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Old 19-12-2011, 01:23:PM   #14
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Yeah, I kept seeing very good players in the Olympics, was kind of surprising given that most teams object to having their players go.
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Old 19-12-2011, 09:00:PM   #15
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Well, not only that, but the Olympics are held during Euro years too, so usually those players are playing all summer.

I played as Spain once too, and got knocked out by Brazil in the Semi Finals. I picked realistic designated players, I think like Mata, Busquets, and someone else. Brazil picked Pato, Maicon, and Hulk. I nearly **** myself seeing them up against my young and not very good Spanish defense.
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Old 20-12-2011, 11:27:PM   #16
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Hey uh... yoyo, do you have any tips about using a flat 4-4-2? I'm tired of running a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 on every game I play and think this could be a fun change. How do you get it working? Play narrow, direct passing? I feel like the CMs can't charge forward, so no AP-As because it will kill your positioning, probably ideally something like BWD-D and DLP-S, and then a Treq or similar as one of the forwards next to a poacher. What else?
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Old 21-12-2011, 04:18:AM   #17
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I posted a screenshot of the formation roles I use a few posts up (on the 17th). I originally created the formation with classic but I then created one with roles that roughly follow the same forward run/ run with ball/ mentality/ passing settings.

For defense I use the full backs on support and a stopper+cover CB partnership (but this can be changed). The wingers are placed more behind than a 4-3-3, giving them more space to run into. In centre mid I have to say that you must have a player with no forward runs instruction (but with good passing) and a playmaker who is also decent at defending. For forwards I would go with a deep lying/ advanced forward combo.

The way I play the 442 initializes attacks from (1)the wings,(2) the forward dropping back, (3)the playmaking CM. If the opponents play very defensive having smart fullbacks also helps.
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Old 21-12-2011, 04:45:AM   #18
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I'm actually surprised with the early success I'm having at Fiorentina using a flat 4-4-2, and this is with Montolivo, Jovetic, and Vargas all missing some or all of the games. The key to me seems to be concentrating entirely on defense and defensive positioning. Only then can you think about attack. Narrow and compact 2 banks of 4 are incredibly difficult even for the best sides to break down, and I think for intelligent and quick passing, this is the best I've ever had. Most of my 4-3-3 and varients get goals from players dribbling well, but this tactic seems to utilize spacing very well. I'm really intrigued. Never EVER thought I'd play a flat 4-4-2. I think where I got tripped up initially is that I was asking one of my CMs to play too much of an attacking role. It really seems like there are only 3 combinations: DLP/BWM, DLP/BBM, BWM/BBM, with one on support and one on defense. Anything else is probably a little doomed.
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Old 21-12-2011, 06:24:AM   #19
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I think a combo of CMs with run with ball and forward runs on rarely and one with those on sometimes is my preference. I got a little bored with the Vilarreal game because I messed up the transfers and squad rotation. I'm working on an entirely new formation. It is the past Chelsea 433 but roles that I think will be more deadly. I have midfield figured out but haven't figured out the single forward's or full backs best duties. I'll see how it works out and probably post about it later.

I'm probably going to use one of these two tactics in the Luch season.

Oh and about Fiorentina.. Jovetic would be one of my top picks in the world to play the more deeper secondary striker roles. If I remember I was interested in buying him because he's an elite young player not yet with a perennial CL team. I played my player (Rossi) with the Complete Forward Support role. Its set to Run with Ball often, Forward runs sometime and decent passing duties. Vargas is the type of player I like to test buying. I have a preference of buying wingers with good defensive attributes. He can bully the second half of the field and push around weaker opponents. If you look at one of my first posts it has the transfer of Tabanou who is my poor man's version of Vargas. Btw Tabanou has been getting consistent 7s for me.

Gilardino is a classic poacher and goal hunter. Great for partnering Jovetic. In FM12 I noticed its good to have a good dribbler in this role however. In my opinion its half off the ball run chances and half of the chances they have to create themselves.

Montolivo is great for the support CM. He has really good defensive attributes for being such a good passer IMO. In past FMs I found this role deadly however I had Borja Valero in this playmaking role and was one of my most talented players, yet he didn't contribute enough as imagined.

