A bug!

[Bad Blue Boy]

Call me a fool, but, I've discovered, probably as most of you have, that the players are always running at a certain path, especially at through balls. Players always move to the point where the ball is going and controlling them to another point(for whatever reason, ball gets touched by the opponent for eg) seems useless. For example- I send a through ball to the wing to my partner, swich the player closest to him to rush to the first post in order to receive an easy pass-no, he gets pulled towards the through ball,and, gets pulled untill my partner actualy touches the fu(king ball, when it's usualy too late.
Maybe I'm mistaking, but this is the case. Maybe you don't get bothered by this, but I mostly enjoy playing in pair, as soccer is, at the end, a team sport, cooperation, little quarrels etc... It's fun!But, this is realy annoying!
In other hand, I understand that there are 16 directions, but, could there be 32??
One more thing that's annoying: If you play in pair, against the computer, both switched players close to the ball go for the ball and most of the time get in each others way, which ends up in losing the ball. You can only 'pull off' the player when the other one actually touches the ball, otherwise he gets magneted to the ball and you cannot controll him at all!! This is silly-it wasn't the case even in FIFA.
I want full control, not partial!

 

[pokwang]

I dont have PES, but you seems to be using semi-auto. Switch to manual control.

 

[arthur]

No, Bad Blue Boy is right and it makes no difference if you play in manual or semi-automatic player switching.

There are numerous occassions when the player you are supposed to be controlling goes off on a run towards the ball when you don't want him to and you can't actually control him at all for a few seconds. It happens in both attack and defence and sometimes at crucial moments which cost you a goal.

It also happens irrespective of whether you are playing in a pair with the computer, in single player mode or 2 player mode.

I've referred to these scripted routines before - they were present in previous ISS games and are still there in PES. It's a real shame as it does mean you don't have complete control at all times. I still hope that as KCET further develop the game, they will iron out these glitches.

 

[Neutral LFC]

[pause] I played a 3 on 3 match up with 5 mates on the weekend and we didn't seem to have any switching problems and I don't have any problems that lead to goals when I play single player either. The CPU does have control over your players to a certain degree but once you get used to the game it's really a non-issue - it certainly doesn't lead to me conceding goals. Furthermore, if you had FULL control of the players then what would then differentiate a slow but SMART player (like Batistuta) and a faster but not as good player (eg. Craig Bellamy)? The slight CPU control of players makes offensive and defensive awareness actually matter, if you took this out then you have Fifa where a fast player is ALWAYS better than slow player.

I'd say play more often and practice but then people would tell me to shove off, so yeah, it's a bug in the game.....just like the free kicks that everyone said were IMPOSSIBLE a few months ago but are now much better at.

 

[LaBrujita]

Originally posted by Neutral LFC
[pause] I played a 3 on 3 match up with 5 mates on the weekend and we didn't seem to have any switching problems and I don't have any problems that lead to goals when I play single player either. The CPU does have control over your players to a certain degree but once you get used to the game it's really a non-issue - it certainly doesn't lead to me conceding goals. Furthermore, if you had FULL control of the players then what would then differentiate a slow but SMART player (like Batistuta) and a faster but not as good player (eg. Craig Bellamy)? The slight CPU control of players makes offensive and defensive awareness actually matter, if you took this out then you have Fifa where a fast player is ALWAYS better than slow player.

I'd say play more often and practice but then people would tell me to shove off, so yeah, it's a bug in the game.....just like the free kicks that everyone said were IMPOSSIBLE a few months ago but are now much better at.

well said. i play we2000 (isspe2), and people bitch about the same thing in that. The thing is these "bugs" are often done on purpose. But on the other hand this could be fixed in future versions with dumb players make useless runs or no runs etc. But I'm in no mood to get into that.
Do they have a workrate rating in PES? (this of course would apply to what we're talking about)

 

[Edward_ Black]

