2010 FIFA World Cup Final: Netherlands v. Spain [P/R]

[Omi]

I didn't say it was nice, I said it was smart. And there is a WORLD of difference in the context of Melo's tackle and De Jong's. If you guys don't get that then I don't know what to tell you. In the 72nd minute of a quarter final, yeah, a ref will send a guy off for a disgraceful tackle. In the first half of the World Cup Final? Ehhhhhh.... probably not. I don't get why some of you don't understand that. The odds of him actually getting sent off are extremely low, and that's proven by the fact that he didn't get sent off.

It's a disgrace then, and the referee should show more steel. Iniesta's diving was pretty "clever" too, then, in that he wasn't caught- both were wrong, even if Iniesta's was slightly justified in light of the lenience shown against Dutch barbarism- but either way, is this the kind of football you want to see, from either side? If so, I hope they set up a separate sport for people like you, and the rest of us can continue to watch football.

And what exactly makes De Jong's challenge smart anyway? It was highly unnecessary, unless you're advocating the puncturing of Alonso's lungs as a fair enough tactic to employ, in which case, this discussion rather deflates in light of what you frankly astoundingly seem to think is and isn't acceptable, at least in the sport we call football, not your strange Martial Arts-inspired hybrid.

 

[emmer]

Stupid Spain fans, you clearly cannot fúcking read. ShiftyPowers is NOT “advocating” or supporting De Jong’s move. If you actually have a brain, try to use it before posting all that crap!

Shifty, I’m sorry, but the more you write, the more stupid people misunderstand what you mean.

 

[Daniel David]

I tend to side with Robbie in that the referee did a decent job considering the mess of a game he got thrown into. As Shifty mentioned, it was very unlikely that Webb would give someone a red early on; and he would be crucified just as much as he is being now - if not more - had he done it.

In any case, there is a very wise thing Robbie pointed out amidst all of the screaming here:

BTW, physical intimidation is just as bad as diving.

 

[Omi]

Stupid Spain fans, you clearly cannot fúcking read. ShiftyPowers is NOT “advocating” or supporting De Jong’s move. If you actually have a brain, try to use it before posting all that crap!

Shifty, I’m sorry, but the more you write, the more stupid people misunderstand what you mean.

I still don't understand why it's considered clever- I don't remember it being particularly crucial a challenge, and surely with something that outrageous, even the reffing-the-final reluctance might have been broken by it, on another day

 

[Sevillista]

Stupid Spain fans, you clearly cannot fúcking read. ShiftyPowers is NOT “advocating” or supporting De Jong’s move. If you actually have a brain, try to use it before posting all that crap!

Shifty, I’m sorry, but the more you write, the more stupid people misunderstand what you mean.

Really? Calling a play "smart" isn't advocating it in any way? That's not even the issue. ShiftyPowers sees violent play 1 (De Jong) and deems it intelligent on the grounds that the player can get away with it. ShiftyPowers sees diving play 2 (Iniesta diving) and deems it worthy of his hate because the player's trying to get away with it. These aren't "opinions", they're hypocrisies, because if ShiftyPowers truly couldn't tolerate the things he saw from Spain, he might as well stop watching soccer altogether.

What it all boils down to is bitterness that Spain won. Shifty and others hated Spain before the matches even started and looked for reasons to discredit them. Now that we've won the final you just look foolish and bitter.

 

[ausbarca]

I didn't say it was nice, I said it was smart. And there is a WORLD of difference in the context of Melo's tackle and De Jong's. If you guys don't get that then I don't know what to tell you. In the 72nd minute of a quarter final, yeah, a ref will send a guy off for a disgraceful tackle. In the first half of the World Cup Final? Ehhhhhh.... probably not. I don't get why some of you don't understand that. The odds of him actually getting sent off are extremely low, and that's proven by the fact that he didn't get sent off.

i get what that you're not advocating the challenge but it shouldn't necessarily matter how early it is in the game, if the tackle is bad enough (which it was, late and studs above/in line with the nipples) a player should be sent off whether it be the world cup final or sunday league amateurs. otherwise why dont more people just get all their hard/bookable offences done in the first fifteen twenty minutes if there's such a low chance of getting booked.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Really? Calling a play "smart" isn't advocating it in any way? That's not even the issue. ShiftyPowers sees violent play 1 (De Jong) and deems it intelligent on the grounds that the player can get away with it. ShiftyPowers sees diving play 2 (Iniesta diving) and deems it worthy of his hate because the player's trying to get away with it. These aren't "opinions", they're hypocrisies, because if ShiftyPowers truly couldn't tolerate the things he saw from Spain, he might as well stop watching soccer altogether.

What it all boils down to is bitterness that Spain won. Shifty and others hated Spain before the matches even started and looked for reasons to discredit them. Now that we've won the final you just look foolish and bitter.

They aren't hypocrisies because one is violent and the other is pussy. They are both bad and against the rules, but do you really not see how they are different? Really? I've been on a crusade against diving for most of my life; I don't like violent play, but I can see how it might be tactically appropriate to do it sometimes, and in my mind violent play is more respectable than pussy play. And I'm an American... gee it's almost like it makes too much sense.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

i get what that you're not advocating the challenge but it shouldn't necessarily matter how early it is in the game, if the tackle is bad enough (which it was, late and studs above/in line with the nipples) a player should be sent off whether it be the world cup final or sunday league amateurs. otherwise why dont more people just get all their hard/bookable offences done in the first fifteen twenty minutes if there's such a low chance of getting booked.

