Screw Konami

[john2gr]

If konami read some comments on this forum "example pes5 cheating bastards" you could imagine them to be a little upset. And who knows maybe stop developing certain games for certain formats.(konami make many different games for different formats,losing one may not be such a big deal). One last thought! how long before people get that upset with how pro evolution plays that there is talk about gameplay patches ? . You know the ones that are allways applied to the fifa games.

Keep in mind that Konami is developing the PES for the PS2 and they simply PORT it to the other consoles and to the PC,they aren't developing different versions.To be frankly i wouldn't care if PES5 wasn't ported to PC as i uninstalled it some days-weeks ago,much like i did with PES4.Still my favourite is PES3.Also if someone could make the goalkeepers better then i'd be a lot happier.It seems that PES should stay an exclusive game to PS2 as right now there isn't any evolution at all.Well there is this evolution of appearing in every new console,much like Fifa but whatever :P

 

[MightyTic]

I agree with all most all of what you the wolf and other have said, but

"strongly suspect the experience of the cpu cheating to be a mere psychological effect rather than the result of secret program routines that were implemented to make the game more challenging."


strongly suspect the experience of the cpu cheating to be a mere psychological effect rather than the result of secret program

I don't know about secert programming , it there in the open!

I had one examle last night playing a game which I was winning 1-0 close to the end of the game. The cpu team gets a corner, my CH is standing right in the middle of the 6yrd box about 3yrds off the goal. He is in the open there is a cpu player about a yard or so behind him, as the ball come in (direct flight to my CH) just at the last moment as Im about to press a button to head the ball away, the control icon jumps off him to one of my defenders standing round about the penalty spot! I never touched the L1 button, the ball was over my now cpu controlled CH's head (never jumped) and right onto the cpu players head standing about a yard or so behind him.. bang header into the back of the net 1-1 ..

That was not my imagination, that was the cpu changing the player I controlled to one much further away from the ball so the cpu player standing behind my CH could get a free header on goal and score ..

Another, ML final game of the season , I am leading by 2 points. In this final game its 1st v 2nd, dying minutes its 1-1. Ball falls to one of my defenders in the box I press to boot it up the park but all of a sudden this player can only boot the ball straight to a cpu player about 25yrds from goal, he moves out wide and when level with the 18yrd box sends in a across to the back post. The cpu CF is standing near the back of the 6yrd box about 2 to 3yrds from the byline and I can see with the flight off the ball that the ball is going over his head and will go out for a goalkick to me! Cpu to the rescue , one of my defenders (not controlled by me no icon above his head) controlled by the cpu as the ball comes over the cpus CF this cpu controlled defender of mine, moves round behind the CF and jumps up over the CF back and twists his head to bullet the ball into the top corner just under the junction of post and bar, this was from near on the byline. I would have thought that it would have been some goal to get by the cpu CF, but even more unlikey from a player behind him, but nothing is impossible for the cpu ...

That cpu og by my cpu controlled defender cost me the championship , and nearly cost me a logitech wingman pad ... but i got over it ..

Now I still like this game very much, and I know it was programmed for the ps2 and AI and other things required to make this a even better game can not be done on a PS2..

I can only hope that with the 360 and PS3 that we get top AI for both teams, with 3 cores with 2 threads on each this will be more than possible.. Free 360 passing and a lot more,there should be no need for the SC buttons, i am looking forward to what Konami do with PES with all that power...

but yes pes is a flawed game , but its still the best football game out there, I have FIFA06 and its a pile of $(%£ ..

 

[pere]

The controller icon jumped without pressing L1 and without "manual" setting and without a player of yours gaining ball possession ? wow, i never saw that before.

