The Poker Thread

Discussion in 'SG Players Lounge' started by Rob, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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    mid pocket pairs.....especially 10s and 9s. How do you guys approach these hands in the later stage of a SnG when you've got a stack slightly bigger than the average? Say when yer 2-4 players away from being at the final table and you're flagrantly out of position? It seems that these hands/scenarios are the most detrimental and ruinous for me aside from going to a Jihadist-like war with A/Q. I more often than not get crippled coming in with these midget pockets, man.


    If you make a huge raise/allin with them and get called, there's like a 30%+ chance of a higher ranked card being flopped and someone hitting it and as a result either wounding you badly or knocking you altogether the **** out of the tourney, you know? On the other hand, you can have everyone fold to you and you can pick up a decent pot uncontested, or even better, get called, set off the flop and double/triple up on some mother****ers......case in point.........


    http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/41514/2003593485561731978_rs.jpg

    http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/43012/2003527427707336136_rs.jpg

    folded 'em like the pussy bitch that I is, and now I'm fuming and tilted on my head as a result of it.....pivotal moment for me, that was, and I ****ed up, man..... woe is me....shove a running chainsaw up my ass!!
     
  2. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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  3. Jaboldinho

    Jaboldinho Fan Favourite

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    To that midpair question of oyurs, I'd say, call a reasonable raise, like in the pic and be careful, if after the flop you feel your opponent has outdrawn you or has a bigger pair, don't hesitate to check-fold it to the end, unless you make a set. You should call those small raises with a pair, as if you don't hit it, you just give the pot up and end up losing pretty little chips, but if you flop the set, the opponent usually makes a continuous-bet and if he has any kind of a hand, he's probably gonna call your all-in.

    And about the big tournaments, here's a little tip: When you play them, play some other tables too, so you don't get frustrated on not getting hands, and throw your money in the middle with marginal hands, and make bad plays.
     
  4. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

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    Play it aggressive. When you approach the bubble, that is the time you should be at your most aggressive when you are a big stack. You can scoop lots of blinds not wanted, and win lots of pots because smaller stacks are too concerned about making the final table.

    This really separates the men from the boys. Play it like you would normally play it. Depending on the size of your stack, and the blinds, sometimes the equilibrium play is too push.

    Basically, calculate someones bubble factor when playing and calculate yours. This is how you do it. First of all, you need to be able to calculate persons M (if you've read Harrington, that is the persons blinds + ante into stack size). So, Blinds of 100/200 and a stack of 3000 give you an M of 10. Then calculate theres, so it could be 1200, their M is 4. Bubble factor is this, bubble factor = potential loss / potential gain .

    Now, if you can calculate your bubble factor and his, this is how you should play.

    Bully on the Playground
    Your Bubble Factor is Low
    His Bubble Factor is High
    (Big Stack v Medium Stack)

    Aggression, Aggression, Aggression


    Game of Chicken
    Your Bubble Factor is High
    His Bubble High Factor is High
    (Big Stack v Big Stack)

    Keep the pot small or be the first to push all in

    Cash Game
    Your Bubble Factor is Low
    His Bubble Factor is Low
    (Small Stack v Small Stack or Far From Money)

    Play Normal Poker

    Pick Your Spot
    Your Bubble Factor is High
    His Bubble Factor is Low
    (Medium Stack v Big Stack)

    Don’t bluff and play your good cards hard and fast

    What I am advocating is that you are aggressive. At this stage, steal blinds from the medium stacks (not the small, because they will be more aggressive and shove back). You attack medium stacks because they have a higher bubble factor and won't want a fight.

    So all in all, you need to consider their position. A big or medium stack is less likely to be aggressive than a small stack who will shove it all in with anything. But don't be afraid to call these all-ins either.

    Being timid is the wrong strategy. Sometimes this will screw you, you will get busted, but do you want to make the money or win? Be the bully, boss others around.
     
  5. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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    GOOD GOD! What a phenomenal writeup there, bro.

    As odd as it sounds, I seem to play my worst poker when I've got a commanding chip lead. I either clamp up like a virgin's sphincter and end up getting blinded out like the heartless faggot that I am because of my serious phobia against doubling up a shortstack, or I play from all sorts of unfavourable positions and ruinously chase just about anything. I don't have a winner's mentality thus far so I basically do anything just to finish into the money, then, when the pressure has subsided, I play what I believe is to be my best poker....when I've recouped my buyin and made a little extra cheese to go along with it, you know? But up to that point, as I've said before, I play like there's a gun to my head in every rnd. I concede a lot of important hands/pots....almost to the point of blinding myself out in order to money, you know?

