Iraq Occupation

[JTNY]

The Iraq occupation has continued with blood spilt on all sides. Today there has been news released of another decapitation video killing of an American.

If you want to see it, go here (Link Removed - Mod)

You need a strong stomach, this one was way worse than the video of the Nick Berg one.

This is the problem with foreign incursion and armed takeover - violence. These are not the actions of stable, predictable groups but these are far too common to be pushed aside as a select few insane religious/extremist/murderous/ideological people. This ismore a reflection of a large amount of opposition to the foreign efforts in the country (no matter what the ulterior motives of the US were, they're there now and the restoration of Iraq is now the issue). Although it is doubtful in a significant of the opposition are prepared to go these lengths to oust the foreigners it is an issue. It can not be put down to crazed religious terrorism as it has only sprouted recently on this level in Iraq.

Throughout colonial rule in Iraq control was never universal. Now we see the different tribal/war lord/cleric claims to separate areas of the country, much like Afghanistan. Problem here is Iraq is crucial for the global economy and this anarchic tirade is not to good for business, apart from the human casualties - including the deaths of Iraqis from Coalition hands.

Whether going in was correct or not (not in my opinion, as expressed 999999 times) this is a problem. I question the resolve of the coalition leaders the United States as the real motives in Iraq had nothing to do with Iraqi freedom, and the effort to lead the humanitarian and "democratic" crusade in Iraq may not exist in say, five years time.

My prediction is, the foreign powers will leave within a few years, perhaps there will be less violence, perhaps a tyrant has been removed - as they will claim, but the people will not be better off, and would not be progressing to betterment of their conditions.

Unless of course they put in place another tyrant.

EDIT BY LEUNGTL: I don't think it's appropiate to post the link to this video here in SG. However, if you really do want the video, PM JTNY.

RESPONSE JTNY: Cool.

 

[Pontiakos]

Well said.

 

[::shinji::]

yeah I think things are going to get a lot worse still before they get better...and another beheading isn't a big shock. In fact, there have been a lot more of these than I think a lot of people realize, it's just that CNN has stopped bringing them to the public's attention, or just do when it's an American.. The truth is there have been probably over 12 of these abduction/beheading videos made. I can give you a link that has several of these disgusting videos with hostages being killed, everything from innocent Turks to Nepalese.. I even read a story where two female Italian aid workers were being held and threatened with "slaughter"..

I think it's mostly foreign mujahadeen that are guilty here, these abductions of innocent workers have even been condemmed by actual Iraqi resistance fighters..

 

[AberdeenFC]

man this is so horrible

i for one certainly dont want to see the video, why would anyone?

 

[Shindig]

Simply put, the International Community has to unite to prevent incidents like this. It's a big mess and it needs a big effort to clean it up.

Regardless of the Bush Administrations' motives and regardless of whether this was a legal conflict or not, the fall-out must be managed by the whole of the world. We need unity to overcome conflict, like.

 

[Will]

Out there there is a different culture and a different way of living. People are generally a lot more emotional and extreme. They aren't used to the way of life that we are trying to force them into and really, it doesn't fit with their personality as a nation.
Even though there may be people out there who are willing and capable to live in the way we want them to, there are enough to stir up trouble and keep peace from being achieved.
The sad fact is that they need a harsh dictator to control them. The kind of rule that we are trying to impose on them just won't work, it's not strict enough.

 

[kickin_kyle]

some people in this world are really f.cuked up

 

[Gerrard 17]

Re-post the link, just put up a big warning in red or something so that people are sure what they're clicking on before they do.

 

[Dream Team]

I don't recommend to see it.

I won't see it.

I don't think this is the correct site to distribute that kind of things. That's not a film that you'll forget the next week. It's not pleasant or something that we need to see.

 

[scottish_carson]

Its not some horror film where it's make up we see on the floor, its not actors, its not scripted - it a real person dying. It aint clean and quick. The hostages die in agony.

 

[Virgo]

it's just probably the most terrifying thing I ever seen, I just saw it and I wish I didn't.

George Bush and Dick Cheney should be forced to see this over and over again for one whole day and hear the guy's agony in dolby surround.

 

[Dave]

attack Uzbekistan

 

[Elder]

It can be put down as religious terrorism. Of course it's more complex than that in some cases, but look no further than the instigator of most of the violence, al Sadr. He's a religious fruit cake who murdered other religious clerics for control of Najaf.

I think the problem with the violence is that the US is hitting back strong enough in an effort to seem humanitarian... This is a war, you smash your enemies into dust, and then do the humanitarian thing.


I do think Iraq will be a stable country within the near future. Being 2-3 years or less...

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by Virgo
it's just probably the most terrifying thing I ever seen, I just saw it and I wish I didn't.

George Bush and Dick Cheney should be forced to see this over and over again for one whole day and hear the guy's agony in dolby surround.

I say we track down the families of those who did this and show it to them over and over again... then find the people who did and chop of their heads right in front of them on national TV.


There is always a tendency to blame everyone other than the perpetrators of the violence...