In general I've experienced the game to be a little buggy in close situations in the box though, for example i was playing a ml cup match 2 days ago, last 10mins, desperately in need for an away goal. my volley shot from just outside the box was parried by the keeper and rose high in the air then came down about 1 foot away from the goal. Usually in this situation the opposite keeper just jumps upwards to collect the ball but this time he attempted a ridiculously looking diving safe against my forward which could head the ball in easily, as the oppositing defenders didn't bother to go for the ball (5Stars).
And on the same day in a regular season match i played a volley pass to into the left side of the box, an when my winger headed it back into the middle, the opposite keeper ran into the left post and then got caught in the net of the goal, leaving my rushing forward with an easy header into the empty goal. Ah well, not completely empty, the keeper was also in there hanging in the side of the net. This was some bug for sure, but it was totally ridiculous and looked almost real, good entertainment. If my keeper and defenders would have done those things in an important situation though I'd have bitten into my controler for sure.. ( this already happened )

BTW I agree with cpu-controlled players not reacting as you would expect them to, especially if they were human controlled just a split second ago. They seem to be "confused" for a short amount of time after you switch to another player, i.e. they don't go for headers, or don't go to catch a free ball and rather leave it to the opposition. This happens all the time if you switch in the wrong moment, making it an important decision when to switch and when not. I guess this is implemented on purpose to prevent people from letting the AI play for them by switching around really fast.

 

[Maichal1616]

I hear all this crap about "no game is unsrcipted" and blah blah blah, but I would like to point out that PES 4 had none of this.

I remember smashing my keyboard (which I broke, eventually) in PES 3, because the switching method just plain sucked and I kept on conceding on the stupidest of plays. In PES 4, I never EVER (yes, not once in the entire year) yelled at the game. My defenders were not stupid and any goal conceded was my fault, or the low skill level of my defenders. True, PES 4 was not the most realistic of games (I learned how to dribble past 6 defenders in a row on 6*), but it was not crappy at least. It did not have numerous frustrating features.

Each of game of PES 5, no matter what the outcome is (I actually won my last game - for once) manages to piss me off. Be it a stupid move on my defender's part or a retarded uncontrolled trap, it makes me yell at the screen. That should not be happening. Yeling at oneself is ok, because when I make a mistake, I deserve it. But yelling at the comp because it once again screwed me over is a sign that the game wasn't "proofread" as well.

Also it is true that when you play the CPU (not another player), there is very little difference between Chelsea and, say, Lokomotiv Moscow. The only difference is that Chelsea players run faster and the keeper blocks more shots. Otherwise, I get as many plays on them as I do on any other team and I have as many scoring chances. The fact they are fast screws over my Stein-Jaric-Libermann defense, but otherwise, I see no difference.

In PES 4, you could erase all the kits and logos and be able to tell what team you were playing by its style of play. I remember playing as Lokomotiv and realising that the most effective way for me to build up my attacks was the actual way they did it in real life. In PES 5, it has become generic.

I am not saying that PES 5 is an utterly horrendous game. In fact, the realism of the game in general (bugs excluded), is much better in this version. But if PES 4 totally convinced me to stop buying FIFA every year, PES 5 made me do it again.

I must agree with most of this post really. It actually seems the AI in PES 5 is way dumber than it was in PES 4 and the only way to compensate this is to cheat itself to glory.

I remember playing PES 4 as Man Utd against Arsenal, which was one of the toughest and most attacking sides of the game. I remember working my ass off to try to defend their attacking plays which were often really creative and kept me under pressure for most of the game. And all that even on 3 or 4 star level.

In PES 5 when I play against Arsenal I get 65% of possession and I don't even have to defend anything. But in case it's a cup final they'll probably score a fluke or two to win it in the last seconds.

The dumbest thing is, even if the opposition gets 5 or more great chances, 2-on-1's, 1-on-1's, open chances, they'll probably screw all of them up. And then score from a stupid deflection from your defender.

 

[Swanseajack]

LOL just thought I would give 5* a try, one win and was 1-0 up last min in 2nd game when 3 of my defenders, yup thats right THREE defenders decide now would be a good time to run into each other, blocking each other off from reaching the lone cpu striker.

You can guess what happend next, you couldnt write this stuff if you tried. pure comedy lol

 

[DryHeat]

PES vs Real Life

PES vs Real Life

Ball physics.
Pes:
If you aim for the posts the ball will most likely 90% of the time go past the post.

Real Life:
The ball wiould go past the post, hit the post or inside the post.



Shooting
Pes:
CPU often decides ball power, even if you just tap it, the power bar would charge to its maximum.

Real Life:
I control the ball power, the ball would either go at the power i kick it or less, not more unless Konami have discovered some new physics.



Heading:
Pes
No control on when you jump, power of header or even direction. Is is almost impossible to defend a diving header as you yourself have no control on doing a diving header to defend against it.

