WC Qualifying Play-off

[RobbieD_PL]

Šimunić's chant have nothing to do with Ustaše or Yugoslavian war, it is chant all fans shout in every international match (And I mean EVERY match) along side: "U boj, u boj, za narod svoj!" (Which calls for fight if you watch from historical perspective) and no one made any problem till now. It's the most common thing used to raise international charge.

Za dom spremni


If Croatia don't pass the group stage, match ban will reflect for Qualifying round for France 2016 or any official match, but yea, we can say it's effectively over. He already said before that Brazil will be his last.

Waldo I read the part about the Yugoslav wars from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Za_dom_spremni#Usage_after_breakup_of_Yugoslavia

U boj za narod svoj is also a very popular song in Japan.

HNS is going to appeal, so it may be less matches for Šimunić.

 

[Mus]

If the chants had nothing to do with Iceland, who or which group was Simunic overtly attacking?

The teams that also qualified for the world cup which they could potentially play in Brazil

 

[Waldo1639]

Waldo I read the part about the Yugoslav wars from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Za_dom_spremni#Usage_after_breakup_of_Yugoslavia

Well, HOS is different, it was organized army with some political goals from NDH, so to speak, some units were called from NDH, that's why HOS is also referred as Ustaše, only their main goals was to protect homeland (Croatia and Bosnia). Did they commit crime against Serbian invaders? Yes. So did Četnici. "Za dom i za poglavnika" is real Ustaša salute. "Za dom spremni" is characterized as criminal from the media.

U boj za narod svoj is also a very popular song in Japan.

haha, I heard it, it's funny.

HNS will try achieve repealing the ban.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

The teams that also qualified for the world cup which they could potentially play in Brazil

Yeh but it's not directly discriminatory against those specific teams/countries.

 

[Mus]

And it is to iceland?

 

[RobbieD_PL]

And it is to iceland?

Yeh, that's my point. Who or which group is it actually offensive to? Neither Iceland, nor any of their possible opponents at the 2014WC (only maybe BiH). In any case, if a chant happens during the game, the referee has the right to suspend the game. But it's ok to let the result pass if a racist/fascist/neo-Nazi chant happens after the final whistle?

And FIFA is only punishing Simunic when the Croatian crowd completed the chant. If there was any consistency, there should have been some punishment for the fans' behaviour too.

If the chant wasn't offensive/discriminatory to any specific group/team then Simunic shouldn't be banned. If the chant is offensive/discriminatory then there should be fan punishment aside from just the player. Iceland should have the grounds to appeal given the nature of fan behaviour in the stadium.

 

[Mus]

You can't take an incident outside of its situation - it was after the game therefore had nothing to do with the result of the game. If simunic after the whistle punched a few Iceland players they wpuldnt appeal the result

 

[RobbieD_PL]

You can't take an incident outside of its situation - it was after the game therefore had nothing to do with the result of the game. If simunic after the whistle punched a few Iceland players they wouldn't appeal the result

Not to be too facetious, but technically, racist banners/chants don't have anything to do with a result. It's when such banners/chants are directed to an opposing player on the pitch (see Russia vs Czechia @ EURO 2012) that they do become a graver problem. What if the 2nd leg had ended 0-0 too and Simunic started the chant, to get the crowd onside to support the team before a high-pressure shootout after 120mins? They're not punished because they directly affect a match outcome.

 

[Mus]

Exactly, which is why there is no grounds to reverse the result

 

[Waldo1639]

If the chant wasn't offensive/discriminatory to any specific group/team then Simunic shouldn't be banned. If the chant is offensive/discriminatory then there should be fan punishment aside from just the player. Iceland should have the grounds to appeal given the nature of fan behaviour in the stadium.

But chant wasn't offensive nor directed towards any specific team/group.

 

[Mandieta6]

What did the chant say?

 

[Waldo1639]

What did the chant say?

Za dom spremni
(For Homeland Ready)

 

[RobbieD_PL]

But chant wasn't offensive nor directed towards any specific team/group.

Yeh I know, so then Simunic shouldn't be punished.

I was never saying that Iceland should go to WC instead of Croatia; just trying to call FIFA out on it's judgement incompetence by taking action against a player for saying two words. And not the typical two word phrase you'd hear in English.

In Polish, za dom means "past/beyond the house".

Exactly, which is why there is no grounds to reverse the result

If they don't affect the result, why are they punished?

 

[chygry]

This is just a stupid discussion that will lead nowhere.

Robbie "kurwa"

 

[Mus]

Something doesn't have to affect the result to be punished, but it does have to affect the result for the punishment to involve alteration of the result

 

[RobbieD_PL]

I meant that in general terms. If racist banners/chants don't directly affect the match result; why do UEFA/FIFA go out of their way to punish such behaviour?

 

[Bobby]

To discourage that type of behavior.

 

[Mus]

Because they aren't referees they are an association?

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Yeh but the referees are affiliated to FIFA (via their national association?)

 

[Mus]

But they have different jobs and responsibilities?