators, have been tried in International courts.
I realise that the USA does not recognise International courts (probably because they'd be in breach of most of the laws anyway, and would also be unrepentant, as they appear to deny any involvement with anything ever (they'd say slavery never happened if they thought they could get away with it)), but my gut feeling is that if Saddam implicates the US/UK in an International court it would be impossible to cover up and blame 'The Western judicial process'. Where as if he does it in Iraq, then if it isn't easily swept under the carpet, and I doubt much effort will be made to investigate any claims that may be made.
I mean, I heard on a BBC Interview last night some 'silver fox' with moustache (can't remember his name now), imply that the US doesn't care what the other Arab nations think of what should be done with Saddam anyway because, 'they don't offer fair elections or trials' (that's all of them, every Arab nation - or at least every one in the Arab league!!!) (Bit rich coming from US after it's last election debacle) I just thought that he could not say anything like that without being either racist or obnoxious.
Like rhizome though I'm also interested to hear what he has to say (if he does) about the US/UK/etc. involvement in helping him commit the attrocities that they used to gloss over the fact that we went to war against them based on suspicion of WMDs.
Quick question though as a thought occurred to me.
All this talk of him being tried under Iraqi law... While I agree that he should be tried by the people against whom the attrocities were committed 100%, I now have a cynicism against any motive our govts use for anything as they obviously feel that we can be lied to, and I'd be interested to hear any truthful comments from the past 12 months. This leads to scepticism as to why Saddam should be tried under Iraqi law when people like Milosevic, amongst most other captured dictators, have been tried in International courts.
I realise that the USA does not recognise International courts (probably because they'd be in breach of most of the laws anyway, and would also be unrepentant, as they appear to deny any involvement with anything ever (they'd say slavery never happened if they thought they could get away with it)), but my gut feeling is that if Saddam implicates the US/UK in an International court it would be impossible to cover up and blame 'The Western judicial process'. Where as if he does it in Iraq, then if it isn't easily swept under the carpet, and I doubt much effort will be made to investigate any claims that may be made.
I mean, I heard on a BBC Interview last night some 'silver fox' with moustache (can't remember his name now), imply that the US doesn't care what the other Arab nations think of what should be done with Saddam anyway because, 'they don't offer fair elections or trials' (that's all of them, every Arab nation - or at least every one in the Arab league!!!) (Bit rich coming from US after it's last election debacle) I just thought that he could not say anything like that without being either racist or obnoxious.
LilPlayaJosh
Reserve Team
And what he has to say about the French, the Germans and Russians who at some point all helped Saddam so its not just the USA that had one time helped Saddam. All yall do is find stuff to go against America yet yall overlook any other countries involvement with the same situation.... I mean some of yall are critical of the US no matter what. I mean yall overlook the positives and exagerate the negatives. I mean I know some stuff the govt is doing is questionable but that goes the same for most govt's around the globe the US is just the only country that is on everyones news channels, over here the news channels rarely talk about what other countries are doing unless its about something the we are also involved in. And Rhizome what do you mean about global domination? you are exagerating so much Bush would never do that and you know it. Thats a pretty stubborn comment. Let me guess Bush is the next Hitler... lol ok
Noone (well, not me anyway) is saying that the French and the Russians and whoever else don't have links with Saddam that are as dodgy as the USA's. In fact, an argument could be made that it is precisely because Saddam was awarding oil contracts to the French and Russians in the past decade (to go into effect should the sanctions end), thereby freezing the US out of the second-largest oil reserves on the planet, was part of the reason the US was so eager to prosecute the war. Heck, Rummy admits as much in his 1997 correspondence with Clinton
The purpose of Rumsfeld's visits in the early 80's was to negotiate deals regarding the Aqaba pipeline (go to the site I mentioned ealier in this thread and there it is, all in his own words, notes taken at his meetings with Aziz and Hussein )Add to this the fact that it is the US and the UK who prosecuted this war. Most of the rationale in the buildup had to do with the proposition that Saddam had WMD. Now not once in Bushs rhetoric did he admit that deals struck under Reagan and Bush Snr. actually provided Saddam with the means to build and deploy WMD. Not once did he say that Rumsfeld was in Baghdad the very day that the UN came out against Iraq's use of WMD against Iran. The fact is, if you are going to prosecute a war, you better make sure your side is ship-shape before you go about accusing others. Rumsfeld has a skeleton in his closet and its name is Saddam. When questioned in 2002, Rumsfeld said the purpose of his visits in the 80's was to complain about Iraqs use of chemical weapons. Well why the hell do his own personal notes show they talked about everything BUT chemical weapons. Pipelines? - check. US assistance for the war against Iran? - check. Removing Iraq from the list of states sponsoring terrorism? - check. Increasing trade with US businesses? - check. Delivering a personal message of support from Reagan? - check.
And then the US refused to support a resoution from the UN condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons
Smells like hypocrisy to me. Fact remains, Saddam can quite legitimately call up Rummy and Bush the Senior as a defence witness. Wouldn't that be great. As for global domination - here is a little tip. Type "Project for a New American Century" into google. What you will find is a website with a number of publications covering how the US should ensure its position of sole global superpower, based on financial and military might. How the US should intervene in states they regard as inhibiting this might. How the US should act in order to secure access to oil reserves. How the US should act to ensure the spread of US hegemony and influence across the globe.
The authors of these publications? Just about everyone involved with the current administration. And when you read them, you will be amazed at how much of their doctrine is being put into practice under Bush Jnr. The best thing is, noone can accuse me of posting left wing propaganda - it is so much more tasty when the fools spell it out themselves. Nothing 'stubborn' about my comment at all when you place it alongside the facts.
And if you read my posts, you will see I am one of the few who has never said Bush is the next Hitler
LilPlayaJosh
Reserve Team
I typed in "project for a new american century" and looked around the site for a bit, but I havent seen anything actually written or quoted by anyone from the current bush adm. But can you please tell me atleast one specific publication that is a actual member of the current Bush Adm., because I didnt look through everyhting so I probably missed it.. I appreciate it
The basis of this illegal incursion was that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Powell stated at the UN and the crazies also stated that Saddam that Iraq possessed weapons that were not only of mass destruction
but also able to be mobilised and deployed within 45 minutes. In addition there were the totally farcical reports that Saddam was sharbouring Al Qaeda which there is no evidence of. It is true, Saddam was a heinous and murderous dictator. He did brutalise his people. As the weapons of mass destruction have yet to be found, supporters of the war have made reference that the US have removed an evil dictator, and that he gased the Kurds and the Iranians in the 80s. During this time Saddam was an ally of the US against Iran. His regime was already corrupted and he remained a dictator yet was an ally of the "freedom and peace loving US". Surely the vast sources of US intelligence knew about this at the time.
Saddam's capture is of no relevance as it does not justify the war at all. If the basis of the war was Saddam's removal, will the US be staging incursions into all other countries with rather shady regimes?