Cassani is good FB, Behrami I would try as Def CM. Cerci is good as back up winger. I just had a quick look at the squad and thought I'd give my take. I haven't figured out Defense too much but if you come up with a good system tell me. I had my wingers with close down rarely and man marking which made them chase down the opposing winger making a run so it was like an extra line of protection of the wings which is a very nice commodity to have. I like having one CB close down quicker just to apply pressure because there's no DM. Figuring out the CMs defense is a little tough too. Ideally I would like to have a Iniesta type in attack with good passing and dribblin but with Gattuso like tracking because this player will make it forward more. The other CM would be perfect as a Busquets who slides in to make up for empty space formed by his teammates. Actually Busquets had nice passing too so he might be perfect for this role haha.
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Old 21-12-2011, 06:37:AM   #20
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Yeah, I was looking for a team with some young talent with room to grow and someone suggested that I try Fiorentina, and I thought it was a great idea. Then looked through the squad and it seemed born to play 4-4-2, and I didn't have transfer fees in the first season anyway. I think I'll try Jovetic as a CF-S, didn't think of that, but it might work better than Treq, although that is working alright. Gilardino is exactly what you said, he finishes chances that others create, usually Vargas and Jovetic.

Speaking of Vargas, I think the physical monster is the best type of winger in a flat 4-4-2 because he can sit back and play defense too, so Maggio or Dani Alves would be ideal on the right, and then probably Bale or Vargas on the left; another version of this would be Brek Shea for lesser sides.

Sadly, Adem Ljalic doesn't seem to fit in anywhere as a right footed left sided player, but I'll probably be able to retrain him. Anyway, it will be interesting; I'm going to have to tweak it each match more than I thought, I've been dominated my last couple although have escaped with draws.
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Old 21-12-2011, 07:06:AM   #21
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Haha, that sound like my game. I started out strong but started playing out and strong and then dipped.

With the RM on the other hand having someone like Pedro would be going with the ultimate classic RM. If only I could pry him from Barca.
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Old 26-12-2011, 09:52:PM   #22
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Nim, I did something extremely geeky with FM Scout.

I found a thread on SI forums where attribute weighting was figured out and calculated by geeks for general purposes. E.g. It costs more current ability points for a defender to have high marking than a forward. I then took these calculation and manually inserted them in the Rating Editor in FM Scout, because currently the creator of FM Scout pulled the ratings from his own @ss (he probably had a very educated guess tho). So in a way it scientifically adheres to the system of FM.

Unfortunately I lost this excel file I made but captured it in a screenshot. (oh I also devised training schedules based on this)



That shows how much value the attributes have in relation with one-another based on position. 0 being lowest, 6 highest. Messi, Xavi, and Rooney scored highest. Speed takes up most ability points.

Therefore both these players I created have the exact same CA (Current Ability)





The second player being the highest number of attributes (and best player) you can get with the current ability system. If I were to make him AMC instead of striker the attributes would take a hit.

I also did the attribute weighting backwards to figure out the player with most attributes out of his position. Dragomir(the second player) is calculably speaking the most you could get out of this (only mistake is not making his flair 20). Maicon, Gerrard, and Srna scored highest with real life players.
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Old 26-12-2011, 11:00:PM   #23
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That's really interesting. Shame that pace is so costly.
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Old 26-12-2011, 11:54:PM   #24
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I started a new game with Cesena because I used to have this tactic in FM06 that was the best in that game (IMO) and it never worked quite as well with FM10 and 11 but I tested it in FM12 and its done well in a Real Madrid test game. Beat Barca both super cup games.

I want to test it with a lower team so I decided to go with Cesena since they are a bottom team in the Serie A. They also have a squad with the roles to play the tactic but at a reduced ability. And Mutu!

The team is not rich and has no real prospects so it will be a fun venture. I`m only going to bring in 1 prospect defender from Senegal this year and that will be it. Usually I do more transfers but this way it should be a nice challenge. And there`s something endearing about using an original squad.

Its a crazy counter attacking tactic with quick link-ups up front.

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Old 27-12-2011, 01:01:AM   #25
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Yeah, I found the attribute weighting thing ad have been fiddling with it for a while. One correction is that Natural Fitness and Influence are 0 across the board, like Aggression, Determination and Flair.

Set-pieces are always 1, and Pace & Acceleration are the most draining.

The position with the most ease to get high positional rating is CB, any CB generated with good PA (175 or so) will have low 80s, pretty much. Mostly because no stat is as draining for them as with other positions (speed attributes don't drain as much). Defenders in general are like this, as are DMs, but because they tend to be generated with better dead-ball stats and generally need to be better overall to be worldclass (a WC fullback need to be good in attack and defense, a WC CB can just be good at defense).

Both of those strikers will be great, in different roles. Really, striker 2 has a lot of superfluous stuff that while excellent, won't really help him out. Not only that, but he has 20s in Tackling and Marking and Throw-Ins, but 17 in First Touch, Finishing, Composure, etc. I might prefer Striker 1.
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Old 27-12-2011, 06:40:AM   #26
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Willan from Shakhtar is a great player to buy this version of FM. Probably the best player you can buy for 8mil GBP.
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