Yeah, the rule should be the same at any time, but it isn't applied the same way at all times. It was clear that in this context the red would not come out.

 

[Dytza]

But would you have something to blame on the referee if he would've applied the rules and give the red card to De Jong when he deserved it? I don't think so...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

But would you have something to blame on the referee if he would've applied the rules and give the red card to De Jong when he deserved it? I don't think so...

The point is that he didn't give a red card to De Jong because no ref in the world would send off a player that early in the World Cup Final.

 

[Dytza]

The point is that he didn't give a red card to De Jong because no ref in the world would send off a player that early in the World Cup Final.

I think many refs in the world would send off a player in the first half of a WC final for such a horrible tackle. :sKIp_E:

 

[emmer]

What it all boils down to is bitterness that Spain won. Shifty and others hated Spain before the matches even started and looked for reasons to discredit them. Now that we've won the final you just look foolish and bitter.

Sorry, man, but no. The “foolish” ones here are the Spain fans who insist to think “What it all boils down to is bitterness that Spain won”. Very childish, to say the least.

I don’t necessarily agree with Shifty, but to actually think he is acting the way you describe is just stupid. (There may be some who are really doing it that way, but not him, particularly.)

 

[Arnau]

The point is that he didn't give a red card to De Jong because no ref in the world would send off a player that early in the World Cup Final.

Haha, and you lost respect to Don Andrés because he "dive".

 

[emmer]

 

[Arnau]

Point is, if De jong almost broken Alonso's ribcage its smart and laudable but if Iniesta dives (debatable) he's an infamous cheater. I think he's being biased, he hate Spain NT for some reason, maybe because they win.

 

[night]

Point is, if De jong almost broken Alonso's ribcage its smart and laudable but if Iniesta dives (debatable) he's an infamous cheater. I think he's being biased, he hate Spain NT for some reason, maybe because they win.

I honestly never hate a team because they're winning and have no problem in accepting the fact that my team did not win a competition. I just don't like teams who are winners and also:
1) Employ a lot of dirty tricks (such as diving, imaginary card waving or constantly surrounding the ref after each offense) as an aid to achieving greatness.
2) Have a lot of arrogant fans who annoy the hell out of everyone when their team is winning and are sore losers if their team is on the losing end by not accepting defeat and making all sorts of excuses.
3) Play negative and tactical football and bore the hell out of a neutral when watching their matches.
Spain and Barcelona unfortunately fall in the first 2 categories (and I could almost classify Spain in the 3rd category with their boring possession football) for me which makes them difficult to be likable.

 

[Arnau]

Barça football its fantastic.
Spain were not as good as euro08 but we still see some good football in the second half against germany for example. Can't belive you think they play "dirty tricks" they only focus on play football! its the rival team who always try to destroy everything they create.

 

[Sevillista]

They aren't hypocrisies because one is violent and the other is pussy. They are both bad and against the rules, but do you really not see how they are different? Really? I've been on a crusade against diving for most of my life; I don't like violent play, but I can see how it might be tactically appropriate to do it sometimes, and in my mind violent play is more respectable than pussy play. And I'm an American... gee it's almost like it makes too much sense.

Both violence and diving "might be tactically appropriate to do it sometimes". The difference is that one can cause serious injury to another player, the other does not. You're on the wrong side here.

Sorry, man, but no. The “foolish” ones here are the Spain fans who insist to think “What it all boils down to is bitterness that Spain won”. Very childish, to say the least.

I don’t necessarily agree with Shifty, but to actually think he is acting the way you describe is just stupid. (There may be some who are really doing it that way, but not him, particularly.)

Use the "Find More Posts by ShiftyPowers" feature and you'll see that he is acting exactly as I describe.

But go ahead and keep calling me childish if it makes you feel better about the side you're taking.

 

[emmer]

No, Sevillista. You are ridiculously misunderstanding him.

See, I don’t agree with ShiftyPowers’s statement you just quoted (“violent play is more respectable&#8221. I’m glad Spain won the World Cup. I think Spain is currently the best national team. Casillas, Piqué, Xavi, Iniesta and Villa are on my best XI of this WC, and I like especially those two midfielders. I’d love to have them playing for my club.

This is not about taking sides (as your childish mind obviously makes you think it is). This is about knowing how to fúcking read. And those who can actually read know that ShiftyPowers is clearly not behaving the way you and other crazy Spain fans are bizarrely seeing – and that’s a pattern, by the way: apparently, only Spain fans are insistently misunderstanding him. Why? I’m not sure, but it seems to me they don’t know how to take criticism.

 

[Dytza]

I understand his dissatisfaction about Spanish players "diving". But he also says that "in my mind violent play is more respectable than pussy play". THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

Also Holland players also did those kind of things but I didn't see a single word about that from him. Why?! He already reconized he hate Spain NT just because of the annoying Barça fans on this forum (how childish...)

As an example of the violent but also "pussy play" from a Netherlands player (Robben):

Too bad I couldn't find a video of Mathisjen hitting the floor with the ball in front of the ref after Iniesta's goal. But yeah. Keep bitching about Spain... I don't know why we're still talking on this idiot subject. In fact the guy has a serious problem against Spain and he can't accept other opinions.