The Wolf 2005 Option File BETA

verpakovskis

Youth Team
Please Help...

Hi Wolf ! Can you or someone send me a colour palette from your boots, please(what was included in your last pack). Because I have terrible colours with my boot-pack, but boots are very good. So help me please :) My e-mail is [email protected] Thanks.

John.
 

Canhoteiro

Club Supporter
Hi, this is my first post, i'm brazilian.
I think wolf's work is great, in brazilian foruns everyone likes them, great patches...
But I think he shouldn't use this CM Database, simply because it wasn't meant for being used in PES series.
In CM for exemple, a 80 value is really good, but in PES is a normal value, and there are a lot of players who are don't deserve normal values. Beckhams free kick for exemple, Wolf argued that wich 80s you should score what Beckham scores, but the truth is that beckham don't have 97 free kick accuracy because of the rating of scores/tries, he has this score because most of his free kicks goes on target, including on the head of the scorer from free kicks and corners. Score from a free kick is really hard, it is meant to be this way, even the top free kick scorer rarely scores more then 5-6 on a season. This is an exemple I used to ilustrate my way of thinking, in CM 80 is good, but in PES wich 80 you can't score like Beckham, perfect Free Kicks (even if the goalkeeper gets it). Also, Van Nistelrooy has 66 Shot Power. This is really unfair, it tries to be a way of saying Van Nistelrooy don't shoot is powerful as Adriano, he doesn't, but he shots really well, and who plays soccer knows that shotting with great strengh is more a matter of how you kick than how strong you kick. Sorry about the big post, but I don't think the CM database should be used, only for players who don't exist in the game...
It may be fair in most cases, but it is fair in a way PES don't accept, a guy who free kicks well but never scores in PES deserves 76-80 in CM he has 50, and for PES that's terrible, some for shot power, 66 in PES is horrible, in CM it may be fine because most players in CM have around this, but in PES most players have 70+, it's the normal in the game engine.
sorry for the long post and for my bad english.
see ya
 

jonz

Club Supporter
Canhoteiro, there is absolutely no problem in using CM data. Its just a question of using them correctly, and thats up to the CM to PES converter, and actually I think that EditPes4 is doing an absolute fantastic job in doing so. And with the FM support we have now, we'll get accurate stats.
All thanks to Yannick.

Cheers Yannick!!
BTW now you have come so far with your editor, how about being able to change salery and transfer sum from FM?
 

scoham

Youth Team
Shot power isn't in CM/FM, so Im not sure what stats are used for it? Obviously means it won't be completely realistic for stats that aren't in FM.
 

kschoice

Youth Team
Originally posted by scoham
Shot power isn't in CM/FM, so Im not sure what stats are used for it? Obviously means it won't be completely realistic for stats that aren't in FM.

Still there is a Long Shots ability in CM/FM.
 

Canhoteiro

Club Supporter
I don't think the stats are accurate at all...see this Van Nistelrooy Shot Power I said...he has 66 shot power. This is absurd...he is one of the top scorer in the world, he know how to kick a ball hard, just watch some manchester games...
I don't think the CM stats where meant to be used in PES, as I said 80 free kick accuracy may be good in CM, but it isen't in PES, almost nobody in the world hits the ball like Beckham, 97 is a fair stats, it doesn't meant he hits the target 97 porcent of times, it's just the measure the games uses. The question is not that the CM stats are wrong and Konami is right, is how they reflect in the game. You put CM stats in PES, and the stats will not reflect in PES as they reflect in CM, simple as that.
 

Pablo_el

Club Supporter
Originally posted by Canhoteiro
The question is not that the CM stats are wrong and Konami is right, is how they reflect in the game. You put CM stats in PES, and the stats will not reflect in PES as they reflect in CM, simple as that.
(Y) (Y) (Y)

PLEASE Wolf rethink convertiing all stats in your new opt file. Or at least make two versions.

Its not that all stats in PES4 are ideal though ;) Some changes are welcomed -> For ex Tristan is way to bad :kader:
 

TristanAbbott7

Starting XI
To make two versions would take forever especially as it would mean reverse engeneering the current version to get a seperate version without updated stats.

In regards to things like shot power, you consider 66 to be poor but you don't understand the scale it uses. 66 is still hard. The difference between 66 and 99 in the game is barely noticeable especially when you take into account technique and accuracy. It's not done on the same scale as something like acceleration where a 66 to a 99 is the difference between night and day. The same applies to jump ability, a 99 doesn't mean the player will jump to the sky anymore than a 66 for jumping would mean the player doesn't get off the ground. To put it into real life context, it literally translates to about 2 inches difference maximum every 10 points because even falsely giving a player 0 jumping height still doesn't take away all of their jump. The difference between 0 and 99 in jumping in real life is about 20 inches at the very most. Take into account good timing and the height of the player and even that becomes almost irrelevant much of the time.