    What playing micro stakes real money poker has taught me about my game is that I've got too many leaks to count and that I just simply don't have the bravery, boldness and overall mental fortitude to profitably play higher limit poker consistently, man.....I really need to work on that aspect of my game, man. You know, this contradiction where on the one hand you're supposed to have the memory of an elephant and be flawless with your recall, but on the same hand, you're supposed to instantly let go of a bad beat and erase it from your memory as quickly as possible.....I just don't have that ability, man. I don't care if it's a terrible beat costing me a cent or a dollar, the **** stings and lingers on in my head like a mother****er equally!
     
  6. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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  7. rony31

    rony31 Team Captain

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    Jesus H. Christ, nice work man. most I got up to was around $250... then the ****age started with Jokerstars and I didn't know when to stop :(
     
  8. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

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    Big stack is the most fun to play with. I mean I always try buy position once I am Dealer, Cut Off or Cut Off +1, if the pots are unopened. It is all about shifting gears however, if the table is tight, then you should be loose, stealing, being the bully.

    Also, don't steal blinds unless the small blinds and big blinds are worth 5% of the original stacks everyone started off with. So, you know, 1500 on an average PokerStars SnG. Once the blinds (both small n big), are worth 5% of that, I start stealing. The key to that however is don't steal against small stacks, the best to steal against are medium stacks, they won't shove over the top unless they have AA or KK. A small stack has an enormous range, you don't want that. We steal because it is easy, because we can scoop up unwarranted chips.
     
  9. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

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    Well done Yoss.

    Feel free guys to post hand histories on here when you are in a difficult spot.

    If you are placed in a difficult spot on the turn, play the hand but then post the hand history up to the turn, and ask what others would have done, and give any info you have such as reads or descriptions of players, and we can critique the moves.
     
  10. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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    I've never been more gutted and devastated in my life playing poker than in this situation, man.....my hands are trembling as I type, no joke.....I'm completely tilted on my head and I'm considering blowing my remaining bankroll ($224) at the 1/2 tables


    anyway, here it is....critique it as harshly and thoroughly as you can, folks


    PokerStars Game #15190853927: Tournament #76990984, $11+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (800/1600) - 2008/02/10 - 08:58:53 (ET)
    Table '76990984 20' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: 5=cinco (10632 in chips)
    Seat 2: MagicT (14240 in chips)
    Seat 3: manolo555 (3699 in chips)
    Seat 4: Eisjungfrau (23464 in chips)
    Seat 5: Growler123 (26179 in chips)
    Seat 6: TheRunway (36275 in chips)
    Seat 7: PopeYoss (22411 in chips)
    Seat 8: therescav (24861 in chips)
    Seat 9: Talaly (16906 in chips)
    5=cinco: posts the ante 150
    MagicT: posts the ante 150
    manolo555: posts the ante 150
    Eisjungfrau: posts the ante 150
    Growler123: posts the ante 150
    TheRunway: posts the ante 150
    PopeYoss: posts the ante 150
    therescav: posts the ante 150
    Talaly: posts the ante 150
    TheRunway: posts small blind 800
    PopeYoss: posts big blind 1600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to PopeYoss [As Kd]
    therescav: folds
    Talaly: folds
    5=cinco: folds
    MagicT: folds
    manolo555: folds
    Eisjungfrau: folds
    Growler123: raises 1600 to 3200
    TheRunway: folds
    PopeYoss: calls 1600
    *** FLOP *** [4s 9s Kh]
    PopeYoss: checks
    Growler123: bets 3200
    PopeYoss: raises 15861 to 19061 and is all-in
    Growler123: calls 15861
    *** TURN *** [4s 9s Kh] [Jh]
    *** RIVER *** [4s 9s Kh Jh] [Th]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    PopeYoss: shows [As Kd] (a pair of Kings)
    Growler123: shows [Qc Ks] (a straight, Nine to King)
    Growler123 collected 46672 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 46672 | Rake 0
    Board [4s 9s Kh Jh Th]
    Seat 1: 5=cinco folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: MagicT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: manolo555 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: Eisjungfrau folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Growler123 (button) showed [Qc Ks] and won (46672) with a straight, Nine to King
    Seat 6: TheRunway (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 7: PopeYoss (big blind) showed [As Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
    Seat 8: therescav folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Talaly folded before Flop (didn't bet)




    the scenario........$12/180 man turbo SnG.....final two tables....I'm in 4th with like 22k in chips? And with the way I'm playing, I'm guaranteed no less than 4th($158) and maybe even first ($594)



    either I'm too ******* stupid for getting too cute and tricky with a hand like that in that haphazard situation, or these mother******* retards who greatly overvalue K/Q need to be strung up from the highest point in their respective region)

