About modern superstars...

Recrero152

Reserve Team
Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi, two of today's best footballers. Extraordinary skills from both players which all of us have seen. But these skills are not shown at all on international level.

Cristiano Ronaldo has done 23 goals in 75 matches for Portugal. He scored his first goal in this World Cup at the 7-0 win against North Korea and that ended an one and a half year goalless period for him. ONE AND A HALF YEAR! He scored no goals at this World Cups qualification stage though he was injured for a small period of that time. He has only scored three goals in his last 23 games he has played for his national team despite firing up fantastic goals for Real Madrid and has had a fantastic season with them, 26 goals in 29 matches.

Lionel Messi has 13 goals in 47 matches for his national team, Argentina. He was a decisive factor and an important player for Argentina's U-20 squad, scoring 6 goals in 7 matches and ultimately winning the 2005 FIFA World Youth Championship. The 23-year-old player has done incredible seasons with Barcelona and scored 34 goals for Barcelona this season alone which includes four amazing hat-tricks. He has done very well for his national team but has never been truly decisive in several important matches and hasn't really performed the way he performs in his club. In this World Cup despite several good chances, he still hasn't been able to score.

Wayne Rooney, the biggest star Man United has to offer and without doubt, one of the best players in Europe. He has 25 goals in 64 matches for England. Rooney became a huge hit immediately in United when he scored a hat-trick in his debut for the club. He has been very important for his club and has scored many fantastic goals. He has never been an important part of the national team however and hasn't managed to do well for England as he has with United. He has not been good at all during this World Cup and has been a colossal disappointment as well as the national team.

My question is: Why are all these modern superstars so skillful at club level but can't perform for their countries the way they perform for their clubs? I'd bet that pressure and expectations from media and people has something to do about it. Since they are superstars and deliver so well for their clubs, the very same is expected by all fans and media when it comes to the national team and when the moment finally comes, they can't perform. Any other theories?
 

Arnau

NGR LVR
Messi played today where Piqué us to play in Barça. Argentina with 4 CB 1 Midfielder and 5 forwards its crap.
 

Help?

Fan Favourite
You seriously can't figure out why they underperform?

1. Different coach, different tactics = different instructions
2. Fatigue, playing 2 intense games every week for 10 months = no energy for the summer

Isn't it obvious why the top players that have amazing season for their teams almost always fail to deliver in the summer. While average players at the club level that barely get a game in, seem to outshine everybody in the summer tournaments?
 

Gene Reginato

Youth Team
It's a questions of priorities, look at the brazilians:

Ronaldo: great for NT, great for club
Ronaldinho: great for club, bad for NT
Kaká: great for club (when fit), good for NT
Robinho: good for club, great for NT

And so on.
 

Arnau

NGR LVR
Well, Ronaldinho wasn't bad at all in korea-japan... better than overatedkaka in germany or southafrica till now.
 

jumbo

Starting XI
I tell you why... because they don't give a ****. They don't get paid for playing on the national team. Only a fool puts more energy into a hobby than his full-time job. Or someone with loads of ambition. Which one of these do you think your superstars fall under?

The game's become over-commercialized. Running around with your country's crest on the jersey doesn't mean the same thing it used to. Remember this - football follows culture, no - football reflects culture. We are motivated by money, what do you think motivates your superstars? Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney - financially they are set for generations to come. They've achieved everything at club and individual level. You think they give a ****? If they don't win now, it's ok, someone of them will come back in four years and try again.

Superstars my ass. People like Jong Tae Se who cries every time the North Korea anthem is played and leaves his heart on the pitch - that's a real superstar.
 

Arnau

NGR LVR
Argentinian bench celebration everytime they score are priceless. Its not a matter of money.
 

Sevillista

Starting XI
jumbo;2897798 said:
I tell you why... because they don't give a ****. They don't get paid for playing on the national team. Only a fool puts more energy into a hobby than his full-time job. Or someone with loads of ambition. Which one of these do you think your superstars fall under?

The game's become over-commercialized. Running around with your country's crest on the jersey doesn't mean the same thing it used to. Remember this - football follows culture, no - football reflects culture. We are motivated by money, what do you think motivates your superstars? Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney - financially they are set for generations to come. They've achieved everything at club and individual level. You think they give a ****? If they don't win now, it's ok, someone of them will come back in four years and try again.

Superstars my ass. People like Jong Tae Se who cries every time the North Korea anthem is played and leaves his heart on the pitch - that's a real superstar.
You're a fool. This isn't the USA Men's basketball team. Most of the players at the World Cup, including those mentioned in this thread, give everything they've got for their NT. This is the biggest stage there is.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
Help?;2897735 said:
You seriously can't figure out why they underperform?

1. Different coach, different tactics = different instructions
definitely agree about the coaches and the tactics ...

it is also because the national team spends little time together, and may not have gelled as well ...

and I think it has to do with the quality of players around them ...



Help?;2897735 said:
2. Fatigue, playing 2 intense games every week for 10 months = no energy for the summer

Isn't it obvious why the top players that have amazing season for their teams almost always fail to deliver in the summer. While average players at the club level that barely get a game in, seem to outshine everybody in the summer tournaments?
your "players' rest theory", while looking a likely reason, doesn't hold up well upon analysis, I'm afraid ...

Cristiano Ronaldo had an injury in the middle of the season, so he only played 35 ...