Shoot as hard as you can with Van Nistelrooy and you'll see the ball still travels hard. The fact his accuracy is very high too makes the ball go on target at a good speed. Take into account you never really want to with 95% or more of the players approach anywhere near full power for shooting when shooting and you'll see that it's actually very realistic. Van Nistelrooy is not as good at shooting from long distance as Rooney who takes many great shots from long distance. But, you try and tell the difference in the game shooting hard from just inside the penalty area with Rooney and Van Nistelrooy and there's little difference if any that you can notice.

Some of you are freaking out over the stats conversion when you don't really understand the scale within the game that is used and how it differs from attribute to attribute. Morientes is another player in the game with what appears to be low shot power but I played a friendly game earlier yesterday to mirror the real life game Man Utd played against Liverpool (something sad I always do!!!) and Morientes scored a screamer against me from just outside of the area. If anything, it's sometimes easier to score a medium distance goal (15-25 yards out) with a 60-75 strength shooter because you don't have to worry about stopping the shot power bar before it gets barely past half way. From within 15 yards, Van Nistelrooy is as deadly as he is in real life with these stats.

There will NOT be two versions. When you've played the final release for a few games you'll see what I'm talking about and all these apparently worrying stats will actually turn out to be ok and realistic. Then you'll see what I mean by scale.

To leave you with a final example, in real life scale, how big do you think the speed difference between professional players playing short (5-15 yards) passes is. Do you think a professional player can hit the ball so much harder than another professional player over 15 yards that you could actually tell the difference with the naked eye? There's probably not a pro. player in the world who can't hit the ball over 15 yards so hard that you'd need slow motion photography to tell the difference. Some may hit passes slower out of choice but certainly not out of ability which is what the stats in the game represent. So, in the game, as an experiment, make a player's short pass speed 50 and then make it 99. In the training ground see how much difference you can tell between them! It's all about a scale which is very small for some of these atrributes. Worry NOT!!!
 

RicFlair

Youth Team
Wolf, when can we expect the final version> and how much difference is it to the one you've just released with the fix?
 

Butters85

Club Supporter
I think what most people are worried about is the fact that some players arent given as much credit that they are due. For example, many including myself feel that Beckham is the best in the world at free kicks and long pass accuracy and probably curving as well, and yet his rating is lower than a lot of players. Zidane is given a FK accuracy of 96, but I dont think he's better at free kicks then Beckham. If he was, then Zidane would be taking free kicks for Real Madrid, not Beckham. Beckham also has near perfect long pass accuracy in real life, but his stats are not very high in the game. I know hes not as good as he used to be, but in those two areas, hes still the best. Also, we all know Steven Gerrard is really good at passing, short and long, and his shot power is high as well, but his stats are relatively low compared to other good players. It just seems that some stats are a little off.
 

TristanAbbott7

Starting XI
Originally posted by RicFlair
Wolf, when can we expect the final version> and how much difference is it to the one you've just released with the fix?

I'll release another BETA when I've updated all the stats to FM ones rather than the CM ones which were used in the first BETAs. (People who were concerned about players like Lampard's and Ronaldinho's stats in CM won't be worried when they see their stats in FM!)

When the new BETA comes out in the middle of the week, people need to go to the training ground section and play for 10-15 minutes with the old option file (before the CM stats) and with the new BETA and see how much difference there is. You'll find that there's no difference that ins't realistic and no difference that even remotely spoils any part of the game.

The final version should be out after the transfer window ends. I'll release an initial final BETA at the end of January for error/squad corrections and then the final version at the end of the first week of Feb.
 

Canhoteiro

Club Supporter
I agree wich what you say Wolf, but as the game may became more realistic, it will certainly become more boring...
The game engine doesn't consider the same facts that happen in real life, facts that made for exemple a team lose 5x0 against barcelona then win 5x0 against milan.
These things aren't supose to be like real life, it's impossible.
It's about what you can do wich the players potencial...
I love you patchs, but I can't use this CM database, is just to wrong...Tevez has 90+ in a lot of things, against Internacional of Porto Alegre he did terrible, not as close as in the olympics.
It's impossible to simulate football PERFECTLY in a game, because it's just to umpredictable. I think PES stats don't try to be perfect, some great players like Nedved or Totti have lots of yellow stats and a few orange stats, and they work just as good in the game as ronaldinho gaúcho. Kaká works great in the game, even only having 2 90s and a lot of 80s. The players are good in the game, the way the engine use their stats...is just too hard to explain in words, I hope you get it...
If you have put in your head that you will use CM database, no one can do anything, but I really think you shouldn't, I think stats based PES is not perfect, but it works great as it is...
 

