A moral question

[Alex]

Oh, also, as I've said, I don't see it morally wrong IF she never finds out. He can't guarantee that, so you have to look at that risk. I'd want to know more about what risks the guy takes etc. I think it'd be as wrong to hurt his gf, more than anything. So all this moral crap goes out the window in that case. Even with the whole honesty is the best answer stuff, is it really? So A tells this girl that he has gotten with other girls, suddenly she (as ALL girls do) starts to wonder why she isn't enough etc. I think this hurts her as much as anything, surely??

I actually believe that cheating is a human creation, and is deemed bad simply because humans are jealous creatures. It's the only situation in life where having a sole outlet is seen as the answer. We don't only shop at one shop, we don't only have one friend, etc etc. But because people are jealous - especially in love, we have created this moral issue around it. Route cause of that issue is the hurt from the jealousy. If that is eliminated (through the other party never knowing), no damage is done

 

[Zlatan]

If that girlfriend is anything of a proper woman, she'll find out one day. You can be sure of that. That is, if she doesn't secretly know already.

 

[Bobby]

Maybe he gets off on the thrill of possibly being found out? Do you think that's possible, Sir_Didier_Drogba? He's obviously a sick, sick man.

 

[Zlatan]

And in addition to my last post, to those people arguing that he should keep it secret because of the girls feelings: it's better and easier to cope with this kind of news when you hear it from the guy himself than through some friend or something. So don't bother keeping it secret for the sake of the girl, 'cause she'll be even more mad and upset when she hears about it through someone else.

Keeping it secret for the sake of himself, I don't know. That's entirely up to him, if he's comfortable living like this it's okay I guess.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

JS, I also disagree with your view regarding the person eventually hitting a wall, or being unhappy. I know more unhappy guys in steady, "honest" relationships than any other guys I know. I'm not sure that's always the answer.

Oh, that's a pretty good point too. Certainly there are a lot of marriages that last because one or both parties occasionally go outside the marriage.

 

[Alex]

And in addition to my last post, to those people arguing that he should keep it secret because of the girls feelings: it's better and easier to cope with this kind of news when you hear it from the guy himself than through some friend or something. So don't bother keeping it secret for the sake of the girl, 'cause she'll be even more mad and upset when she hears about it through someone else.

Keeping it secret for the sake of himself, I don't know. That's entirely up to him, if he's comfortable living like this it's okay I guess.

That is based purely on the assumption that she will one day find out.

 

[Zlatan]

She will. You can't keep these things secret forever, certainly if you do it a lot (like Sir_Didier_Drogba described in his post).

 

[ShiftyPowers]

There is of course the possibility that the girlfriend is aware, but doesn't care, or chooses to turn a blind eye. Confronting her with a big reveal would only force her out of a relationship she wanted to stay in.

 

[ARIAGA II]

Depends who you care about more, him or the girl.

 

[Alex]

She will. You can't keep these things secret forever, certainly if you do it a lot (like Sir_Didier_Drogba described in his post).

Says who? People only say that once they're caught (not just in the case of cheating, but in any incidence of rule breaking). At the end of the day, LOADS goes unpunished all the time.

Once people are caught everyone comes out with "they were bound to be caught" etc etc, but I'm sure there are loads of people doing loads of things and not getting caught. As I said, not just cheating, but loads of 'rule breaking' situations.

The only reason people think everyone is bound to be caught/found out, is because 100% of known cheaters were caught/came clean/whatever. The others aren't known.

 

[Alex]

Depends who you care about more, him or the girl.

Not necessarily. Shifty raised a good point regarding nearly exactly this. ie. confronting a girl would cause her to jump from a relationship she was otherwise happy in.

I'm sure it can be argued that the girl could choose to stay with the guy, but the dynamic in the relationship would change completely.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Says who? People only say that once they're caught (not just in the case of cheating, but in any incidence of rule breaking). At the end of the day, LOADS goes unpunished all the time.

Once people are caught everyone comes out with "they were bound to be caught" etc etc, but I'm sure there are loads of people doing loads of things and not getting caught. As I said, not just cheating, but loads of 'rule breaking' situations.

The only reason people think everyone is bound to be caught/found out, is because 100% of known cheaters were caught/came clean/whatever. The others aren't known.

I completely agree with you about this. Most instances of cheating, and most cheaters, get away with it. You never know about the ones who get away with it, so it just seems like getting caught is inevitable.

I think being forthcoming is not a good thing in an otherwise happy relationship, and I think that cheating saves just as many (maybe more) happy relationships than it kills. The only thing that gives me a slight pause with this particular case is that they aren't married. I think a marriage is worth saving if it is otherwise healthy, and especially with kids, but in a non-marriage it's not as clear cut for me that this is totally fine. Not that I would ever judge my friends in perfectly happy relationships who do it.

 

[Alex]

I completely agree with you about this. Most instances of cheating, and most cheaters, get away with it. You never know about the ones who get away with it, so it just seems like getting caught is inevitable.

I think being forthcoming is not a good thing in an otherwise happy relationship, and I think that cheating saves just as many (maybe more) happy relationships than it kills. The only thing that gives me a slight pause with this particular case is that they aren't married. I think a marriage is worth saving if it is otherwise healthy, and especially with kids, but in a non-marriage it's not as clear cut for me that this is totally fine. Not that I would ever judge my friends in perfectly happy relationships who do it.