    I've never been runner, runner straighted before, runner, runner flushed lots of times, but this is a kick in the nuts and teeth simultaneously, man....I honestly can't even see straight right now because I'm seething with such murderous rage......I'll never come that close to getting the $$594 price in that tournament.....it's disgustingly hard just to recoup your dough, forget about top-fiving or whatever
     
  11. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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    yeah, I know whatchu mean, bro. I was just on a good heater, I suppose? Variance, as the pokerheads like to describe it as? Anyway, I've cooled off considerably since making that last post. Infact, I made a precipitous nosedive almost all the way down tp the bottom (from $490-$24) in a matter of a day and a half....no joke! I'd say that 95% of that monstrous dropoff was due to abysmal playing and the other 5% just horrendous beats that were extremely costly since I was playing way above my bankroll at that time in the .50/1 cash tables.


    anyway.....here's where I stand as of this moment....I'm on the most potent tilt of my life, fully committed to pissing away every last dollar in this acct.


    http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/43907/2000774762051248321_rs.jpg
     
  12. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

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    The raise by him is fine, he is on the button. Normally at this stage of the tournament, I am thinking that is a blind steal. I think this because of his position, the pot is unopened, and the blinds are two medium stacks, prime suspects to steal.

    With AK, I am re-raising or pushing every time. Against 2 hands I am ****ed, KK or AA, everything else it is a coin flip. He isn't calling me with anything other than JJ+ which means I am good unless KK or AA, and if he is calling with AQ, KQ, I am happy and he is dominated.

    So that is the one thing I'd suggest, try and pick blind steals and re-raise, the good thing here, you have a premium hand, you can really set your image on the table and you get a lot of free hands later on, he won't try that again. That is what I would have done with AK.

    As for the play? Well, I would have led out and bet, betting is information, you are making that all in play in the dark, he could have a two pair or a set, and you have no information to narrow down his potential raise. However, in this circumstance he has called your all in raise, and is dominated.

    Ultimately, you've achieved all you can here, all his chips are now liable, and you have him dominated. At this stage, he has 4 outs. 18% chance of hitting and his tournament life is effectively at stake. I am taking those odds every time Yoss.

    Ultimately though, the play is fine, you got him all in, he hit two runners to suck out, and he lives another day. That is poker.

    In summary:

    - Try pick off potential blind steals, that is what I am thinking pre-flop. Re-raise.
    - Perhaps lead out in the future, the way you played this hand is dangerous. I hate playing in the dark.
    - But this is a ok to mix up your style, don't want to be predictable.
    - You did nothing wrong, you got in when you had the best hand by a mile, and he hit two runners.
    - Thats poker.
     
  13. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

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    Really does depend.

    The hand you posted is tricky.

    If you decide to play, you either want to win this hand now, or force it heads up. Your only option is to shove. They are the most likely way to achieve these two objectives, and you don't have enough chips otherwise to play effective post flop poker. You are also out of position. Going all in negates this.

    The initial raiser really should be shoving with the size of his stack, he cannot play any post-flop poker, he is shoving or folding after the flop. Look, that raise, I would still shove all in if no one else has acted after.

    The other guys call is really the tricky party. You need to ask yourself will you get him out of the hand. Large stack, button, I think he is calling for value to just see a flop. If he has AA or KK, he should be re-raising to isolate anyone else, he wants to play his premium pockets heads up, so I am not putting him on that, but there is a risk he has it, but it is a small risk, and I do like to gamble, this is tournament poker, we need to take risks. AK, AQ is the kind of range or medium pocket pairs that I think he has. I like my TT here.

    On this process, I think you should shove in this hand. Because the hand plays better heads up, and you are favourite heads up to two overcards, and a massive favourite against medium pairs. These are the hand ranges I am putting others on.

    But I am also considering tournament position. I don't play to make the money, I play to win.

    You can afford 10 rounds. Another 5 rounds of chips is in there already. A shove and you can win it without a show down and move to 4500, or double or triple up. Win this hand, you can start throwing some wait and accumulating chips.