 

[Virgo]

that's the whole problem isn't it? You have absolutely no clue how to catch them.

Am I blaming anyone directly? I said that bcs Bush should acknowledge the direct and indirect consequences of his actions and he just doesn't.

While he was making a cute speech in the UN an innocent american was having his head chopped off with a freakin stilletto.

 

[AhmedK]

of course, Elber and Chanpdave have the answer to stopping this kind of thing, kill more people. You guys don't understand, Iraqis, Islamic leaders, even Osama bin Laden can condemn these acts as much as they want, after all, what human being would not? but as long as the us forces keep pounding civilians Iraqis are just going to keep on condemning and then turning there heads. Did you know that just a few days ago US forces killed more than 25 civilians(confirmed by the us) while blowing up a damaged Hummer, why? Because it had guns they didnt want to fall into enemy hands. Its the same thing here in the us as it is in Iraq, someone gets beheaded, thats too bad, lets get back to work, out country is more important than these infidels. Dozens of civilians killed, thats too bad, lets get back too work, our country is more important than those terrorists, they were just wearing masks to make themselves look like children is all.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by AhmedK
of course, Elber and Chanpdave have the answer to stopping this kind of thing, kill more people. You guys don't understand, Iraqis, Islamic leaders, even Osama bin Laden can condemn these acts as much as they want, after all, what human being would not? but as long as the us forces keep pounding civilians Iraqis are just going to keep on condemning and then turning there heads. Did you know that just a few days ago US forces killed more than 25 civilians(confirmed by the us) while blowing up a damaged Hummer, why? Because it had guns they didnt want to fall into enemy hands. Its the same thing here in the us as it is in Iraq, someone gets beheaded, thats too bad, lets get back to work, out country is more important than these infidels. Dozens of civilians killed, thats too bad, lets get back too work, our country is more important than those terrorists, they were just wearing masks to make themselves look like children is all.

an eye for an eye, the world will go blind

 

[JTNY]

Originally posted by Elder
It can be put down as religious terrorism. Of course it's more complex than that in some cases, but look no further than the instigator of most of the violence, al Sadr. He's a religious fruit cake who murdered other religious clerics for control of Najaf.

I think the problem with the violence is that the US is hitting back strong enough in an effort to seem humanitarian... This is a war, you smash your enemies into dust, and then do the humanitarian thing.


I do think Iraq will be a stable country within the near future. Being 2-3 years or less...

That's the thing, some experts reckon al Sadr is using this as an excuse to become powerful, he is exploiting weaknesses in the local Iraqis - religious superstition, the evils of foreign imperialism and whatnot to rally support.

2-3 years stability? How stable is stable? Unification, or harmony? I think not, to many claims on land and loyalties to different people. The government will probably have authority but no power and those cleric dudes power but no authority, and once the foreigners leave eventually the warlord/cleric dudes will assume power. Just looking at how these things have gone in history.

 

[JTNY]

To clarify, this is the link of Eugene Armstrong's beheading, not one clean swipe but about 45 seconds of.... followed by
Seriously, most gruesome thing I've ever seen.


!!!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!!!

Shocking material, not for the faint hearted, trust me. Click the link at your own responsibility.


LINK TO SCARY FOOTAGE


As requested huge warning: This is a bad one

Re-post the link, just put up a big warning in red or something so that people are sure what they're clicking on before they do.

Click on it at your own peril.

 

[Vagegast]

This is not Al-Sadr, but Al-Zarqawi. Hey Elder, check this out. NBC News; March 2nd, 2004.

With Tuesday’s attacks, Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant with ties to al-Qaida, is now blamed for more than 700 terrorist killings in Iraq.

But NBC News has learned that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger.

In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide.

The Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was debated to death in the National Security Council.

‘People were more obsessed with developing the coalition to overthrow Saddam than to execute the president’s policy of pre-emption against terrorists.’

— Roger Cressey
Terrorism expert: “Here we had targets, we had opportunities, we had a country willing to support casualties, or risk casualties after 9/11 and we still didn’t do it,” said Michael O’Hanlon, military analyst with the Brookings Institution.

Four months later, intelligence showed Zarqawi was planning to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe.

The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the administration had set its course for war with Iraq.

“People were more obsessed with developing the coalition to overthrow Saddam than to execute the president’s policy of preemption against terrorists,” according to terrorism expert and former National Security Council member Roger Cressey.

In January 2003, the threat turned real. Police in London arrested six terror suspects and discovered a ricin lab connected to the camp in Iraq.

The Pentagon drew up still another attack plan, and for the third time, the National Security Council killed it.

Military officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi’s operation was airtight, but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam.

The United States did attack the camp at Kirma at the beginning of the war, but it was too late — Zarqawi and many of his followers were gone. “Here’s a case where they waited, they waited too long and now we’re suffering as a result inside Iraq,” Cressey added.

And despite the Bush administration’s tough talk about hitting the terrorists before they strike, Zarqawi’s killing streak continues today.

Would've those people be beheaded if Zarqawi was killed/hurt?