'Do they have a workrate rating in PES? (this of course would apply to what we're talking about)'
........................................................................................................
ok, here is what is scribed in the 'Book of Truth', and i havn't yet cross checked these entries against what the selections are within the game so if anybody finds any thing that is out of synch here, please don't nuke my email with nasties, this is all 'as is' from the game manual.. Ned
........................................................................................................
Abilities:
Offence
Defence
Body Balance
Stamina
Speed
Acceleration
Response
Dribbling Ability
Dribbling Speed
Short and long range passing ability and passing speed
Shooting Power
Accuracy
Jumping Power
Heading Ability
Technique (Ball handling ability)
Curving Ability
Initiative (Tendancy to parcipitate in the front line)
Mentality
Stability (Stable Health)
Free Kick Ability
Teamwork (Pass Connecting Ability)
.........................................................................................................
Special Abilities.
A player may posses any number of Special Abilities.
......................................................................................................
Offensive Abilities.
Dribbler.. Dribbles the ball well.
Post Player .. Often makes post plays. I would imagine that this is means that this type of player is good at making runs onto the near or far posts.
Scoring .. Performs well in key plays in front of goal.
Command .. Other players perform well when in possession of the
ball. <The Command player or the players with lesser ability ?>
Double Feint .. Can use both feet to dribble.
PK Taker .. High success with penalties.
One on One shooting .. Strong when going one on one against the keeper.
Long Throws .. Can make long throw ins.
Direct Play .. Improved direct play ability.
Outside .. This one was pointed out a short while back in regard to the manual being WRONG, Outside means the ability to use the outside of the slipper, er er feet. The manual states that it is having the ability to make plays down the outside of the pitch which is WRONG.
........................................................................................................
Defensive Abilities.
Man to Man .. Good at man to man defence.
Defensive line Leadership .. Can hold the defensive line together.
Sliding .. Good at slide tackling.
Pass Cutting .. Good at cutting off passes.
.........................................................................................................
Goalkeeping Abilities.
Feed Kicking .. Good at kicking the ball in a low arc.
One on One Goalkeeping .. Good at stopping shots when going one on one with a kicker.
PK Keeper .. Good at stopping Penalties.
........................................................................................................
Injury Resistance .. There are 3 levels A-B-C

 

[Bad Blue Boy]

O.k., some of you din't quite understand me. What I said had nothing to do with speed, control over the ball, or off the ball cpu control of player at their certain abillities, it only has to do with control over the player in this specific situations. Let me repeat(for ex.):
A) You send a through ball to the wing player. You see that the ball is getting cut off by the defender and you want to slightly change the direction of your winger in order to get to the ball before the opposing defender-this is imposible, as you can only run in the directon of the point where the through ball in flowing.
you have the ball at the certain point on the pitch and, switch two players(pair play) closest to the ball. Both of them get drawn to the ball, although, if you for example see that your partner is closer to the ball and you want to pull your player to a free space or wherever-it's impossible, they both rush to the ball and until one of them gets to the ball, it's impossible to control the other one. It's stupid DOT
This, I repeat, has nothing to do with player abillities, practice or whatever team you play with!!!

 

[Bad Blue Boy]

Not to mention that many times a player receiving the pass just stands there and doesn't run towards the ball, no matter how hard you press the direction button and how intensively you pull you hair watching him just stand there, and th ball being cut off.
I'm sorry if you think I'm wrong, but...
I've played Fifa for years and this year, actualy 2 months ago, I started playing this PS2 PES issue and it's a faaaaaaaaaaar better game then fifa, it's beyond any fu(king kind of comparison,PES is a brilliant, almost perfect game, but, these things are a slight problem that I beleive can be fixed!
If we would compare bugs and fu(k ups in Fifa & PES it would be a 95:5 score!
PES does rule, you know!!! hehe

 

[cymonguk]

YEp

I havent got PES but PE2 and the same things happen in PE2. Usually I find that I can judge if a player is going to get to a ball if he isnt then I would sometimes prefer to "back off" and let the CPU get the ball but get myself into a better defensive position. However the CPU magnetises my player toward the ball even though Im on Manual and try to move him away, sometimes this leads the attacker to scoot past my defender whereas if ID been allowed to do what I wanted I would have been ready to block him out.

This isnt due to bad play on my part or players ability..

 

[pokwang]

Ahh, the gravitating throughball is still there? Shame on Konami. You know you can cut-off the defender but noooo the player keeps running away from the ball no matter how hard you hammer the joypad....Probably the worst bug in the ISS series. With one player its still tolerable but coop both players get sucked? Damn ugly bug!

 

[arthur]

I recall previously mentioning the ISS Pro 2 problem where, occassionally, the player you pass to just stands there waiting for the ball to reach him and you can't move him towards the ball. Meatime, the opposition casually stride in and intercept the pass. It also happened on some high balls in ISS Pro 2 where you couldn't actually move your player and so the AI guy won the header.