See, I'm not someone that believes much in marriage. I don't necessarily disagree with it - and I'm sure I'll be married some time, but look at the example of my girlfriend and me. We've been together over six years, happily living together for 3, and we're not married.

So in this case, what side of your marriage line do we fall on?

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I actually do disagree with marriage, haha. I think it's a useful arrangement for raising kids, but not much else. I don't think I will ever get married personally, but I guess you never really know.

As for you, I would say that you are not married as you have no kids and are not married, but you seem to be more advanced down the line than Sir_Didier_Drogba's friend.

 

[Zlatan]

Says who? People only say that once they're caught (not just in the case of cheating, but in any incidence of rule breaking). At the end of the day, LOADS goes unpunished all the time.

Once people are caught everyone comes out with "they were bound to be caught" etc etc, but I'm sure there are loads of people doing loads of things and not getting caught. As I said, not just cheating, but loads of 'rule breaking' situations.

The only reason people think everyone is bound to be caught/found out, is because 100% of known cheaters were caught/came clean/whatever. The others aren't known.

Dude, if you do it a lot there's a big big chance some mutual friend or other finds out and tells her. That's bound to happen some time. If you think this is never going to happen you're either stupid or naive or both. You'd have to have a very strictly seperated group of friends to pull off something like this and not get caught eventually. Which is basically impossible because when you're in a relationship you often have a lot of shared friends. As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if she actually already knew.

I can't judge both of these persons' character obviously, but if I was in this type of situation I'd be a lot more relieved and happy if it were actually spoken out. There can't be a happy and healthy relationship, as far as I can see, when one is constantly cheating on the other. Especially in the hypothetical situation that she actually knew about him cheating (like ShiftyPowers said), I wouldn't be comfortable being in a relationship where there was this elephant in the room. Regardless of what the result would be of having a big reveal, in the end I think both parties would come out of it relieved and happier. You could say speaking up about it would force her out of a relationship she wants to be in, but does she really want to be in a relationship with someone who's constantly unfaithful? I wouldn't, but that's just me. As I said I can't judge these people. If they're comfortable with their relationship as it is, then there's no need to be honest and speak up about it.

 

[Sir Calumn]

Wow, thank you for all the opinions guys. Alex I should introduce you to my friend, he is not nearly as good at rationalizing these things as you are!

Anyway, sepak, I asked my friend your questions pretty much verbatim but he is a bit slow and didnt really understand so it will take a bit longer whilst I attempt to explain.

Other questions that arose - I believe my friend is in his late twenties, and he is not married to his girlfriend though I dont think he is anti marriage. But as I said I doubt he would be able to consider the possibility of marriage if he were not able to sleep with other women on the side. One more thing of interest is that my friend recently put on a considerable amount of weight, which may be further cause for self validation.

 

[Alex]

I can't judge both of these persons' character obviously, but if I was in this type of situation I'd be a lot more relieved and happy if it were actually spoken out.

No, you'd be happier if you never knew.

 

[Chuckínho]

I find it hard to believe that the New Zealander doesn't shag sheep...

 

[Alex]

Zlatan, I think that your views and intentions are honourable, I'm just not sure that you think about it from an objective view point, and that's because we're swayed by what we see as right in the world as it is.

A flip point to consider, is why don't humans consider monogamy selfish? You're basically saying that one person is yours, and yours only. And that's not selfish?

Obviously in the real world that view doesn't necessarily work, as the two little, A and his GF, are in an assumed monogamous relationship. So it does seem wrong that A agreed to such a relationship if he isn't happy with those terms and conditions. However, as I've mentioned, in my eyes (and I've read this plenty of times before) monogamy is a side effect of thousands of years of human jealousy. In an open relationship, that jealousy would still exist, regardless of how it is hidden. In a relationship where the cheating is behind closed doors, then the jealousy question is eliminated.

As for common groups of friends, etc leading to the GF finding out, of this guy has been cheating as Sir_Didier_Drogba says he is, and hasn't yet been caught, I imagine he is keeping it to flings outside of his social circle. Sir_Didier_Drogba, what city is this guy in? If it's a small city, I can see there would be much bigger danger on being found out. But I know of friends of mine, in Sydney, who have had random hookups etc on night's out with mates, and the chances of their gf or wife finding out are zero.

 

[Zlatan]

It's not jealousy, it's just that when you agree to go into a relationship with somebody you basically agree to be faithful. You can deny it all you want, but a romantic relationship brings responsibilities. It's true that this is based on morals created by human beings, but these morals are the very thing that make a relationship. We could be like animals and reproduce with everyone we meet, but civilization has gotten us to a point where you are expected to be faithful to your partner. If you can't be faithful, you shouldn't be in that relation in the first place and therefore make an end to it. If you're in a point in your life where you just want to go out and have sex with all kinds of girls, you shouldn't be in a relationship you should just be single. Being in a relationship with one girl, while you want to have sex with all kinds of girls can actually form a restraint than. Ending the relationship could than provide a lot of freedom and relieve to both parties. She, because she isn't cheated on anymore, and he, because he can do what he wants to do at this point of his life. Again I say this only on basis of personal experience and the information provided.