PES4 stats related with FM2005 characters 1 by 1,IMO

The following is the factors in CM contributed to PES. I'm requiring feedback before I release my final version.

v0.8.2
Basic Settings

attack : movement, vision, finishing, wingback for SB
defense : positioning, marking, tackling
balance : balance, strength
stamina : stamina
top speed : pace
acceleration : acceleration
response : reflexes for GK, anticipation for outfielder
agility : agility
dribbling accuracy : dribbling, technique
dribbling speed : dribbling, pace
short pass accu : passing, technique
short pass speed : passing, long shots, strength
long pass accu : passing, crossing, long shots
long pass speed : passing, crossing, long shots, strength
shoot accuracy : finishing, technique
shoot power : long shots, strength
shoot technique : flair, technique, finishing
freekick accuracy : freekicks, corners
curling : corner, crossing, technique
header : heading
jump : jumping, aggression*
technique : technique, first touch
aggression : off the ball, aggression
mentality : determination
play stability : important matches
goalkeeping skills :handling for GK, 50 for outfielders
teamwork : team work + communication for GK, team work for outfielder
condition stability : consistency, natual fitness
weak foot accuracy : leftfoot, rightfoot
weak foot frequency : flair, leftfoot, rightfoot
consitutution : injury proneness

after the basic caculation, restrict a little for most of the attribs using 'work rate'.
*'aggression' in 'jump' is a trade-off because SDK provide no 'height' to use.

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Special Skills

dribbling : dribbling, -vision, -teamwork
anti-dribbling goalie : dribbling, vision
post player : strength, header, balance
positioning : off the ball, anticipation
reaction : work rate, off the ball, aggression
ling positioning : off the ball, vision
scoring : finishing
playmaking : vision, decision, influence
passing : decision, passing
both feet feint : flair, dribbling
penalty taking : penalty
1 on 1 scoring : decision, finishing
long throw : long throw
one touch passing : first touch, passing
side : work rate, leftside, rightside, center
center : work rate, leftside, rightside, center
outside : flair, leftfoot, rightfoot
marking : marking
d-line control : influence, anticipation
sliding tackle : bravery, tackling
direct GK kick : kicking, throwing
penalty stopper : decision, reflexes
1 on 1 stopper : one on ones

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Positions

GK : goalkeeper
CBW : sweeper
CBT : defendercentral, defender+central
SB : defenderleft, defenderright, defender+leftside/rightside, defensivemidfielder+leftside/rightside
DMF : defensivemidcenter, defensivemidfielder+central
CMF : midfieldercentral, midfielder+central
SMF : midfielderleft, midfielderright, midfielder+leftside/rightside
OMF : attackingmidcenter, attackingmidfielder+central
WF : attackingmidleft/attackingmidright, attackingmidfielder+leftside/rightside, attacker+leftside/rightside
CF : attackingcentral, attacker+central

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I think when doing convertion, we can assume one player in PES4 is 'correct', such as Gerrard in Liverpool. Then we alter the weights of every factors to make the result to 'match' with the original stats.
just from my thought, please go say something.

I'd agree with a lot of that, but quite a few don't seem right to me.

A DML/DMR or wingback R/L should be a SB in PES. A winger in FM (AM R/L) should be a WF, if they can play M R/L they should be a SMF also. An OMF in PES is an AMC in FM.

Im not going to bother saying about all of those others but I just find some of those a bit strange, for example what marking has nothing at all to do with 'playing no through balls'.

thank you.
i didn't play fm2005/cm, just getting my list from the guide. i post it to call for discussion. the convertion now is not good enough, although it's very good one.

i believe, the 'balance', 'shoot power', and the talent skills need to be tweaked.

the attachments are some sample players' characters in FM2005.

part 2.

There is no proper way of getting shot power from FM, as its not in the game, apart from the PPMs you mentioned (Hits Free Kick With Power, Shoots Long, Shoots With Power), which would mean the player has a some power in their shooting.

in the version X of wolf's patch, Morientes has shoot power of 70, instead of 57. i didn't see other changes.
don't know what changes behind the value increase.

'Injury proneness' matches 'constitution', is it right?
In version X, Sinama-Pongolle has 'Injury Proneness' of 13, but his 'constitution' is A. Baros was made a 7 to 'B' conversion.
Is it a bug, or I'm wrong.

balance (PES4) = strenght in CM maybe but ballance NOT. Ballance in CM is actually dribling ballance


short pass - pass, vision
short pass spd - strenght
long pass - crossing, vision
long pass spd - strenght


shoot accuracy - FINISHING for shure.

shoot power
finishing, long shot, acceleration, strength, Shoots With Power

shoot technique
finishing, technique, Tries First Time Shots, Attempts Overhead Kicks

Jump - as though CM doesnt have height of the player all high player would automaticly get 99.

play stability - CONCENTRATION, consistency

curling - Curls Ball,

agression
AGRESSION, decisions, bravery, Stays Back At All Times(-)

team work ability
TEAMWORK, leadership, communication(GK), work rate

mentality
COMPOSURE, determination, important matches, versatillity, leadership

condition stability - nothing from cm suites me here...