    Shove it.

    You could also call it, and see the flop and shove if their are no over cards or you hit. I would do this if I am the last to act. I don't want BB calling me all in, because then there is no way I can call a raise, call, re-raise with TT+, and 1/6 of my stack is in there. But this is my least preferred option. It's passive poker.

    Aggressive poker wins.
     
  14. Lean

    Lean Fan Favourite

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    Either you push it or you fold. Considering he raised 3BB's i would put both of them (the raiser and the caller) on high cards, like A-K to A-J, which are pretty marginal hands imho, if you hit them great, if you dont you have Ace high which doesnt beat pretty much nothing other than a bluff. I agree with Rob. I would move all in and try to get heads up with one of them.

    Pair of 10's with only 2 guys on the pot looks good enough, and moving all-in is likely to make one of them fold (or both!), yes, there's a 30% chance that an overcard will hit the table, but what about the other 70% you've got? Anyway, im no big fan of A-K because it gives you false illusion you've got a monster when in the matter of fact you have nothing unless one of them hits. And still, top pair/top-kicker is a pretty vulnerable hand and most of the time you'll find yourself raising lots just to protect your hand on the flop against draws, so you'll end up winning a smaller pot if no donkey calls you.
     
  15. Nimreitz

    Nimreitz Make America Great Again

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    That's a very knowledgeable and fancy way to say that the guy is a foggat asshole who doesn't deserve to live. I would murder if that happened to me, but luckily I don't gamble online anymore because I tend to lose all my money at the sportsbook.
     
  16. Rob

    Rob Mourinho’s Assistant

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    Gamble on Tennis. That is where it is at.
     
  17. Tajike

    Tajike SG's Fluffiest

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  18. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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    hurhurhur-----yeah, man. Rob is pretty damn knowledgeable about the game. The dude can pokerspeak with the best of 'em.






    excellent analysis and observations, bro.

    -I hardly, if ever, steal blinds-----even when I'm sitting pretty at the top with a commanding chip lead....I'm just too much of a pussy, bro. There's a few things I despise more in playing poker than being reraised when I've got rags-----getting reraised infuriates me and puts me on a serious tilt. I'd rather give up a couple of blinds than lose a whole bunch of chips tryin' to steal someone else's blinds. I'll definitely take yer advice into consideration and start bagging some blinds when the opportunity is appropriate.....hurhur

    -yeah, I'll definitely be more protective of my big hands in the future. See, that Cocksucker and I had history and had been going at it the entire tournament. He pegged me for a passive pussy who doesnt protect his blinds early on and had been reraising me frequently and I'd in turn slowrolled em with a 2-6 straight flush against his set in the middle part of the tournament which really set 'em off, so when this specific situation arose, I was really confident that I had the better preflop hand and I wanted to end this feud once and for all by setting a trap for 'em.


    Anyway, I'm still fuming over that hand, man. He put me on an even bigger tilt by typing "lol" and "Ship it, bitch" after he'd won the hand----God that pisses me off when people utter "Ship it" after beating me. I hear that people do this in real life aswell? Boy would I get homicidal if some ****er ever said that to my face, man.











    great posts there, bros. I think that you both make excellent and agreeing points here, but I'm not sure if I've got the balls and courage to push it all in with pocket 10s. Playing these hands has scarred me one too many times. It's just impossible for me to call or allin in this situation with a maniac who's pretty much committed to the hand postflop and a ticking time bomb of a chip leader who hasn't been laying down too many hands all game long. I had a comfortable chip count and didn't want to be compromised by what I consider to be relatively weak pockets when the final table was nearing. I realize that playing panic-stricken, pussified poker isn't gonna lead you anywhere in the long haul, but at the time, I was just playing to place----which I did in that tournament if I'm not mistaken.
     
  19. Nimreitz

    Nimreitz Make America Great Again

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    8 man parlays in the early rounds of Tournaments are indeed fun. Safin used to be the bane of my existence; that man loses in the first round more than any good player I've ever seen.
     
  20. Yossarian

    Yossarian Fan Favourite

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    you ain't a degenerate until your affliction has forced you to lay bets on the MHL (Mexican Hockey League) or the SAHA (South African Hockey Association) because they're the only action available



    *proceeds to disappear to the alley-ways of the internet....trying to avoid accusatory and judgmental cyber gazes*


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
      

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