Real Life:
I control when i jump and how hard i move my head towards the ball. The direction is determined by when i hit the ball, the angle my head is to the ball, and how hard i moved my head towards the ball example kick off, sensible soccer.



Penalties.
Pes:
No control on power, can only select from 6 directions. No control on goalie , can only dive.

Real Life:
I control power, angle and curl like sensible soccer. Goalie can move anyhwere they want ,it is up to the ref to decide if the goalie should go back.


Rebounds:
Pes:
Players especially CPU players have magnets in there shoes as the ball will 90% of the time go directly to there feet, not there head, or knee but just there feet without the cpu player even moving. 8Most of the goals the cpu scores against me are because of rebounds.

Real Life:
The ball will go anywhere, it is determined by angle, power, height and spin.



A.I
Pes:
Players will run away from the ball or just stand there , even if the ball is 1 yard away.

Real Life:
Players will run towards the ball if it is very close or wait to see if another team mate who is closer gets the ball sensible soccer, kick off.



Movemnt:
PES:
180 degrees on freekicks,corners, throwins and 9 directions on shooting, heading, through balls on stick

Real Life
360 degrees on everything



It seems that Konami has copied fifa, they have concentrated on graphics rather than A.I. Any A.I improvememts have been on the CPU players A.I rather than yours. There seems to be zero delay in the cpu response to things on the pitch, where your players sometimes don't even respond.

When PES comes out on XBOX 360, PS3, PC they should not have any excuses on using small Master Leagues, graphics or even A.I. Unfortunately for PES5 it has been programmed for the PS2 and was never going to be that different to PES4, even though they could have added extras to the PC version such as longer replays, bigger masterleague, more free slots etc.

 

[MightyTic]

sorry to burst your bubble but my setting is ALWAYS MANUAL ! is was on manual setting when this happened....

Just like when I have a midfielder on the ball an facing out to a winger I want to pass to (manual settings) I hit pass and one of my forwards in the box highlights and my player on the ball turns and hits the ball in the forwards direction...

the icon jumping from my CH at the corner to another one of my defenders happened even though my icon control was set to MANUAL !

 

[n_t_a_l_e_x]

I like pes5 much more than arcadish pes4 with ping-pong passes and incredible dribbling. Pes5 looks like real football with mistakes, frustrations and unhappy (по русски – не фар&#1090.
There is only one big negative moment – no IP to IP connection

 

[ugluk]

LOL just thought I would give 5* a try, one win and was 1-0 up last min in 2nd game when 3 of my defenders, yup thats right THREE defenders decide now would be a good time to run into each other, blocking each other off from reaching the lone cpu striker.

You can guess what happend next, you couldnt write this stuff if you tried. pure comedy lol

ohhh yea that pisses me off too. i conceded a goal once, because two of my defenders kept pushing each other in opposite directions and did not mark either the wing OR the forward. cross-header-goal.

good times.

 

[Gnidrologist]

The controller icon jumped without pressing L1 and without "manual" setting and without a player of yours gaining ball possession ? wow, i never saw that before.

I believe Mighty Tic on that. Either you're full of crap or you just haven't played the game even for a week.
I haven't had an experience that vicious as MT described but every match there are about 5-10 times when cpu changes my player cursor even though I play on ''complete manual'' mode.

 

[Maichal1616]

The shooting system in PES 5 is a big joke as well. It's almost impossible not to put the ball over the crossbar even when you barely touch the shoot button. Players like van Nistelrooy can't put the ball into the net from 5 yards, even when they've finished the 3 seconds long stumbling needed to get the slowest pass under control.

 

[ugluk]

I am so f*cking tired of having 20 goddamn shots on goal and losing the game. This is pissing me off.

Pro players DO NOT shoot AT THE GOALIE when 1 yard away from the ball and the goalie is NOT in front of them. I am seriously at a loss for words. Or a corner where my guy heads it, the keeper saves it and as it goes out, their def slides in, kicks the ball against my forward, and gets a goal kick. THIS JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

[The_Knight]

the control icon jumps off him to one of my defenders standing round about the penalty spot! I never touched the L1 button,

......That was not my imagination, that was the cpu changing the player I controlled to one much further away from the ball so the cpu player standing behind my CH could get a free header on goal and score ..