Canhoteiro

Club Supporter
by the way, if you need anything to help wich the patchs, some brazilian transfers information, and classic players (i'm and expert about old football) just send me an email
 

TristanAbbott7

Starting XI
Originally posted by Butters85
I think what most people are worried about is the fact that some players arent given as much credit that they are due. For example, many including myself feel that Beckham is the best in the world at free kicks and long pass accuracy and probably curving as well, and yet his rating is lower than a lot of players. Zidane is given a FK accuracy of 96, but I dont think he's better at free kicks then Beckham. If he was, then Zidane would be taking free kicks for Real Madrid, not Beckham. Beckham also has near perfect long pass accuracy in real life, but his stats are not very high in the game. I know hes not as good as he used to be, but in those two areas, hes still the best. Also, we all know Steven Gerrard is really good at passing, short and long, and his shot power is high as well, but his stats are relatively low compared to other good players. It just seems that some stats are a little off.


Although I see your point, there is a lot of personal opinion thrown in there. Beckham is a great free-kick taker but his ratio of kicks to goals is not that high and I think that's what the stats take into account. A lot of people have actually said that overall Beckham's stats may be too high. As for Gerrard, the majority of his FM stats are in the upper 80's and 90's which is high enough given he still has a lot of development potential in his game. Putting him much higher stat wise would give him no room for improvement and stating that he's reached his best which is almost definitely not true in real life.

The FM stats are the best around by a long way. They are only given on a scale of 1-20 so each point is worth 5 in PES terms. However, there is still the fact that all of these stats are on a pretty tight scale rather than 0 being a non-existant ability and 99 meaning total perfection. Taking into account that something as basic as shooting will also be affected by technique, shot technique, balance, curving and maybe others other than just shot accuracy and shot power, a single stat doesn't really mean that is the absolute guide to performance in that area. Also there is a degree of randomness built in which means that players won't always perform something the same way under identical conditions. How many shots have people missed playing as Henry or Van Nistelrooy when they really should have scored?

The whole point of this option file as I've said before is to replicate realism as much as is possible. The Sports Interactive series of games have been well known for years to provide the best overall database available. I've played a lot of games with these BETA's and the FM stats will improve even further upon the CM ones. I played a number of games earlier today and it just feels overall a lot more down to earth. People were complaining that PES4 had almost gotten too arcadey or like pinball or even resorting to the feel of the FIFA games but this FM stats overall changes the feel of the game very positively. The stamina issue has been resolved in terms of players having low stats. The positions are realistic in terms of players have their main position and alternate positions they have played in real life or have the stats to perform in that position comfortably.

Anyway, when people have had a chance to play the next BETA and get used to it, they'll prefer it I'm sure.
 

kschoice

Youth Team
I'd like to point that The Wolf is not putting a gun to your head and asking you to play with his option file.
A lot of you seem to forget that people who spend time in PES patching do it for a better personal experience of the game, and are kind enough to make the results of their work available to those who may be interested.

If you're happy with the way PES 4 plays with original stats, The Wolf's option file ISN'T for you guys. It's tough, but true. Don't try to convince him Konami stats are wonderful, I don't think he'd spend this much time to modify them if he thought they made it for him.

Rather than moaning about getting two files from him, you should realize the time he already spends in this, and if you really want a file with the original stats, you should dedicate to do it yourself.

I provide you with a Windows editor for the game, of which, as you may not know, you can run two instances simultaneously. If you really want an option file with the original stats that bad, you can probably replicate the changes made in The Wolf's one in very less time it took him to make his.
 

ace_h

Club Supporter
hi Wolf,
i love your patch but i have one remark, i've noticed that some players have the wrong foot for ex: Cordoba from Inter is lefty but in reality he is right one.

i've noticed also Lijungberg,Maoulida etc...

but i'm probably wrong:rolleyes: ...and thks for all the job you do for us
 

jimbo118

Reserve Team
wolf will the spanish,italian,german french etc club teams numbers be up to date for final release as there are alot of 99's in the betas

also again is there any chance you could provide a list of your created players and where to find them

and are you using yannick's tool for transfers as i believe they show up in edit mode in their new team when transfered

also i read somewhere that if you wanted the stats as default you can make a param_dat.bin,how do you make 1 though?
 


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