napolistill#1 said:
So much of these threads turn into a flame-war that it is difficult to have an actual disussion about these games. After playing FIFA for 11 years (since the Sega Genesis in '94) and being a huge Winning Eleven fan/convert for the last 3 years, I will now state the main gameplay reasons why I think FIFA falls short (I listed these in another thread the other day, but that thread just vanished, huh). Keep in mind that these are all factual statments about FIFA, and not just my opinion. They do not include anything about licenses, graphics and presentation. We all know that EA owns Konami in the license and commentary dep't and the graphics are all incredibly based on persoanl tastes that it's not worth arguing. So here goes:
1) You can not assign marking duties to individual players
2) You can not customize formations
3) You can not assign individual attack/defense levels to players
4) You can not implement zones of play strategies to individual players
5) There is off-the-ball run, but other teanmmates do not cover for the open space
6) There are sweet spots on the field where goals are 99% guaranteed to score (on any level of play, with any team, vs any opponent)
7) Long range shots are unrealistically powerful and accurate skewing the gameply to shot-heavy
8) CPU defenses never push upfield and play off-side trap
9) CPU does not change strategieas and tactics to reflect game situation
10) CPU defenses sit back and wait for you to cross invisible "line-in-the-grass" before they press you
11) There is no on-the-fly option to attack to the left, center, right or opposite side
12) There is no on-the-fly option to increase/decrease the attack/defense level of your team
13) You can not do a short corner kick
14) You can not lay off a free kick to a teammate
15) Your midfield players do not support the attckers - you send one of them on an "of-the-ball" run, but not generally as part of a defined team strategy/gameplan
There are others, but they start to get nitpicky. These are not a wishlist for future FIFA releases either. This list is a pretty deep indictment of EA for their soccer title and being able to call it a "realisitc" soccer sim (especially the stratgey/tactical elements which are a centerpiece of modern soccer).
All of these items are not gameplay issues with WE/PES and are all addressed by Konami. Now I will say that Konami is far from perfect. But at a gameplay level, they have either included or attempted to include almost every item that a true soccer fanatic (like myself) would want to see in a soccer sim.
I hope that this thread can become an interesting discussion on the gameplay merits of the two titles. I have read so many times how these titles "compliment" each other. I just don't see it. So please, all FIFA fans, let me know in what gameplay areas PES/WE falls short and FIFA doesn't.
This is a pretty decent and partly fair thread tbh... But theres always going to be 1-2 exagerated comments, as expected from a PES fan.
So heres my thoughts to these statements.. (1-15)
1) Fair enough point about the marking, but i wouldn,t really say that it,s needed that much in Fifa, due to the way in which the game plays.
Keeping in mind that by holding the player run button (L1), you can call in 2 other players to assist defenders & hold up play, while still being able to control a 3rd seperate player. Also by holding (L2) your existing players will run back to support Defence.
But i will also say that, More player freedom & improved auto switching would be an advantage, too.
Also let,s be honest and say that man-man marking is becoming a thing of the past in the real game, and only mainly used in set-piece situations.
2) I agree with you on this ... It would be good to get the customise formation feature Back in Fifa.
3) I don,t feel that individual player commands are needed in Fifa, because you,re not relying on the AI movement as much as in PES, but the movement & space that you create, yourself. (ie. triggered player runs)
4) Hmmm, Yes & No to this one .... Yes to the point that you can assign a player to play a little deeper or push up more with attack.
But to be fair, you can get around this by the type of formation that you choose.
ie. 4-4-2 where your 2 Forwards could either play more side by side or 1 slightly behind the other.
Same with Midfield, you could play a flat 4, or a dimond formation, obviously giving you the option of having an CAM & CDM (Attacking & Defensive Midfielders)
Believe me, the CAM does push up field to assist your Forwards, while the CDM will hold his posistion and cover, unless triggered to push up.
But i,ll admit that it does depend more on the formation you choose, if you want wing-backs to push up field and operate correctly. (5-3-2, etc)
5) To be perfectly honest, i hardly use OTB, i find it to be more of a way to cheat when either playing human vs human or Cpu matches.
Although i do understand the reason & correct uses for it.
6) Yes the sweet spots are still there, but you,re getting a bit carried away with the 99% garanteed to score, bit. Especially when playing on the HIGHER levels, where keepers become better and you are given less time & space to pick your spot.
7) I wouldn,t say that all shots are at bullet speed, but it does still accure too often. Headers are far worse and some of the long range passes, imo.
It does sort of ruin the game though.
8) Once again i,d say that it could depend on the level that you are playing.
I get caught numerous times offside, as far as the centre circle at times.
I,ve also played the Cpu offside at the centre circle too, and had plenty of 1 on 1,s with the keeper after beating the trap.
9) I agree with you on this, but it has been sorted out in the UCL game.
10) Well i,ve sort of answered this in No8) But the Defence does sit back a bit too much in Fifa i,ll agree.
Makes no difference to me, as it still gets ripped apart when i,m attacking.
11) I Can,t see the point really ....If i want to Attack from the left, i,ll attack from the left, or the right etc.
Like i,ve said, You are in control of your play and movement, Not the AI as in PES.
12) Well the In Game Tactics has your playing Mentality, Attack / Defend / Neutral. which does sort of work, in a way...
13) I agree with this and No14) both are silly flaws, which have been corrected in UCL.
14) As above ...
15) Now we all know that the Fifa Midfields are too zonal and none existant in some cases, but correct timing & use of the Trigger run button will make your midfielders surge forward to assist attacks.
But we all know that this should happen naturally, and the Defence should move up with it. (Another silly flaw)
But once again, this has been corrected in the UCL game...
Now i know that Fifa05 is far from being perfect, but i don,t remember ever saying that it was.
But it,s not as bad as some people make it out to be.
PES & FIFA are 2 different styles of Football game... Where as Fifa is a more pick up & play Action based, End to End style of game ....
PES is a more Football strategy game, where in the higher levels you have to spend more time studying your opponent, and making tactical changes to your Team, formation, player AI movement, Marking duties, the weather conditions, and how long the grass is, on the pitch ... :funny:
So about 1/2 hour later, you might actualy get to play a match.
The only changes i make in Fifa, are the Formation, Players ( Depending on formation) and my attacking style, (Also depending on my own & oppositions formation) Which all takes about a minute, max.
Then it,s all down to me ... Not some pre-programmed AI ...
But i DO like PES, and i can appreciate why other people like it so much.
Shame it doesn,t have all of the proper licensed Teams, Leauges & Tournaments.
Oh and Realistic running animations. ----> = PES, 1-2
0
Only messing ...
. I hope all these things will be in FIFA 2006.
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