It's called auto player swtiching. You can set it ON/OFF with about 10 levels in between. Use L1/R1 at the player side choosing to set it to OFF, if u want to switch players ONLY by pressing the L1 button.

 

[Zakov]

what about the crappy refereeing???

i don't think KONAMI did a lot of work with this game...
all they did was give the CPU steroids and make the refereeing much more horrible(plus crappy & unresponsive controls)...... They only thing that i liked was the shooting animations....
But I simply hate the refereeing that is constantly home and away biased..
it simply spoils the game no matter what referee you are using!!
Each time i run into a cpu player in a penalty box the referee CONSISTENTLY gives away penalties!!! In the premiership the referee only gives a penalty for the following reasons....
Sliding tackles and Obstruction( mayb spelled wrong tho)-also rarely given btw
very rarely given away penalties for shoulder2shoulder jostling....
KONAMI has to watch matches and consider the possibilites b4 implementing any sort of A.I or whatever in the game!

Oh yeah, i'm just laying out the facts so that KONAMI can improve the game not because i hate it or simply want to piss off the fanboys

 

[deluxxe]

It's called auto player swtiching. You can set it ON/OFF with about 10 levels in between. Use L1/R1 at the player side choosing to set it to OFF, if u want to switch players ONLY by pressing the L1 button.

i suggest reading the entire thread before chiming in. I'm sure you meant well, but it has been explained multiple times in this thread that this problem happens even when you select manual switching.

 

[The_Knight]

my bad... sorry.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Does anyone have a brain here?
I can tell you why Konami made the CPU cheat. Because of people like you Wolf. Maybe if you people didnt run around and talk about how easy PES4 was on six stars, Konami wouldnt have done this. You only have yourselves to blame.

Some of you really don't understand what it takes to have great AI, programing wise and hardware wise. The PS2 sucks in both departments and is the system this game is made for. Everything else is nothing more than a port.

I can't think of any game (in any genre) that has "proper" AI.........................nope still can't think of one.

Honestly Wolf, your opinion holds about as much water as a hole filled glass. Every few weeks your stance changes. You contradict your last stance every time you have a new one. Its getting very old, play either FIFA or PES and quit whining like a little girl.

Every video game has problems and dwelling on them is nonsense that will get you nowhere.

 

[kschoice]

Every video game has problems and dwelling on them is nonsense that will get you nowhere.

I have problems combining this statement and your signature.

 

[Golden Boy]

It's a good game. A damn good game. It has almost everything you'd want in a soccer simulation, but there are a few things that prevent it from being ideal:

1) The CPU seems way too good at spotting through ball passing options. It has the uncanny ability to be able, time after time, to insert a player into a danger zone, even if the passing player has no way of seing that opening.

And it doesn't matter who's the passer. It could be Del Piero or, just as easily, be some second division reserve.

What's the deal with that?

2) Too many fouls are being given. The game struggles to remain fluent for more than a few seconds without somebody pushing somebody, and the referee seems way too whistle happy.

You sometimes also see a striker chasing my defender all the way to midcourt just to foul him, something that simply doesn't happen in real life.

On the other hand, you sometimes have fould that must be awarded, and the ref seems to ignore them, leaving you frustrated after building a promising move, or trying to run to a fastbreak.

3) On the PC, the buttons react a bit too slow. I often find my self angry about attempting a 1-2, but the CPU takes more than half a second to realize that's what I want, and in that time, the opposition takes the ball. I wish button response time would be faster.

These are pretty much the main bugs. Other than that, excluding a few minor things, the game seems to be the best Konami have developed so far.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I have problems combining this statement and your signature.

Some companies games have more problems throughout their entire catalog than others.

I also have a problem with companies that buy exclusive rights to sports organizations so they can always be on top and we as gamers have no other options. Or companies that are starting to buy the entire video game market, leaving us gamers with no choice but to buy their product. Here is what I am talking about. Say you don't like PES, well you have another choice, play FIFA. Say you don't like NBA Live 06, well you have another choice, you can play NBA 2K6. Now say you don't like Madden 06, well your F**ked because there is no other choice...............the same goes with $ony and their exclusive Formula One rights.