The replies I got on this forum were "practise harder", "the problem doesn't exist", "it's just your fault cos you don't know how to play the game".

Then PES comes out and lo and behold, KCET have introduced the R2 button specifically to allow you to move your player when there is a high ball. Funny how we need a special key for that when, apparently, the problem never existed in the first place.

Bad Blue Boy is perfectly correct in what he says. The problems he refers to occur irrespective of any of the players attributes. It's a fundamental glitch in the game. The idea that it is not important that you are able to control all of your players all of the time is patently ludicrous. It's akin to having a driving game where, on occassion, the CPU decides that it will take over the steering for a couple of seconds resulting in your car going off the track.

The problem with your players going off on those annoying little trances repeats itself throughout the game with monotonous regularity. The worst situation is when the AI team play a through-ball through the midfield and defence and the guy you are supposed to be controlling sets off, heading directly towards the ball. Unfortunately, you cannot stop him or change his direction. Meantime, the AI attacker is running through and is clearly going to get to the through ball first. You wish to change your players direction so that you can head back towards goal and try to cut off the AI attackers diagonal run towards goal but the CPU does not allow you to regain control of your player until such time as the AI guy has already got the ball and has a good few yards start. The AI guy is clean thorugh on goal and sometimes, this results in a goal although to be honest, he usually panics and misses anyway.

Other people have posted about this exact point before. Some of the glitches in the game are unimportant but there are some which clearly need tidying up.

 

[MisterX_K]

i agree with your problems to a certain extent. i play on level 5 AND i defend ALMOST only with the X,the [] and the R1 buttons pressed at the same time. DOES work BEST for me.

SOMETIMES the player i wanna pass to does not come towards the ball. aight, frustrating since PE2.
BUT someone stated here that this has something to do with response of the receiving player AND with the situation the passing player is in when passing, i.g. a quick out-of-control pass results in the receiver only standing around, waiting for the ball coming to him.

also when i play the game i dont really experience any bugs that piss me off in any way. there is a little problem tho...sometimes my cpu controlled WING BACK just stands around when a forward with the ball is running straight at him while i control a defensive midfielder (running behind that forward) and while another player on my team does attack that forward from upper side or down side (remember, i press X+[]+R1 always). the aforementioned WING BACK however does not move an inch although he MIGHT have stealed the ball easily from the forward IF HE HAD MOVED!
PERHAPS this has something to do with the DEFENSE TYPE i play.
i usually do NOT man mark nor the first option.
so it is quite possible THAT THIS ONE is my personal bad and i just have to adjust DEFENSIVE TACTICS. anyone?

as me and my homies never play coop play we naturally dont feel the problem you have, bad blue boy. we really dont need any coop play as there is tournament and round robin which is easily sufficient.

ONE THING EVERYBODY I KNOW WHO HAS THE GAME IS CRYING FOR KONAMI:

EUROPEAN LEAGUES WITH QUALIFICATION FOR UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE AND UEFA CUP. AND WE WANT A CREATION/EDIT CENTRE EXACTLY LIKE IN FIFA 2002!

i dont count how often i have said this by now and probably y'all are bored but SORRY i try to convince KONAMI reps while hoping they'd actually take a look at this board.

LETS TRY TO MAKE THEM LISTEN!

 

[Han]

Originally posted by MisterX_K
i agree with your problems to a certain extent. i play on level 5 AND i defend ALMOST only with the X,the [] and the R1 buttons pressed at the same time. DOES work BEST for me.

You press them all at the same time? What does that do?

 

[MisterX_K]

Alrite Han I tell you

press X (you dont even have to direct the player with the dpad/analog stick) to make the player YOU control to attack the opposition player with the ball. also press R1 thus your player runs fast.
press [] to make a CPU controlled player of YOUR team attack the opposition player with the ball.
you can combine all three buttons to do all the stuff at the same time.
this works so great and is the best way for me to defend.

 

[the_man]

BBB, I understand what you are saying.

Although it has been 3 weeks since I last played PES I do remember times when I see the ball was played off the opponent, my player is running to it and I'm like why are you wasting your energy, it's going to be a goal kick and the attacker is no where in site, start heading upfield but the CPU has it's say. Also on the thru ball, the player seems to vere off to a set angle and until he gets the ball ( or it goes out of bounds ), he will not divert from his path. This is a good thing and can be a bad thing.