Leo Messi played played 52-53 matches last season ... but Thomas Müller played the same number, including the Champions League final, and he seems to be going alright ... Philip Lahm also had 52-53 matches, and he constantly runs up and down the pitch every match ... and Forlán played 55 matches, including the Europa League final that went into extra time ...

Wayne Rooney played just under 50 ... Luis Suárez played just under 50 ...

Steven Gerrard played around 45 ... Mesut Özil played around 45 ... Dougie Maicon too played around 45 ...

^ examples of players who had similar lengths to their season, but have such variety/disparity in their performances at the World Cup ... so I don't think the rest theory really resonates at this World Cup ... but I do think players play a few too many matches; that could potentially see a few stars drained ahead of a World Cup, and could even force their careers to be shortened due to it ...

and curiously, which mediocre players have you seen performing above their expected level?
 

Help?

Fan Favourite
Gene Reginato;2897772 said:
It's a questions of priorities, look at the brazilians:

Ronaldo: great for NT, great for club
Ronaldinho: great for club, bad for NT
Kaká: great for club (when fit), good for NT
Robinho: good for club, great for NT

And so on.

In 2002 Ronaldo made 16 appearances in total for Inter
Ronaldinho has been fat for the past 3 years and its no secret that Italian league is played at a slower pace than La Liga or EPL
Kaka has been having a terrible season both at Real and international level, he is just lacking confidence
Robinho played 18 games for Man City and Santos this season in total

Now compare to
Messi who played 53 games excluding International and friendlies
Rooney who played 44 games excluding International and friendlies
 

Arnau

NGR LVR
Messi is playing much better than Robinho or Kaka. He'll score some hat tricks as soon as Argentina need it.
 

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Xifio;2897861 said:
your "players' rest theory", while looking a likely reason, doesn't hold up well upon analysis, I'm afraid ...

Cristiano Ronaldo had an injury in the middle of the season, so he only played 35 ...

Leo Messi played played 52-53 matches last season ... but Thomas Müller played the same number, including the Champions League final, and he seems to be going alright ... Philip Lahm also had 52-53 matches, and he constantly runs up and down the pitch every match ... and Forlán played 55 matches, including the Europa League final that went into extra time ...

Wayne Rooney played just under 50 ... Luis Suárez played just under 50 ...

Steven Gerrard played around 45 ... Mesut Özil played around 45 ... Dougie Maicon too played around 45 ...

^ examples of players who had similar lengths to their season, but have such variety/disparity in their performances at the World Cup ... so I don't think the rest theory really resonates at this World Cup ... but I do think players play a few too many matches; that could potentially see a few stars drained ahead of a World Cup, and could even force their careers to be shortened due to it ...

and curiously, which mediocre players have you seen performing above their expected level?

You got some interesting stats there and maybe fatigue is a combination of Rooney and Messi dominating for 2 seasons English and Spanish leagues as well as Champions League, while others play in German, Dutch and Italian leagues. To me the responsibilities put on the shoulders of Ronaldo, Rooney and Messi, just don't compare to the expectations of Forlan, Suarez, Muller and Lahm. But I might be wrong as stats seem to show otherwise.

As for mediocre players, I'd call Cannavaro's performance at the World Cup a one off. Dos Santos did quite well for Mexico, but can't seem to find his feet on club level (I do concede that he is still young though). Podolski and Klose definitely disappoint at club level. But you know, it could all be tactics, as Villa, Higuain, Tevez all seem to shine on both levels.
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
RobbieD_PL;2897878 said:
Hasn't scored yet though. :(

So ******* what? Argentina scores 3 goals per game, virtually all assisted by Messi, and people dare to bitch that Messi isn't scoring himself? **** off.
 

Back Door Skip

Pedro
Staff member
Messi has more of a Maradona-esque playmaker role in the NT than as a right forward in Barca. He has a ridiculous amount of impact, especially when he gets double or triple marked whenever he touches the ball yet still makes plays. Even then how many ****ty tap in goals have Higuain and the other strikers have gotten off of Messi's shots?
 

mrromaniac

Reserve Team
In my opinion, most of the modern superstars don't give a **** about their country. I mean, yeah, they're ok at the NT, but they don't really get that feeling when they're representing their country. Don't tell me Messi really gives a **** for Argentina. Most of them don't.
 

RobbieD_PL

Unreliable deceiver
Staff member
Moderator
ShiftyPowers;2897913 said:
So ******* what? Argentina scores 3 goals per game, virtually all assisted by Messi, and people dare to bitch that Messi isn't scoring himself? **** off.

I'm not bitching about him not scoring, i'm just saying that he deserves to score at least one himself precisely because of the workrate that he's put in towards assisting the team.
 

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
RobbieD_PL;2897945 said:
I'm not bitching about him not scoring, i'm just saying that he deserves to score at least one himself precisely because of the workrate that he's put in towards assisting the team.

Why does it matter? The team is winning, that's all that counts. I'm sure Messi doesn't care if he goes goalless if Argentina wins the World Cup.
 

RobbieD_PL

Unreliable deceiver
Staff member
Moderator
ShiftyPowers;2897950 said:
Why does it matter? The team is winning, that's all that counts. I'm sure Messi doesn't care if he goes goalless if Argentina wins the World Cup.

Well if he doesn't score, then he doesn't score, as you say as long as the team wins that's the most important; again I'm not saying that he has to score, just that it would be nice to see him get one. It's not like he hasn't tried to score, he's had some fantastic shots and he's just been unlucky. That doesn't take away from his top-class playmaking.
 


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