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special abilities - i will write only these that i think are convertable. For the rest of them i dont have any idea


Dribbling
Tries Tricks

Reaction
Gets Forward Whenever Possible

Line possitioning
Likes To Try To Beat Offside Trap


Passing
Looks For Pass Rather Than Attempting To Score, Tries Killer Balls Often

Scoring
Places Shots

1-1 Scoring
one on ones, Likes To Lob Keeper, Likes To Round Keeper

Playmaking
Dictates Tempo

Side
Runs With Ball Down Left, Runs With Ball Down Right (though i dont really know how it works in cm - if it was in earlier converters it shouldnt be here at all)

Centre
Runs With Ball Through Centre (though i dont really know how it works in cm - if it was in earlier converters it shouldnt be here at all)

1-Touch pass
first touch

Outside
Uses Outside Of Foot, Hits Free Kick With Power, Shoots Long

Marking
Marks Opponent Tightly, Stays Back At All Times

D-Line Control
leadership(CBT)

1-on-1 stopper
one on ones



uuffff all for now - i will write something later maybe

condition stability - nothing from cm suites me here...

Click to expand...

Natural fitness I guess would be the closest.

Originally posted by scoham
Natural fitness I guess would be the closest.

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perhaps You are right

why not wait for we8:le and convert that games updated stats to pes4 and we8:i

maybe 'one on one' should be a 'goalkeeper' only skill. I found no other non-gk players except for Baros have 'one on ones' skill.
Then I think Baros could be a good GK too, especially for one on ones.

Originally posted by Pablo_el
balance (PES4) = strenght in CM maybe but ballance NOT. Ballance in CM is actually dribling ballance

Click to expand...

quote from fm2005's official doc:
"Balance (absolutephysical)
How well he keeps his balance when challenged."
So I believe the main meaning of 'balance' is the same in two sides. But pes4 takes more intention to 'strength' to make the game balance between attack and defense, and pes4 has no 'strength' attribute.

short pass - pass, vision
short pass spd - strenght
long pass - crossing, vision
long pass spd - strenght

Click to expand...

not agree on the 'vision' for accuracy. 'Vision' is 'creative', while accuracy is a technique issue.
"Vision (relativemental)
How good he is at recognising players in good positions to pass to (Creativity)."

shoot accuracy - FINISHING for shure.

shoot power
finishing, long shot, acceleration, strength, Shoots With Power

shoot technique
finishing, technique, Tries First Time Shots, Attempts Overhead Kicks

Click to expand...

a bit disagreement: 'shoot technique' in pes4 means 'can shoot at hard time, hard position' in my opinion.

Jump - as though CM doesnt have height of the player all high player would automaticly get 99.

Click to expand...

maybe it's not true. in pes4 jumping has more meanings than height. Hamman has a height of 189, but his 'jumping' in fm2005 is only 9.

play stability - CONCENTRATION, consistency

Click to expand...

am i make wrong exchange for 'play stability' and 'condition stability'? poor...

curling - Curls Ball,

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few players have 'curls ball' ppm...

agression
AGRESSION, decisions, bravery, Stays Back At All Times(-)

team work ability
TEAMWORK, leadership, communication(GK), work rate

mentality
COMPOSURE, determination, important matches, versatillity, leadership

condition stability - nothing from cm suites me here...

__________________________________________
special abilities - i will write only these that i think are convertable. For the rest of them i dont have any idea


Dribbling
Tries Tricks

Reaction
Gets Forward Whenever Possible

Line possitioning
Likes To Try To Beat Offside Trap


Passing
Looks For Pass Rather Than Attempting To Score, Tries Killer Balls Often

Scoring
Places Shots

1-1 Scoring
one on ones, Likes To Lob Keeper, Likes To Round Keeper

Playmaking
Dictates Tempo

Side
Runs With Ball Down Left, Runs With Ball Down Right (though i dont really know how it works in cm - if it was in earlier converters it shouldnt be here at all)

Centre
Runs With Ball Through Centre (though i dont really know how it works in cm - if it was in earlier converters it shouldnt be here at all)

1-Touch pass
first touch

Click to expand...

Outside
Uses Outside Of Foot, Hits Free Kick With Power, Shoots Long

Click to expand...

most widely misunderstood skill. 'outside' has no meaning of 'shoot outside of the box'.

Marking
Marks Opponent Tightly, Stays Back At All Times

D-Line Control
leadership(CBT)

1-on-1 stopper
one on ones

Click to expand...

in the current version, players with high stats have too many special skills. i prefer they are more 'normal'.

uuffff all for now - i will write something later maybe

Click to expand...

quote from fm2005's official doc: "Balance (absolutephysical) How well he keeps his balance when challenged." So I believe the main meaning of 'balance' is the same in two sides. But pes4 takes more intention to 'strength' to make the game balance between attack and defense, and pes4 has no 'strength' attribute.