A good thing: Trust me, we have enough problems getting the direction of a shot, coming towards the ball and the game only gives us atmost 12 directions of control (when full out sprinting), you don't want to think of what angle will take you to the ball the fastest with this kind of control mechanism. Now if the "360" analog stick would work like it says it this would not be an issue.

A bad thing: Sometimes the ball is not worth chasing...or you just dont' want to chase it. How many of us can recall this scenario...ball goes off the opponent, it's going out for a corner kick, your defender is relentlessly chasing the ball, and the timing is such that he gets the ball just as it gets to the line and his initial touch, ofcourse, puts the ball over the line for a needless corner kick. More control has to be given to the user controlling the player.

However, it is a grey area that SEABASS is dealing with. There is a thin line btw where you want the user to control things and where you want the CPU to take over. So far Konami is closer to finding this line than any other company that makes soccer games. And they will only get closer.

 

[arthur]

Re: Alrite Han I tell you

Originally posted by MisterX_K
press X (you dont even have to direct the player with the dpad/analog stick) to make the player YOU control to attack the opposition player with the ball. also press R1 thus your player runs fast.
press [] to make a CPU controlled player of YOUR team attack the opposition player with the ball.
you can combine all three buttons to do all the stuff at the same time.
this works so great and is the best way for me to defend.

Yeah, that's my way of defending and it's very effective. I also release the R1 button shortly before your player makes the actual challenge in order to slow him down. This way, there is more chance he will keep closer control of the ball rather than the ball pinging away about 10 yards and another opposition player getting to the loose ball first.

 

[MisterX_K]

the_man, actually that one scenario you was talkin about duz happen only rarely in PES when i play.
if such scripted things happen however it aint destroyin the fun IMO what i mean is basically i just think '****' and thats about it.
i aint really feelin all the people here that are cryin so much about these minor gripes. i dont even beg for them to be fixed.

btw, why dont you play PES no more? you on the move or something? cuz yesterday you was moderator of this forum and now you aint no more...

 

[the_man]

Originally posted by MisterX_K
the_man, actually that one scenario you was talkin about duz happen only rarely in PES when i play.
if such scripted things happen however it aint destroyin the fun IMO what i mean is basically i just think '****' and thats about it.
i aint really feelin all the people here that are cryin so much about these minor gripes. i dont even beg for them to be fixed.

btw, why dont you play PES no more? you on the move or something? cuz yesterday you was moderator of this forum and now you aint no more...

My comments were not geared to say that I was not having fun with the game. Anyone who knows me knows I am an avid (inactive albeit ) PES fan. However the game is not perfect and some of the suggestions here could make the game better. No one will argue that Konami's PES is the best football sim out there and I'm saying they are only going to get better with time.

I'm on vacation and it will soon end. I should be back online in full force monday or tuesday. cheers

 

[Carver]

I would argue, but I have better things to do...

 

[LaBrujita]

I think it comes down to the fact that the gameplay and physics of the game and games in general are not where they could or should be. But this "bug" or "bugs" are not so much bugs but an answer for very complex gameplay factors that haven't entered games yet.
I think these are simply primitive ways of showing real football situations.
Real life: The player having makes a hard run through the middle or down the wing and the ball is played, but there's a very clever defender who reads the pass and simply steps in front.
The forward is running full tilt the opposite direction, chances are he wont be able to read the defenders read and step in front of his step in, if you konw what i mean.
In a video games it is difficult to not only have the ai but the graphics to show this players making is run and going flying by the defender who has the ball and makinga quick turn. So in iss he continues to sprint, unfortunately unrealistically long, but he would go past in real life. I think this is better (rewarding intelligent defense) than the player immediately coming to a stop and being able to take the ball back, or attempt to.

This make any sense to you guys?

As for the statue tactic to recieve a target pass while the defender simply steps in front, this is also like my other example.
A ball is played to someone with their back to the defense, his plan is to recieve it and turn immediately or perhaps not even tough the ball maybe a stepover turn. But as from above the defender reads this or reacts sooner and steps in front. Bad communication by the passer, smart defending, but again not shown very well. With improved grphics we may get the same feel, but we dont, we get the feel of a bug, i've felt it, nad it's annoying but if you think about it in this way it makes a lot more sense and see the reasoning and realism. Maybe you disagree. Either way i dont want to sound like half the other iss fanatics in saying that i've played this hours and hours over the past few months (tlaking isspe2) and i knwo when and when not to do these passes and which players are cpapable of avoiding it and so on....

tell me if im wrong