Click to expand...

balance IS strength in PES4 and balance I woould like strengh to be way more meaning than ballanceto avoid stupidity like Henrys 99 !
"How well he keeps his balance when challenged" - i think that this is the key to understand CM ballance. In pes it also means challanging opponent not only defending from challange.

not agree on the 'vision' for accuracy. 'Vision' is 'creative', while accuracy is a technique issue. "Vision (relativemental) How good he is at recognising players in good positions to pass to (Creativity)."

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creativit in PES is in only one attribute - teamwork. And one special skill - playmaking.

But vision in CM is also dribling vision, passing vision and so on. If vision would be in all pes stats all (theoreticly it should) good players would have playmaking passing and v.high teamwork. I dont have to tell You that it is not a good idea And this is why I put vision in passing because there it would make sense to use it. And it is so important stat that it would be hard just to forget about it

(BTW all true mental skills in pes are mentality, teamwork and aggresion)

a bit disagreement: 'shoot technique' in pes4 means 'can shoot at hard time, hard position' in my opinion.

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in my opinion it mostly affects volleys and first time shots (accuracy AND power). I made one mistake though in those 3 stats. Shot power should look like this

shoot power
long shot, Shoots With Power

Sorry for mistake - i copy/pasted to much stuff

maybe it's not true. in pes4 jumping has more meanings than height. Hamman has a height of 189, but his 'jumping' in fm2005 is only 9.

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yes and no. For ex. Hamman (72 in pes) would easily win header with roberto carlos (who jumps quite well) thanks to his height. But he would loose with for ex Gallas 181cm and 85 jump...

am i make wrong exchange for 'play stability' and 'condition stability'? poor...

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play stability - I think that it is some kind of factor/multiplier that affects all players actions not only his form. Look at Recoba for ex. He has very high stats but he has play stability 2 so abt 50% (or sth) of his actions are less efective than they should.

few players have 'curls ball' ppm...

Click to expand...

Curling would be pain to convert then :/ Maybe free kick accuracy or sth then? Crossing and technique are not relevant in my opinion. Curling in pes is mostly used from free kicks and a bit long shots

most widely misunderstood skill. 'outside' has no meaning of 'shoot outside of the box'.

Click to expand...

test Xavi - poor shot tech, poor power and though he can shoot very well from distance

in the current version, players with high stats have too many special skills. i prefer they are more 'normal'.

Click to expand...

You are right. But maybe the special ability would be applied if the ability in CM is maxed? The special abilitis should be rare but not totaly avoided I think that for most known players Konami gave right special abilities - maybe the best thing to do is to leave them alone?

I gave an solution for special skills, updated at the top. and the attachment is the result of Liverpool and Juventus. Is it better?

juventus

Sliding, Both Foot Feint, 1-touch pass, Playmaking, Passing, Position need to be rethought in my opinion

Sliding - why every defender has to have sliding? It is very rare ability in PES because it is very good. And there is no single defender in PES that has marking and sliding an d-line...

Both Foot Feint, 1-touch pass - all Juve players have BFF? Sth is not right here

Playmaking, Passing - there are about FIVE players in PES that have both abilites. It doesnt feel right giving them to almost all good midfilders. Only the best should have them.

Position - it is a VERY rare feature of the best attackers ONLY. So why so many players have them here? Is Emerson so good that he deserves to position as well as Raul???


Conclusion -> Special features should be very special !

Sliding, Both Foot Feint, 1-touch pass, Playmaking, Passing, Position need to be rethought in my opinion

Sliding - why every defender has to have sliding? It is very rare ability in PES because it is very good. And there is no single defender in PES that has marking and sliding and d-line...

Both Foot Feint, 1-touch pass - all Juve players have BFF? Sth is not right here

Playmaking, Passing - there are about FIVE players in PES that have both abilites. It doesnt feel right giving them to almost all good midfilders. Only the best should have them.

Position - it is a VERY rare feature of the best attackers ONLY. So why so many players have them here? Is Emerson so good that he deserves to position as well as Raul???


Conclusion -> Special features should be very special !

My principle is 'let the characters not listed in PES be the main factors for the special skills'. It's very hard to make it excatly matched, you know.

Sliding tackle - tackling+bravery>34?
Then John Welsh has no. In PES4, 5 players in Liverpool have this ability.

Both foot feint - flair>17 AND flair+dribbling>32?
Then only Nedved, Ibrahimovic and Mutu in Juventus, Kewell in Liverpool have the ability.

Playmaking - vision>18 AND vision+influence>34?
Then nobody in Liverpool and Juventus has. Zidane has. I think 'vision' instead of 'anticipation' is better for 'playmaking' match.

Passing - passing+vision+decision>47?
Then Kapo, Hamman has no.

Position - movement>17 AND anticipation>15?
Then Nedved, Ronaldo, Raul has.

1-touch - first touch>17?